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dumspirospero
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pm1853
Guest
Its not that you’re pointing out the abuses. Its just that almost all (if not all) of these pictures have been posted on this site, and the alleged “cheesehead mass” has been explained already. I challenge ANYONE to post valid evidence that refutes the previous “Cheeshead Mass” thread (I’m sure there was more than 1 person at that mass). Thats an open challenge for anyone on this web-site. Show me valid evidence that he wore that Cheesehead for more than a moment in jest during the homily.Don’t worry…I am getting flamed pretty bad for this one.I am now officially a Rad Trad because I was pointing out some abuses…I never said that abuses were not possible or never happen at a TLM…I was just making a point that the abuses I pointed out would NEVER happen at a TLM…granted, I have heard of stories where Priest would go through a Mass in 20 Minutes, etc…yeah, it has its abuses, but no one would ever pull some of the stunts in the pictures I posted.
As for the other pictures, I’ve seen them, most of us have seen them, and most of us are upset by them. It happens. What are you going to do about it? Here’s another open challenge. If you are upset by something that happens at mass…SAY SOMETHING TO SOMEONE! The Pastor! The Head of the Deanery! The Bishop! Someone. Wonderful though this forum may be, I have my doubts that it is reaching the wider Catholic audience.
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dumspirospero
Guest
He did not celebrate Mass on a kayak by choice…they were forced to do that, because they would have been killed if they were caught celbrating Mass…If he was able to worship free from persecution, he would have done so at a true Church…
Originally Posted by RCMom
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I also just heard on the Today show (they were discussing a LIFE magazine tribute to JPII) that as a priest, Father Wojtyla would conduct mass on kayak/camping trips for his youth groups using two crossed oars as an altar. When a typical church wasn’t available, he still felt it was important to celebrate the mass. And what a great message to the youth he was leading - to show them that Jesus is always present, and we can pray to/worship with him ANYWHERE!*
Originally Posted by RCMom
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I also just heard on the Today show (they were discussing a LIFE magazine tribute to JPII) that as a priest, Father Wojtyla would conduct mass on kayak/camping trips for his youth groups using two crossed oars as an altar. When a typical church wasn’t available, he still felt it was important to celebrate the mass. And what a great message to the youth he was leading - to show them that Jesus is always present, and we can pray to/worship with him ANYWHERE!*
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chicago
Guest
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps this was a Mass for circus performers being celebrated before or between their shows (when they practically speaking had to be in costume) on a Sunday to make sure that they could worship and receive the Lord?
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
Im pretty sure it was done on purpose. However I still dont know where they were taken and if most of the pictures are genuine.
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dumspirospero
Guest
Did you ever stop to think that these people are just irreverant Catholics trying to butcher the Mass?
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chicago:
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chicago
Guest
Well, if you can prove that to me, fine. What I know is that the Catholic Church does have an established circus ministry. I also recognize that sometimes a priest will have a Mass for people who are about to perform in some sort of play or other event where it might be a practical necessity for them to be in costume and makeup at the time of the service. Finally, I know that there are people who like to take all kinds of things out of context and use them to try to prove some point. So, unless you can defintively document ill will or something along that line, I don’t think that we ought to do anything but give the benefit of the doubt here about why this was done.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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All I can say is
After all, that would be the christian thing to do.
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AuntMartha
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It’s not a mass for circus performers. This church actually has a “Clown Ministry”. This Christ the King Church, Pleasant Hill, California, Fr. Brian Joyce, Pastor .
See the homepage here:
ctkph.org/index.html
And the "Clown Ministry page here:
ctkph.org/clown.html
On that page, it says that the clown group “participates
in occasional parish liturgies”.
Aunt Martha
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maendem
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Good grief–do you really expect to provoke a thoughtful, critical discussion based on a loose, unatributed hodgepodge of undated pictures?
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chicago
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Thank you! Very informative.
However, can you show that it is necessarily a bad thing?
It does mention that they “participate in liturgies”. Ok, so what does that mean? I could see where there could be problems if they are doing “funny stuff”. (HA, I slay me!) Likely, they don’t really belong gathered by the altar as they were, for instance. However, if these are basically just special liturgies for those involved in the ministries or liturgies that they attend, then we’re right back to where I suggested we might be.
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BulldogCath
Guest
Never--------The fruits of Vatican II
HEY LOOK MOM…I AM PARTICIPATING!!!
dumspirospero:
HEY LOOK MOM…I AM PARTICIPATING!!!
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TobyLue
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dumspirospero
Just a question that maybe we can get these pictures clarified.
Where did this pictures come from and were these identified as to the names of the priests and the parishes and dates? That would be very informative. The reason being is that we must be fully aware that Catholic priests are not the only ones that wear vestments, albs, stoles, chasubles, etc. Lutherans, Anglicans and some Presbyterians wear similar vestments.
The first picture, I don’t know, no excuses. Seems like some party of sorts. Those streamers and balloons do not belong there in the first place. There is no crucifix and the chalice seems to be made of glass, which is not allowed.
The second picture has kids with teen-life t-shirts so that possibly could be Catholic but as mention earlier, teen life masses should be clean of these abuses. Notice I said “should”. I noticed too that the altar was bear so this could have been something the kids and priest were doing after mass. Also there is no crucifix next to the altar and there must be one present while celebrating Mass, no lectionary, and the candles are not lit. I know that some parishes do not use a crucifix even though it is called for. Not trying to make excuses because the Tabernacle is behind the altar and its hard to tell if there is a lighted candle by it or not so we can’t be sure of Our Lord is present or not.
The incense pictures, I can see a couple of deacons in the background so it’s possible this might be some “liturgical dancers” (which btw are not permitted anyway during mass) doing their thing before mass, or could have been after mass. And what in heavens name is that fountain doing there? That surely is not a baptismal font. And those large urns, what do they represent? Are these actually inside the church or maybe these are in the church hall.
The picture of Buddha, I understand that there is an Episcopalian publication “The Living Church” that published a picture that resembled this one showing Buddha behind the altar, so maybe this is not Catholic. Also there are what appear to be some Orientals present who look like buddhist monks. It could have been just a religious service. Something like “we are all searching for the same God”, or maybe some “centering prayer” service. Still not something that is approved by the CC.
The priest with the cheese head hat; the priest is not at the altar but by the pulpit as was stated earlier, so maybe it was done in support of the Green Bay Packers during the football season. It’s still ridiculous, but not an abuse if not done during the actual celebration of the Mass.
As for the clowns, in the first picture, I noticed that the priest is not wearing a chasuble. I can’t tell if there is a lectionary on the altar and I’m not able to see a crucifix. Maybe the priest was just having some prayer service.
The woman in the last picture of course could be Episcopalian.
So is it possible for somebody to shed more light on these pictures?
Just a question that maybe we can get these pictures clarified.
Where did this pictures come from and were these identified as to the names of the priests and the parishes and dates? That would be very informative. The reason being is that we must be fully aware that Catholic priests are not the only ones that wear vestments, albs, stoles, chasubles, etc. Lutherans, Anglicans and some Presbyterians wear similar vestments.
The first picture, I don’t know, no excuses. Seems like some party of sorts. Those streamers and balloons do not belong there in the first place. There is no crucifix and the chalice seems to be made of glass, which is not allowed.
The second picture has kids with teen-life t-shirts so that possibly could be Catholic but as mention earlier, teen life masses should be clean of these abuses. Notice I said “should”. I noticed too that the altar was bear so this could have been something the kids and priest were doing after mass. Also there is no crucifix next to the altar and there must be one present while celebrating Mass, no lectionary, and the candles are not lit. I know that some parishes do not use a crucifix even though it is called for. Not trying to make excuses because the Tabernacle is behind the altar and its hard to tell if there is a lighted candle by it or not so we can’t be sure of Our Lord is present or not.
The incense pictures, I can see a couple of deacons in the background so it’s possible this might be some “liturgical dancers” (which btw are not permitted anyway during mass) doing their thing before mass, or could have been after mass. And what in heavens name is that fountain doing there? That surely is not a baptismal font. And those large urns, what do they represent? Are these actually inside the church or maybe these are in the church hall.
The picture of Buddha, I understand that there is an Episcopalian publication “The Living Church” that published a picture that resembled this one showing Buddha behind the altar, so maybe this is not Catholic. Also there are what appear to be some Orientals present who look like buddhist monks. It could have been just a religious service. Something like “we are all searching for the same God”, or maybe some “centering prayer” service. Still not something that is approved by the CC.
The priest with the cheese head hat; the priest is not at the altar but by the pulpit as was stated earlier, so maybe it was done in support of the Green Bay Packers during the football season. It’s still ridiculous, but not an abuse if not done during the actual celebration of the Mass.
As for the clowns, in the first picture, I noticed that the priest is not wearing a chasuble. I can’t tell if there is a lectionary on the altar and I’m not able to see a crucifix. Maybe the priest was just having some prayer service.
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The second clown picture, no comment but just a -b l e a h-So is it possible for somebody to shed more light on these pictures?
Thanks guys……. And gals.
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Genesis315
Guest
Here’s my question, what’s to stop a priest from wearing a cheesehead at a TLM or clowns from attending a TLM or a priest letting a woman give a homilee at a TLM or a priest saying the TLM outdoors? There’s nothing stopping me from showing up this Sunday in a clown suit except (not that I want to):
The people and the priest would kick me out. It’s the priest and parishioners that are the problem, not the form of the Mass. Us TLMers are spoiled because only super-traditional priests and parishioners attend it these days. If everyone had to go to the TLM you’d see the crazy liberals going to town with it instead.
The people and the priest would kick me out. It’s the priest and parishioners that are the problem, not the form of the Mass. Us TLMers are spoiled because only super-traditional priests and parishioners attend it these days. If everyone had to go to the TLM you’d see the crazy liberals going to town with it instead.
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AuntMartha
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The photos are located here:
traditio.com/nos.htm
Most have dates and locations of where they were taken.
Aunt Martha
traditio.com/nos.htm
Most have dates and locations of where they were taken.
Aunt Martha
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TobyLue
Guest
As far as the comment that we cant show that clown masses are necessarily bad, if it does not give the priest an option in the GIRM, then yes it is bad. Priest are obligated to stick to the GIRM and not introduce anything themselves. Besides, the mass is where we go and give all our attention to Our Lord. We do not go there to bring attention to ourselves nor make some kind of statement.
I’m not a canon lawyer but Can 899 par 3, states “…. and all the faithful present, whether clergy or laity, participate together, in their own way, according to the diversity of orders and liturgical roles.” Clowns are not an order nor do they have any liturgical roles and in “their own way”, does not mean we can dress up in costumes either.
I’m not a canon lawyer but Can 899 par 3, states “…. and all the faithful present, whether clergy or laity, participate together, in their own way, according to the diversity of orders and liturgical roles.” Clowns are not an order nor do they have any liturgical roles and in “their own way”, does not mean we can dress up in costumes either.
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TobyLue
Guest
I briefly scanned through the website. This seems to be anti-catholics, posing as catholics. Looks like a schismatic group to me. I would not put much credence on this website. One cartoon borders on the Jack Chick style. Apparently this group thinks they know more than the Pope. Calling the Papal funeral a “circus” and “Karol Woytla was born in darkness and died in darkness” this is all blasphemy as far as I’m concerned.
Thanks, but no thanks to this site.
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TobyLue
Guest
And look at these quotes from this website
and this
Do these people think that the Vatican controls what goes on in Las Vegas?
and this
This is not a catholic website. It’s a hate website that should be avoided like the plague!!!
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pnewton
Guest
These photos reappear every few months here as someone new discovers them and deems them relevant. While a picture may be worth a thousand words, sometimes those words are lies and misrepresentation.
I remember once during a discussion of the slippery slope that’s leading to women wanted to be ordained, someone posted a picture of an real ordained women in full liturgical garb. Fortunately someone else recognized the minister as Episcopalian.
As far as the initial intent of this thread, I am happy that the TLM mass is so free from problems. May we all have the courage to speak out against abuse when we really do encounter it.
I remember once during a discussion of the slippery slope that’s leading to women wanted to be ordained, someone posted a picture of an real ordained women in full liturgical garb. Fortunately someone else recognized the minister as Episcopalian.
As far as the initial intent of this thread, I am happy that the TLM mass is so free from problems. May we all have the courage to speak out against abuse when we really do encounter it.
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AuntMartha
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Oh, I’m not saying it’s a good site or anything. Someone asked where they came from, dates, and locations. I just checked the properties of the pictures to find the site. I think the dates and locations are correct, but the rest of the site does seem pretty extreme.
Aunt Martha
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