Would the Church baptize aliens if they come to Earth?

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john330 said:
There is no mutual exclusivity between a dogmatic god and life on other planets.
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I think there is an exclusivity between a dogmatic god and a majestic universe, dogmas in every religion seem to exclude god from his intelligent nature if he ever existed.
 
Protestor said:
I think maybe you should look at some of the language that is used in official catholic documents. One thing that comes to mind is that in the fourth section of the council of trent it says to preach the gospel to all creatures. This to me leaves open the possibility of preaching the gospel to other species if they can comprehend and needed saving. Even in famous passages like “for God so loved the world” I know that the normal implication here is our world, but it does not have to be. That is just the implied meaning maybe there is a mystery here yet to be revealed which is why the passage does not read “for God so loved only this world”
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Oh I think this is lovely! St. Francis preached to birds and St. Anthony preached to fishes and THEY responded. And what of Balaam’s donkey?

But, nope. I still don’t think their any intelligent life out there worth Baptism. So beam me up Scotty!

Glenda
 
Protestor said:
Correct me if I am wrong but the number of galaxies in the universe is approx 10^12. The number of estimated grains of sand on earth 10^20 to 10^24. The number of stars in the universe is approx 10^23 which would get you in the range of the grains of sand on earth
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Still an ultra huge number of planets out there, far more than earth sands, galaxies or stars.
 
LibralAteoJesus said:
I think there is an exclusivity between a dogmatic god and a majestic universe, dogmas in every religion seem to exclude god from his intelligent nature if he ever existed.
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I do not understand your proposition. Please lay out your proposition clearly so I can know how to best answer you. Things like dogmas exclude god from his intelligent nature make no sense to me. What do you mean by dogmatic God.
 
LibralAteoJesus said:
But to baptize them is to clean them from orginal sin and accept Jesus as savior to humans.

First: They may not have original sin.
Second: They aren’t humans from earth.
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The teaching of Jesus is universal:

“20 My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that **all **of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.”
 
Protestor said:
I do not understand your proposition. Please lay out your proposition clearly so I can know how to best answer you. Things like dogmas exclude god from his intelligent nature make no sense to me. What do you mean by dogmatic God.
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And please, libralateojesus, describe some dogmas that limit god from his intelligent nature. Would probably be best if you used actual catholic dogmas. Don’t say “the earth was created in 7 days” because this is not dogma. Thanks
 
Protestor said:
I do not understand your proposition. Please lay out your proposition clearly so I can know how to best answer you. Things like dogmas exclude god from his intelligent nature make no sense to me. What do you mean by dogmatic God.
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In every religion there is dogmatic rules which it’s followers follow.
These rules are changeable from a religion to another, sometimes they are the same sins but the punishments differ. These are the dogmatic rules that we think a god has given to humans to follow, if these rules are inconstant from a religion and a culture to another, then they come from humans and not from an intelligent designer.
As examples for dogmas, rules related to no masturbation, no homosexual marriage, women should cover their heads, you should not drink wine and the list is too long including the rules in religious books.
 
Hmmm…those are moral standards, not exactly doctrinal dogma. So is it moral standards in religion that bother you? These are what you consider to be limits of god’s intelligence?
 
Bothering me isn’t really a standard to base my thoughts on, but yes, these aren’t alone, including the doctrinal dogmas, the stories, magic, miracles, prophets, beliefs, gods, angels, demons, salvation, saints, heaven, hell, souls … and most of what is in the religious books, I don’t believe in a personal god or religion, for other scientific, rational and ethical reasons, I am also aware that truth isn’t always reassuring, however you might be able to see beauty in truth even if it may not appear reassuring at first.
 
I gotcha. Now would you please lay out your argument as to why a dogmatic god and an intelligent god are mutually exclusive? Perhaps you can convince me:cool:
 
I don’t have to convince you, could we please get back to the OP.
 
Sure buddy. So I don’t think that the op is relevant because travel through space to other stars seems to be impossible. If it were possible, communication between species would undoubtedly prove to be a time consuming hindrance to both species. That is, if they’re friendly. If they’re not friendly, it’s a good thing we have bombs!
 
LibralAteoJesus said:
Allow me to ask out of curiosity, how could you possibly accept this fact about the universe and yet believe in a dogmatic personal-religious god who sent his ‘son’ to save one of his many creations, do you believe that Jesus could have possibly died on other planets too?
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Because in my belief God is life in abundance - I will not limit Gods creation because I want to be the most important of his creation. We do not know for sure whats out there but the mathematics of probability with the over whelming numbers says there is life out there - and God did give me a brain to think.

I’m always reminded of what God said to Job in a nutshell - how can you with your tiny little human mind perceive my creation , my plan - who are you but a man.

And no I didn’t do the math on the grains of sand - I didn’t think it was necessary.
 
LibralAteoJesus said:
In every religion there is dogmatic rules which it’s followers follow.
These rules are changeable from a religion to another, sometimes they are the same sins but the punishments differ. These are the dogmatic rules that we think a god has given to humans to follow, if these rules are inconstant from a religion and a culture to another, then they come from humans and not from an intelligent designer.
As examples for dogmas, rules related to no masturbation, no homosexual marriage, women should cover their heads, you should not drink wine and the list is too long including the rules in religious books.
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I think your proposition is, if god has given rules for humans to follow those rules have to be consistent across all religions and cultures. If this is not what you are saying please help me understand your idea better.

I think christians would say that God has not revealed himself through other religions. God, according to christians, has only revealed himself through christianity even if we are not good at showing it at times. If non-christians do thing that are morally good it is only a recognition of what should be being done. Just because they have recognized moral good does not mean that God is revealing it through them.

Now if you are referring to differences in morality in-between christian sects then you have a better point. The problem with this is that at the end of the day catholics recognize other christians as christians. To prove this protestants are going to heaven even if they are use condoms and catholics are going to heaven even though they do not observe the sabbath.
What does this have to do with aliens? Do you understand? What question do you have about this? Why do you think God has reveled himself in or through all religions?
 
Protestor said:
Correct me if I am wrong but the number of galaxies in the universe is approx 10^12. The number of estimated grains of sand on earth 10^20 to 10^24. The number of stars in the universe is approx 10^23 which would get you in the range of the grains of sand on earth
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In all the above figures, substitute ‘known universe’ for ‘universe’. That is the visible universe. How much more there might be depends far too much on the cosmology that turns out to be correct for an estimate to be meaningful.

And that is without getting into the knotty question of multiverses.
 
john330 said:
Sure buddy. So I don’t think that the op is relevant because travel through space to other stars seems to be impossible. If it were possible, communication between species would undoubtedly prove to be a time consuming hindrance to both species. That is, if they’re friendly. If they’re not friendly, it’s a good thing we have bombs!
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To a culture that can cross the stars, our bombs would be no more than an annoyance.

I will believe in aliens when I visually see them. Personally, I don’t understand some people’s longing for them, as cuddly friendly Chewbacca’s or ET’s are far less likely than beings looking for colonial square mileage, zoo specimens, or slaves.

And I expect to be in Purgatory long before we are allowed to make “contact.” Such contact would only be devastating to human life in every way.

ICXC NIKA
 
DrTaffy said:
In all the above figures, substitute ‘known universe’ for ‘universe’. That is the visible universe. How much more there might be depends far too much on the cosmology that turns out to be correct for an estimate to be meaningful.

And that is without getting into the knotty question of multiverses.
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Those knots can wait until the existence of multiverses is established.

Don’t get the knots around your neck in the meantime.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
To a culture that can cross the stars, our bombs would be no more than an annoyance.

I will believe in aliens when I visually see them. Personally, I don’t understand some people’s longing for them, as cuddly friendly Chewbacca’s or ET’s are far less likely than beings looking for colonial square mileage, zoo specimens, or slaves.

And I expect to be in Purgatory long before we are allowed to make “contact.” Such contact would only be devastating to human life in every way.

ICXC NIKA
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Just had a funny thought. Imagine those who would be martyred and sainted through attempting to carry the gospel to aliens…like the priest in the war of the worlds movie…
 
GEddie said:
Those knots can wait until the existence of multiverses is established.
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Not if you are talking about possibilities. For example, the ‘fine tuning argument’ as often presented as a ‘proof’ of God tends to assume that there is only one Universe. As a ‘proof’ the burden of proof is explicitly on it to prove this assertion.

Equally, as a hypothesis, the various different concepts referred to as ‘multiverses’ don’t have to meet a burden of proof to be worthy of consideration, they just have to be possible and (in order to continue considering them) to have some explanatory benefit.

Swings and roundabouts - if your reasoning for not considering the existence of aliens relies on assuming that this is the only universe, then you need to consider the possibility of other universes if only to show that they do not exist.
 
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