WOuld the world be better off ig Christians Jews and Musilms were together?

[Frankenfurter]

That may happen when Jesus Christ [peace be upon him] returns; other than that, I don’t see it happening. We have differences and I’m OK with that.

I am OK with the differences too. There cannot be only one path to an infinite transcendent being.

But there are also commonalities. And these commonalities are far greater than most of the secular world understands.

The spirit of my question is in regards to how we (people who believe in God) interface with the secular world.

Right now, the average atheist or agnostic just sees that the major religions disagree but doesn’t see the commonality. This could change rather easily if we wanted it to.

 

[Frankenfurter]

Well…why are you pitting them against “the secular world”?

Why can’t we ALL be together and work and live in a unified way?

.

I am thinking of the average atheist or agnostic, or person who has no exposure to religion or theology and lives in a secular world. It seems to me that the view they see of Islam, Judaism and Christianity is that they are separate with little common ground.

So my question is, what if the average person saw a unified face from these religions. After all, if we are worshiping the same God then that is the first impression that someone should have. Then they can understand the differences from there.

But wouldn’t the world be better if those who worshiped the same God were conscious of how they look to others who are still searching? Maybe its a Catholic thing, but saving souls is part of doing the work of God.

When people are turned away from God in general by the conflicts they see between religions, doesn’t that keep them away from God?

 

[Abu]

Frankenfurter #22
I am OK with the differences too. There cannot be only one path to an infinite transcendent being.

No real Catholic can be “O.K. with the differences” that deny so much of what Christ mandated through His Church.

Right now, the average atheist or agnostic just sees that the major religions disagree but doesn’t see the commonality. This could change rather easily if we wanted it to.

The lack of “commonality” is likely what most keeps the “average atheist or agnostic” from seeing the reality of Christ and His Catholic Church which is made to appear just one among thousands.

 

[Servant19]

I am OK with the differences too. There cannot be only one path to an infinite transcendent being.

But there are also commonalities. And these commonalities are far greater than most of the secular world understands.

The spirit of my question is in regards to how we (people who believe in God) interface with the secular world.

Right now, the average atheist or agnostic just sees that the major religions disagree but doesn’t see the commonality. This could change rather easily if we wanted it to.

No truer words can be said.

For me, it is up to us “believers in God” to show those that do not have faith, that belief in God is more fruitful for humanity than the no belief in God.

Humility is a key aspect to this, and a sign of this is what you stated dear Frankenfurter, that "There cannot be only one path to an infinite transcendent being."

Unfortunately this statement is not shared by all adherents of religions, and this requires tremendous work by those that do believe in your priceless statement

.

 

[Abu]

The rubbish that any religion is as good as any other denies the Godhead of the Blessed Trinity and the reality of Christ’s formation of His Catholic Church is unable to discern truth from error, and thus wallows in an anything goes euphoria.

Salvation – Extra ecclesia nulla salus.
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – these too may achieve eternal salvation.”

Popes knew this from St Clement through Pius IX to John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Pope St Clement I, wrote in about 95 A.D. to the Church in Corinth: “Those who repented for their sins, appeased God in praying and received salvation, even though they were aliens to God.” Catholic Apologetics Today, 1986, Fr William G Most, p 145].

From Pope Pius IX
"By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood. Nevertheless, equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion, are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, land, native talents, and so many other factors" (Singulari Quidem, 1863 A.D.). Hence, Pius IX distinguished between those who have knowledge of the Church and Her divine foundation, and those who have no such knowledge due to a number of mitigating circumstances.
[My emphasis].

 

[Servant19]

The rubbish that any religion is as good as any other denies the Godhead of the Blessed Trinity and the reality of Christ’s formation of His Catholic Church is unable to discern truth from error, and thus wallows in an anything goes euphoria.

Salvation – Extra ecclesia nulla salus.
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – these too may achieve eternal salvation.”

Popes knew this from St Clement through Pius IX to John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Pope St Clement I, wrote in about 95 A.D. to the Church in Corinth: “Those who repented for their sins, appeased God in praying and received salvation, even though they were aliens to God.” Catholic Apologetics Today, 1986, Fr William G Most, p 145].

From Pope Pius IX
“By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood. Nevertheless, equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion, are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, land, native talents, and so many other factors” (Singulari Quidem, 1863 A.D.). Hence, Pius IX distinguished between those who have knowledge of the Church and Her divine foundation, and those who have no such knowledge due to a number of mitigating circumstances.
[My emphasis].

Look at the fruits Abu

If it produces godly fruits, then the religion cannot be treated as “rubbish”…it surely is a means by which others have found sacredness and righteous relationship with their Creator, and therefore perfectly valid in the eyes of God.

.

 

[Tomdstone]

So let us all be humble and assess for a time if this approach reduces the disease spreading problem of promiscuity?

I sincerely believe that if children are taught from early childhood with loving discipline the importance of chastity and the scientifically proven problems associated with promiscuity we would have plenty of optimistic progress.

There are some things in society that can be empirically proven to be A+B = C. Some things are not, so we must, with unity, carry out what the majority recommend after careful consultation and exploration of the subject and then learn from it. Look at the outcomes and with humility adjust if needed.

Science can be an important tool for the spiritual healing of our planet and mankind. Science can bring religions together if there is humility and a willingness to learn based on clear and empirically evident outcomes.

.

Humility is great and peaceful solutions are something we should all be working for. I certainly favor that. The problem is the situation that exists in the real world where jihadists are going around storming schools and slaughtering innocent children. We have seen these extremists recently in a Pakistan park murdering children.

 

[Abu]

Servant19 #27
If it produces godly fruits, then the religion cannot be treated as “rubbish”…

The rubbish is your argument – the mirage that one religion is as good as another.

That ignores the uniqueness of the Triune God who established His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with the fullness of His Truth.

 

[worldcitizen]

I think when we talk about unity of religion we must think God. If we look at what the followers of religions have done throughout the ages many would turn away from religion completely.

But if we look at God Who provides for us by giving us the sun and the rain and fields to grow our crops and animals as an assistance and now so much technology and showered upon both the good and the bad alike then we can have some unity.

God loves us all unconditionally. He doesn’t say He only loves the Jew, or Christian or Buddhist or Hindu but He is the Father of all humanity and why does He treat us all with such an indiscrimatrory love? An unconditional love? That we might learn it from Him to love others in the same fashion regardless of their faith, nationality or race but as sons of the same one Father.

If we can look at how God loves us and not look at each other then we can be united and live in peace. The whole of Israel does not accept Christ yet look at how God has blest it with milk and honey and made it a most special place. His love is infinite and not conditioned upon what the Jews did to Christ.

Yes we must protect our societies from the ruthless killers and tyrants but most people are not such but just average people and so we should love and welcome all and pray in all their churches and promote love to all and be unconditional in our love like God Himself is.

 

[Servant19]

The rubbish is your argument – the mirage that one religion is as good as another.

That ignores the uniqueness of the Triune God who established His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church with the fullness of His Truth.

Thank you for your kindness

May I remind you that all religions proclaim a uniqueness…

God bless you!

.

 

[Servant19]

Humility is great and peaceful solutions are something we should all be working for. I certainly favor that. The problem is the situation that exists in the real world where jihadists are going around storming schools and slaughtering innocent children. We have seen these extremists recently in a Pakistan park murdering children.

Indeed I agree. In extremist regions we do have a problem.

The problem of death being instigated directly or indirectly is a concern in Islamic and Westernized countries.

Our stubborness and lack of humility to “stick with” our traditions to an extreme level is societally damaging.

In Pakistan that manifests in the killing of children maybe. In Western countries it manifests in alcohol related death and destruction, in unbridled materialism and injustice. Disintegrative forces exist everywhere, Tom. What we need to do is try to eliminate them in our own communities, through the education of such values in our children, enabling community development and growth from generation to generation, and then hope that this shining example of community life can be adopted by other communities where a longing desire to shed the lethargies of disintegration can be realised in favour of something more integrative and constructive.

How does that sound?

.

 

[Tomdstone]

Our stubborness and lack of humility to “stick with” our traditions to an extreme level is societally damaging.

In Pakistan that manifests in the killing of children maybe. In Western countries it manifests in alcohol related death and destruction, in unbridled materialism and injustice. Disintegrative forces exist everywhere, Tom. What we need to do is try to eliminate them in our own communities, through the education of such values in our children, enabling community development and growth from generation to generation, and then hope that this shining example of community life can be adopted by other communities where a longing desire to shed the lethargies of disintegration can be realised in favour of something more integrative and constructive.

How does that sound?

.

It sounds great as far as it goes. We have to dedicate ourselves to finding peaceful and constructive solutions. I am all for peace, prosperity, happiness, humility, kindness, charity, good will, gentleness, love. But if jihadists do not reciprocate to your loving and peaceful intentions, but on the contrary are intent on chopping off your head and murdering your children and the children of others, then perhaps different measures are called for.

 

[Servant19]

It sounds great as far as it goes. We have to dedicate ourselves to finding peaceful and constructive solutions. I am all for peace, prosperity, happiness, humility, kindness, charity, good will, gentleness, love. But if jihadists do not reciprocate to your loving and peaceful intentions, but on the contrary are intent on chopping off your head and murdering your children and the children of others, then perhaps different measures are called for.

Let’s do all of those things

We just showed how it could happen btw

Now go out and spread the word, start the process and let’s be the agents of action rather than forum talkers

Love to you and your loved ones dear friend …

.

 

[Frankenfurter]

There have been places in the world where they actually did live together in harmony for long periods of time…I watched a program Rick Steves Europe one time where in Spain they did just that .not sure of anywhere nowadays though

OK. So what is the cause of that lack of harmony? Can we identify it?

I propose that it is the media. Or generally, those who profit from and promote conflict.

 

[Frankenfurter]

Let’s do all of those things

We just showed how it could happen btw

Now go out and spread the word, start the process and let’s be the agents of action rather than forum talkers

Love to you and your loved ones dear friend …

.

I am reminded of how my children sometimes fight and compete with one another, but I love them both.

So I am also looking for the cause of the divisions. In my case, so I can at least not be the cause of unnecessary fighting (some of course is necessary).

I am trying not to cast blame, but I have to point out that the fighting between Religions causes many to turn from God entirely. And this is something that we of all faiths cannot accept.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

I have read on many threads that Christians Jews and Muslims all worship the same God.

Would the world be better off (in the long run) if we were all together and had a unified message to the secular world?

I think the answer is yes.

So what prevents it? Is it internal politics?

Hi Frank,

Good thread idea,

Presently there is unity between some # of Jews, Muslims and Christians in basically every country in the world except maybe the secular Atheist state of North Korea. In North Korea afaik your not allowed to have any religion even in the privacy of your own home.

Through improved policies of the sovereign nations of earth and of the United Nations…as well as movements on Social media…we can unite *more * Jews, Muslims and Christians. By uniting more practicing Jews, Muslims, and Christians to live in peace… we are uniting half of if not more then half of the world population. The true teachings of Islam, Judaism and Christianity are noble teachings.

There are Jews, Muslims and Christians whom are criminals, whom have committed violent acts in what they say is the name of their religion…these folks are criminals and they do not represent their religion in a correct manner.

What we must do is get the message out to all people whether they be Arab Muslims, Euro Jews, American Christians, Chinese Atheists…or w/e type of person…that living in peace is the best way to go.

What we as Christians can do is we need to remind our Christian brothers to not let the actions of intolerant people represent an entire group. As Christians we might look at ISIL and say…why is Islam bad…but thats a wrong approach. As Christians we should look at ISIL as an evil group…and we should say that the Muslims who team up with Christians to defeat ISIL are the true followers of Islam. Its the same for our Jewish and Muslim brothers…our Jewish and Muslim brothers need to remind their brethren to not let the actions of intolerant people from another group represent that entire group of people.

Some may say…*come on look at ISIL and the middle east, its a powder keg… .how is more unity possible between Muslims, Jews, and Christians. *

Well in response to those types of comments I say look no further back then WW2…which was one of the most challenging times in all of human history. During WW2 many folks were saying that Europe will never be the same…that the Third Reich is going to get its way. Well in response to the Third Reich which included mostly Christians…we saw on the allied side Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, and more team up to remove the Third Reich from Europe. Some 60 million people died in WW2, but the allies thank God got the job done and through teamwork the allies were able to defeat the Third Reich. Through team work…folks are working to defeat ISIL(an all Sunni Muslim group) and make the middle east more united…so we need to do what we can as Catholics to support tolerate and honorable people in the fight against ISIL.

 

[Bill_Martin]

The rubbish that any religion is as good as any other denies the Godhead of the Blessed Trinity and the reality of Christ’s formation of His Catholic Church is unable to discern truth from error, and thus wallows in an anything goes euphoria.

Salvation – Extra ecclesia nulla salus.
“Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – these too may achieve eternal salvation.”

Popes knew this from St Clement through Pius IX to John Paul II and Benedict XVI.

Pope St Clement I, wrote in about 95 A.D. to the Church in Corinth: “Those who repented for their sins, appeased God in praying and received salvation, even though they were aliens to God.” Catholic Apologetics Today, 1986, Fr William G Most, p 145].

From Pope Pius IX
“By Faith it is to be firmly held that outside the Apostolic Roman Church none can achieve salvation. This is the only ark of salvation. He who does not enter into it will perish in the flood. Nevertheless, equally certainly it is to be held that those who suffer from invincible ignorance of the true religion, are not for this reason guilty in the eyes of the Lord. Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, land, native talents, and so many other factors” (Singulari Quidem, 1863 A.D.). Hence, Pius IX distinguished between those who have knowledge of the Church and Her divine foundation, and those who have no such knowledge due to a number of mitigating circumstances.
[My emphasis].

Saying that any religion is as good as another is not what the OP is suggesting. There are plenty of ways Christians, Jews, and Muslims can promote a common message that does not imply in any way an elimination of the distinctions between the three faiths. For example, messages promoting peace, loving your neighbor, respect for life, respect for religious freedom, etc are found in all three religions.

To band together and promote these messages in unison does not mean that anyone is claiming there is no difference between the religions or that salvation is found wherever you want to find it.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

The question that comes up all the time and virtually never answered, or answered well, about Christians who wage war and even terrorism as was seen in Northern Ireland, the War in Lebanon back in the 80’s (re: the Sabra and Shatilla massacre of Moslems, 1982), also the 1995 killing of 8000 Moslem men in Srebrenica, is were they fulfilling a moral code or were they violating one? Of course, they were going against what Christ taught!

Kill the Kafir (unbeliever) or a Jew who hides behind a stone, well,what are we to make of that? Also that whole world needs to be claimed for Islam for restore the Caliphate.

It’s a really big problem, compounded by the sheer numbers of those who subscribe to such extremism, if we are saying this is not mainstream. If only 1% out of 1 billion believers take that seriously then that’s only 10 million! OK, let’s be merciful and say, .1%, that is still one million.

This is to give just a bird’s eye view of what is going on in the enclaves of Europe where there is an estimated 44 million and projected to be 58 million by 2030. If we are talking about, again, only 1% of them being extremist nut cases, then you still have 440,000. Only .1% comes to 44,000. Even one goofball with a gun or bomb is one too many.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

Because of past history and the present tension between the groups existing in the world today. It is difficult to work with someone who is threatening to chop off your head. I am not too enthusiastic about working with “people” who invade a school in Beslan and end up slaughtering hundreds of innocent school children.

Those folks who committed the attacks in Beslan are criminals just like members of the Third Reich were criminals. As Frederick Douglass said…'I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Most Muslims, Jews, and Christians of today would not unite with the likes of the folks who did the shootings in Beslan.

 

[HolyCrusader007]

The question that comes up all the time and virtually never answered, or answered well, about Christians who wage war and even terrorism as was seen in Northern Ireland, the War in Lebanon back in the 80’s (re: the Sabra and Shatilla massacre of Moslems, 1982), also the 1995 killing of 8000 Moslem men in Srebrenica, is were they fulfilling a moral code or were they violating one? Of course, they were going against what Christ taught!

Kill the Kafir (unbeliever) or a Jew who hides behind a stone, well,what are we to make of that? Also that whole world needs to be claimed for Islam for restore the Caliphate.

It’s a really big problem, compounded by the sheer numbers of those who subscribe to such extremism, if we are saying this is not mainstream. If only 1% out of 1 billion believers take that seriously then that’s only 10 million! OK, let’s be merciful and say, .1%, that is still one million.

This is to give just a bird’s eye view of what is going on in the enclaves of Europe where there is an estimated 44 million and projected to be 58 million by 2030. If we are talking about, again, only 1% of them being extremist nut cases, then you still have 440,000. Only .1% comes to 44,000. Even one goofball with a gun or bomb is one too many.

Hello,

WW2 is the example I think you should have used because in WW2 most of those who fight on the axis side were Christians. 60 million people died in WW2 because of the Third Reichs actions.

Today we see that many have died because of ISILs actions but the # is nowhere near as many as 60 million. Also ISIL has about 30,000 fighters and another 1-3 million Sunnis living in and supporting ISIL lands. The Third Reich had millions of fighters and many many more supporters when compared to the support ISIL has today.

Lets also look at Judaism for a brief moment. In Judaism we see how King David was a warrior. In Islam, we see in Muhammad a warrior. What strikes me though is how Muhammad carried the very sword that David took from Golaith. Muhammad led a life very similar to that of King David. So their is a misunderstanding that some folks have when they read verses in the Quran that might include fighting. I do not accept Jews who try and claim that all Christians are goyim or slaves or Jews, and I do not accept Muslims who try and claim that all Christians are Kafir, or slaves. I know that their are Jews and Muslims who speak positively of Christians and do so because they say this is what Islam teaches.

Good Christians, Muslims and Jews teamed up to fight against the Third Reich and the Third reich was mostly Christian. There are probably less intolerant Muslims in todays world when compared to intolerant Christians during the times of WW2. So because a force as powerful as the Third Reich was defeated…ISIL can definitely be defeated. Once we defeat ISIL…more unity is going to come to the ME and really more unity is going to come to the world.