Would this be considered scandal?

[pianoplayingmom]

A male friend of mine brings a female friend of his to Sunday Mass at his parish. They sit together. They receive Holy Communion side by side. (Their parish has a Communion rail.) The two of them are considered married (to other people) in the eyes of the Church. He’s been divorced for several years. She’s not divorced but she is separated. Neither has applied for an annulment. (The priests at his parish have been strongly encouraging him to get his annulment papers in. He’s been “working on them” for at least a year.) He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

 

[The_Stig]

No, you’re not too rigid. They need to do things in the right order or they’re liable to be setting themselves up for even more problems and heartache, as well as being a source of scandal.

 

[mmplps7783]

A male friend of mine brings a female friend of his to Sunday Mass at his parish. They sit together. They receive Holy Communion side by side. (Their parish has a Communion rail.) The two of them are considered married (to other people) in the eyes of the Church. He’s been divorced for several years. She’s not divorced but she is separated. Neither has applied for an annulment. (The priests at his parish have been strongly encouraging him to get his annulment papers in. He’s been “working on them” for at least a year.) He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

If you have to ask then you already know the answer.

 

[maslibertad]

He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating.

Well it is (scandal) because you are asking. The fact that he says that there is no sexual action is really good obviously however it means that there i
s probably some attraction to each other and maybe even a good relationship. A relationship in which of course they should be discerning marriage because such a relationship (no matter how chaste) should always have the final intention of marriage. So it is best that they file for annulment in order to establish that marriage is indeed an option for them in the future.

 

[Rose71]

I am sorry but I have to disagree to a large extent.

How exactly are you defining a ‘relationship’? Perhaps because it is such a nebulous term, it is bound to cause some confusion.

These are 2 people who have a strong bond of friendship and they choose to share the Mass together. Surely if their priest is working with them and encouraging them to apply for annulments and their relationship is chaste there is no scandal.

Am I causing scandal when I go to work every day because I have developed some really strong friendships through my work and through my voluntary work and my social life. Many of these are with men - I have slept with none of them, but I do value their company and I would say we have a very strong bond.

I feel your post is devaluing the beauty and power of friendship. It is a gift to be treasured in its own right.

I generally end up attending Mass by myself and it can be a very lonely experience. When I first joined the parish, after a few weeks a lady who was maybe not much older than me made such a fuss about me being new and insisted I was ‘welcomed’ properly. That was until she asked me what I did for a living and whether I was married. Talk about feeling judged I work outdoors on conservation projects and I am single with no children. She has not spoken to me since - and believe me, the look of utter incomprehension on her face said it all

I have a very good male friend. We talked about starting a relationship but although we share the same values and get along very well - we are not called to marry one another by any stretch of the imagination.There is no chemistry and our interests and views on some issues outside moral theology are too different. However, I have been to Mass with him. I even sat next to him and it made the Mass a more fulfilling experience because I was sharing it with a true friend who understood why I attended.

Please, do not judge other people so harshly. It is terribly unfair. Be happy that these friends actually make the effort to go to Mass and are talking to their priest.

 

[puzzleannie]

AHe said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

there is only scandal in the eyes of those looking for scandal.

although he owes you no explanation, he gave one.

we fall back on Miss Manners and Emily Post and traditional etiquette, which dictates we do not presume to know ANYTHING about the private lives of friends and aquaintances, and what we do know, we put upon it the most charitable possible interpretation (which is also Christian charity btw).

if there happens to be matter for confession in the lives of your fellow parishioners, that is between them and the priest. NOMB

details of this man’s private life, and annulment status (how can he be seeking an annulment if he is married as you state) should not be known by ANY other parishioner. If you got those details from the priest, the priest is guilty of a grave offense, but I assume it is common gossip merely, a sure destroyer of healthy parish life.

Please let me know where your parish is so I can make sure, should I visit, so sit only alone or with my husband, not with my sister, female friend or mother in law (or you will naturally assume we are lesbians) or with my brother, a male neighbor who gave me a ride, or any other male (as you will naturally assume any two people who sit together at Mass are engaged in a wild sexual fling). In fact, I will just sit by myself in a pew so as not to cause scandal.

 

[StCsDavid]

A male friend of mine brings a female friend of his to Sunday Mass at his parish. They sit together. They receive Holy Communion side by side. (Their parish has a Communion rail.) The two of them are considered married (to other people) in the eyes of the Church. He’s been divorced for several years. She’s not divorced but she is separated. Neither has applied for an annulment. (The priests at his parish have been strongly encouraging him to get his annulment papers in. He’s been “working on them” for at least a year.) He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

I just have to ask…why is any of this your business? And why would the priest share these intimate details with you? I find that way more scandalous than two people who may or may not be doing things in the proper order.

 

[thistle]

A male friend of mine brings a female friend of his to Sunday Mass at his parish. They sit together. They receive Holy Communion side by side. (Their parish has a Communion rail.) The two of them are considered married (to other people) in the eyes of the Church. He’s been divorced for several years. She’s not divorced but she is separated. Neither has applied for an annulment. (The priests at his parish have been strongly encouraging him to get his annulment papers in. He’s been “working on them” for at least a year.) He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

I’m curious as to how you know all these details and also why this is any of your business!

 

[BillP]

Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

Do you assume that every time two people of the opposite sex appear at mass together they’re fornicators?

Do you assume that two males going to mass together were engaged in a homosexual relationship?

Do you assume that every single married couple in your parish who has been married for more than 9 months without children is contracepting?

I don’t know about rigid, but you might want to consider whether you are wanting in Charity.

 

[mmplps7783]

A male friend of mine brings a female friend of his to Sunday Mass at his parish. They sit together. They receive Holy Communion side by side. (Their parish has a Communion rail.) The two of them are considered married (to other people) in the eyes of the Church. He’s been divorced for several years. She’s not divorced but she is separated. Neither has applied for an annulment. (The priests at his parish have been strongly encouraging him to get his annulment papers in. He’s been “working on them” for at least a year.) He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

Earlier when I said, “if you have to ask you already know the answer” I was talking about when you asked if you were being too rigid. I can’t even begin to fathom why you believe it is any of your business anyway. He is just your friend not your son or your husband (or is that the problem?). What difference does it make if they were sitting side by side and took communion. If he were to bring one of his male friends to church and they took communion would that make him a homosexual? Think about what is making you upset. Not everyone holds the same veiws as you. Is his friend even catholic?

 

[forever_always]

I just have to ask…why is any of this your business? And why would the priest share these intimate details with you? I find that way more scandalous than two people who may or may not be doing things in the proper order.

If you read the original post, she said “A male friend of mine…” i didn’t see where she said that the priest shared intimate details? it seems to me that she knows about the man’s life. /shrug

 

[forever_always]

A male friend of mine brings a female friend of his to Sunday Mass at his parish. They sit together. They receive Holy Communion side by side. (Their parish has a Communion rail.) The two of them are considered married (to other people) in the eyes of the Church. He’s been divorced for several years. She’s not divorced but she is separated. Neither has applied for an annulment. (The priests at his parish have been strongly encouraging him to get his annulment papers in. He’s been “working on them” for at least a year.) He said they are only friends; there is nothing sexual going on between them. I wonder if it would be considered scandalous for two married people to be going to Mass together because it could look like they are dating. Am I being too rigid in my thinking?

I can see how you think this would be scandelous… however, there is nothing wrong with two people attending mass together. I would encourage your friends to finish their annulment papers though…

 

[Newbie2]

there is only scandal in the eyes of those looking for scandal.

although he owes you no explanation, he gave one.

we fall back on Miss Manners and Emily Post and traditional etiquette, which dictates we do not presume to know ANYTHING about the private lives of friends and aquaintances, and what we do know, we put upon it the most charitable possible interpretation (which is also Christian charity btw).

if there happens to be matter for confession in the lives of your fellow parishioners, that is between them and the priest. NOMB

details of this man’s private life, and annulment status (how can he be seeking an annulment if he is married as you state) should not be known by ANY other parishioner. If you got those details from the priest, the priest is guilty of a grave offense, but I assume it is common gossip merely, a sure destroyer of healthy parish life.

dittos. It’s not scandal. Please don’t make it one.

 

[pianoplayingmom]

Thanks everyone. This man is a close friend of mine. He was the one who shared all these details with me. Interestingly, he went to two priests for spiritual guidance on this issue after we’d talked about it…you see, one of the priests almost refused him Communion last Sunday and I said MAYBE it was because HE thought it was scandal. Scandal really wasn’t my judgment when we were discussing it. (I think I might have written it wrong here, implying it was my judgment…) I was just offering an explanation for the action of the priest. Anyway, my friend went to that particular priest and another. That priest told him, yes, it was very much scandal because it looked like they were presenting themselves as a married couple and what does that say to his children and to his wife? He urged him to get going on the annulment process. The other priest was more compassionate in that he said they have a beautiful friendship and he saw nothing wrong with them coming together to worship God. After praying about it, my friend decided he was going to continue taking his friend to Mass because they really aren’t doing anything wrong. I concurred with his decision…even though some of you might think it is none of my business and I shouldn’t even have an opinion on it. My friend appreciated my support.

 

[Rose71]

Thank you for posting again to clarify the first post!
Well done for supporting your friend.
Of course it is absolutely right that the Catholic Church places a lot of emphasis on family life and marriage, but those of us who are not lucky enough to have found a spouse and produced children or whose marriages have not been a success can so easily feel isolated.We do rely on friendships possibly more than couples and I think we often value friendship much more in general.
Having the reassurance of close male friends who I know I can really talk to and who enjoy spending time with me without it being conditional on a physical relationship is probably what has kept me from just going out and finding someone-anyone to start a full sexual relationship outside marriage just because I need the companionship and with too many men that is the condition.
I was really disgusted by the post (not OP) that suggested such a strong friendship is wrong -actually they are important and very very right; they provide reassurance that there are genuine people out there who love their fellow humans in the widest sense.
The sad thing is that I have found my friends among men who are in the main nonRC and even not churchgoers.
Thanks again for eplaining your 1st post OP

 

[Lee_M]

Does it sound wrong that there are politicians who publicly support abortion and bishops are giving them communion yet there is a priest who is judging someone coming to Mass with a friend as being scandelous and almost refuses him communion?

To be one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, we sure have different standards. I know it depends on the individual priest and bishop, but to even judge someone for coming to Mass with a friend, indirectly accusing them of an affair really seems wrong. To give communion to a known abortion supporter sounds even worse. I apologize. I’m not trying to de-rail the thread. It’s just an observation.

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

Gentle Inquisitor,

Forgive me. Did you say that every Sunday they were dressing in their hotel room and then going downstairs to nourish themselves at the breakfast bar? Are they imbibing bloody Mary’s or the Blood of Christ? :banghead:

From your perspective they are damned no matter what they do.

Life is hard, and often cruel. Why they are divorced, God knows. I’ve helped friends through the annulment process. It is searing in its capacity to make one come to terms with what for many has been the greatest failure of their lives. They often go about this process by fits and starts. If that helps to offer another perspective on the gentleman’s not getting his paper work in to the tribunal on a timeline that would be pleasing to those for whom it is none of their business.

Two hurting people, who may love one another and want to seek comfort and solace in one another’s arms seek rather to fortify themselves at the Table of the Lord, nourishing themselves on the Eucharist . And rather than you reaching out in love, you sit in judgment of sins that probably exist nowhere else than in your own mind.

Jesus forgave those who committed sexual sins. He was warm and loving in his response toward them. Not so the self-righteous.

Get to confession soon and work on this. Then reach out in love to these two. Help them. Love them. Maybe they’re just good friends. Maybe they’ll soon be married. Maybe you’ll be invited.

 

[Lee_M]

Gentle Inquisitor,

Forgive me. Did you say that every Sunday they were dressing in their hotel room and then going downstairs to nourish themselves at the breakfast bar? Are they imbibing bloody Mary’s or the Blood of Christ? :banghead:

From your perspective they are damned no matter what they do.

Life is hard, and often cruel. Why they are divorced, God knows. I’ve helped friends through the annulment process. It is searing in its capacity to make one come to terms with what for many has been the greatest failure of their lives. They often go about this process by fits and starts. If that helps to offer another perspective on the gentleman’s not getting his paper work in to the tribunal on a timeline that would be pleasing to those for whom it is none of their business.

Two hurting people, who may love one another and want to seek comfort and solace in one another’s arms seek rather to fortify themselves at the Table of the Lord, nourishing themselves on the Eucharist . And rather than you reaching out in love, you sit in judgment of sins that probably exist nowhere else than in your own mind.

Jesus forgave those who committed sexual sins. He was warm and loving in his response toward them. Not so the self-righteous.

Get to confession soon and work on this. Then reach out in love to these two. Help them. Love them. Maybe they’re just good friends. Maybe they’ll soon be married. Maybe you’ll be invited.

Did you read the entire thread?

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

Did you read the entire thread?

OOPS!! I only read the initial question:tsktsk: :tsktsk: :doh2:

I won’t do that again

Pianoplayingmom, I beg your pardon. I’m taking myself out to the woodshed now. :imsorry:

 

[pianoplayingmom]

OOPS!! I only read the initial question:tsktsk: :tsktsk: :doh2:

I won’t do that again

Pianoplayingmom, I beg your pardon. I’m taking myself out to the woodshed now. :imsorry:

It’s okay, Gerard. You may come out of the woodshed now. I promise there will be no 40 lashes for you. For everyone else, you may be interested to know that this man and I have declared our love for one another and hope one day that our friendship will be allowed to come to fruition within a marriage context. We have promised each other that we will help one another get to heaven. (THAT promise has held us in good stead through many a hearty row! The Holy Spirit always helps us work through things and brings us back together to dwell in His love, peace and joy once more.) He lives in a different city than I do and the friend he takes to Mass has been struggling with lots of things, the most recent being the death of her sister from cancer. I have complete confidence that my dear friend is ministering to her in the most godly ways. (They were friends way before he and I met…) He is the most remarkable man I have ever met, always wanting to draw closer to God, always including Him in every aspect of His life, hungering for God in ways I have rarely seen. He and I pray together and we marvel at God’s goodness in bringing us to each other’s life. How blessed we are! I often say, if this is all we will have in this life (friendship without marriage), it is enough. We try to stay focused on today and leave our future to God’s care.