Would you accept a son playing with dolls?

[tafan]

After awhile, boys hesitate to do activities in which girls also participate. Girl cooties.
.

Oh boy, thread drift to the problems with girl altar servers on the way

 

[Jeanne_S]

My three year old grandson has been intrigued by cars,wheels, vacuums anything motorized ever since he was a year old or so. He has a one year old baby sister,who is just now enjoying dollies and such.My grandson has been known to push the dolly stroller around as well. I think this is him emulating his father who is very hands on,re childcare.This is a good thing. IMO
Re male nurses,they are awsome

 

[angell1]

I don’t really disagree with you as far as the big picture goes, but in my experience it’s not unusual for kids to go through weird phases which they then grow out of. I just wouldn’t want to overcorrect for something that could resolve itself on its own in a few weeks.

well, I am a girl who really hates anything that culture deems “girly”. whatever that even means, in the last 200 years, that has change ddramatically

I prefer to play sports and do hands on stuff. was it somehow wrong that I didn’t just 'grow out of that?" because those are supposed to be “boy” things

 

[angell1]

That I agree with. I am a pretty lazzaire-faire parent. But I would be concerned, and certainly take him out and do more “boy” type things with him.

and pray tell, what would you do with a girl like me who doesn’t like “girl” things? forbid me from sports? not let me get the science degree? force me in to shopping or make-up or whatever I’m “supposed” to be doing?

I just don’t understand it

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Regardless of his experience when he was three, getting him to go hunting would be a good thing. I would consider it if I was you. (note: no emoticon on this post).

My dad hunted. I put the emoticon in because he’s just 8 and a bit too young for hunting. Maybe in the future if that what interests him.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

well, I am a girl who really hates anything that culture deems “girly”. whatever that even means, in the last 200 years, that has change ddramatically

I prefer to play sports and do hands on stuff. was it somehow wrong that I didn’t just 'grow out of that?" because those are supposed to be “boy” things

Nah. Wouldn’t stress me out. I mean, do you think you’re a guy, or are you just a girl who likes sports?

There’s nothing “unfeminine” about a woman liking sports.

 

[steve93]

The only time I ever “played” with a girls doll was then I was younger and was just looking for something jointed to try some stop-motion animation with.

 

[steve93]

I remember similar issues going on when I studied Shakespeare plays in high school. Not only were their assignments for students to act out the scenes, teachers would often pick students at random to speak parts aloud and they did not always correspond to the genders of the characters. Now granted I did grow up in a fairly “liberal” part of the country, but I don’t think the teachers had some hidden agenda to blur gender lines and make their students LGBTQ friendly.

Also, Peter Pan, a boy, is usually played by a woman in the play and I doubt JM Barrie was transgendered. Many cartoons have the parts of boys voiced by women, Bart Simpson is voiced by a woman, but Nancy Cartwright AFAIK is a straight cis woman.

Indeed, sometimes it can be very odd for hear adult men speaking boy parts – I think of the English dub of the Japanese anime “Naruto” that had the part of Naruto voiced by a woman. Naruto is a 12 year old boy for half of the show, then there is a 4 year time skip and he is 16 for the rest of it. However, the part of his rival Sasuke, who is the same age, was voiced by a man. I believe this was also the case for the original Japanese voices. However this struck me as very odd because Sasuke isn’t really that more mature or manly than Naruto, though he certainly tries to pretend he is.

Much as with the case of Shakespeare acting assignments in HS, I assume there aren’t enough child male voice actors to fill the parts, and in the case of a long-running show like the Simpsons it wouldn’t even be practical to hire a new boy every 3 - 4 years to voice the part.

I also recall reading that pink used to be the “boy color” and blue the “girl color” and this only switched a few hundred years ago.

Women voicing male childrens’ roles goes as far back as film does. I think they didn’t trust kids to not waste expensive recording equipment if they messed up.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

The only time I ever “played” with a girls doll was then I was younger and was just looking for something jointed to try some stop-motion animation with.

(cough) Nerrrrrdddddd!

Just kidding.

Anyway, I think we’re all a mix of “masculine” and “feminine” traits anyway (not a 50/50 mix, obviously). No one fits gender stereotypes perfectly. For example, I’m a straight guy with a gorgeous, brilliant wife (not to brag. ) I have no desire to ever put on a sundress, and I’m pretty confident that I’m not a woman in a man’s body.

But I have zero interest in cars, and I really don’t care much about sports. Both are pretty stereotypical “masculine” interests. I’m not hostile to them…just doesn’t really interest me. Never been hunting, either. On the other hand, I was in the military, and enjoy target shooting, which people do think of as more masculine.

 

[steve93]

(cough) Nerrrrrdddddd!

Just kidding.

Anyway, I think we’re all a mix of “masculine” and “feminine” traits anyway (not a 50/50 mix, obviously). No one fits gender stereotypes perfectly. For example, I’m a straight guy with a gorgeous, brilliant wife (not to brag. ) I have no desire to ever put on a sundress, and I’m pretty confident that I’m not a woman in a man’s body.

But I have zero interest in cars, and I really don’t care much about sports. Both are pretty stereotypical “masculine” interests. I’m not hostile to them…just doesn’t really interest me. Never been hunting, either. On the other hand, I was in the military, and enjoy target shooting, which people do think of as more masculine.

I absolutely love shooting, hunting, hiking, etc, but could care less about cars or tv sports.

In my opinion, no. Boys playing with dolls should definitely not be encouraged by the parent, but on the other hand I would doubt it being some sort of “omen” that the kid will go into disorders later or any of that.

 

[Peter_J]

So there is a Parenting topic essentially about a girl who likes to play with cars and trains, and apparently this is not a traditionally “girly” interest, but no one has come outright and stated such an interest is inappropriate and that the parents should discourage it. Even though the topic has evolved to cover whether God made women to be wives and mothers and not have paying jobs, whether endeavors to get more girls to consider STEM fields are justified or going against their “God given nature”, etc.

That topic hasn’t really discussed the phenomenon of boys who are interested in “girly” subjects. And I myself have encountered more “tomboys” than whatever the male equivalent is. But I do know one young man who played with dolls as a kid, and is planning on becoming a nurse. AFAIK he is not gay or transgender or anything like that. His parents are fine with his career plans, indeed are very proud of him for going into a career that will give him a chance to help others.

However, since CAF is very conservative and traditional, I wondered if this would be acceptable to the CAFers here who are parents. Would you let your sons play with dolls? Or is this young man sinning in some way? Is he going against the way God designed him?

Are you familiar with the Sissy-Boy Experiment?

 

[pensmama87]

Women voicing male childrens’ roles goes as far back as film does. I think they didn’t trust kids to not waste expensive recording equipment if they messed up.

Also child labor laws.

 

[steve93]

Are you familiar with the Sissy-Boy Experiment?

See, the difference is the doll represents a certain gender. The train does not have gender. I think that is what’s being glossed over.

 

[mommy_k]

That topic hasn’t really discussed the phenomenon of boys who are interested in “girly” subjects. And I myself have encountered more “tomboys” than whatever the male equivalent is. But I do know one young man who played with dolls as a kid, and is planning on becoming a nurse. AFAIK he is not gay or transgender or anything like that. His parents are fine with his career plans, indeed are very proud of him for going into a career that will give him a chance to help others.

However, since CAF is very conservative and traditional, I wondered if this would be acceptable to the CAFers here who are parents. Would you let your sons play with dolls? Or is this young man sinning in some way? Is he going against the way God designed him?

I think a mirror question to the mentioned thread would be would you request a barbie or other doll a or hairclip at a fast food place for your son even though they offer a male toy with stem lesson…because you want your son to have the same nuturing and artistic opportunities as little girls.

 

[pensmama87]

See, the difference is the doll represents a certain gender. The train does not have gender. I think that is what’s being glossed over.

But they have little boy dolls and little girl dolls, and dolls who are just “babies” and not clearly one or the other.

I think it’s a mistake, especially in this day and age, to assume “doll” = “Barbie.”

The one we have is just a baby. It does have a sewn on blue sleeper and hat, so my kids have always said it is a boy baby.

 

[tafan]

and pray tell, what would you do with a girl like me who doesn’t like “girl” things? forbid me from sports? not let me get the science degree? force me in to shopping or make-up or whatever I’m “supposed” to be doing?

I just don’t understand it

I thought the thread was about boys playing with dolls. Silly me.

Girls? All my girls were active in sports, one of them wants an engineering degree. All of them like to shop, but I discourage it.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

See, the difference is the doll represents a certain gender. The train does not have gender. I think that is what’s being glossed over.

But they have little boy dolls and little girl dolls, and dolls who are just “babies” and not clearly one or the other.

I think it’s a mistake, especially in this day and age, to assume “doll” = “Barbie.”

The one we have is just a baby. It does have a sewn on blue sleeper and hat, so my kids have always said it is a boy baby.

Okay, so I never really played with dolls myself, though I wasn’t a “tomboy” either. I just preferred to read, do arts and crafts, and watch TV. But my sister loved dolls and stuffed animals, and I think perhaps we need to differentiate two kinds of “pretend play” involving dolls.

One is when the child pretends to be a mommy or daddy who is the caretaker for the doll, with the doll in the role of a “baby” or “kid”. And so far, no one here has suggested that only women should ever be caretakers for babies.

Another is when the child actually pretends to BE the doll, or dolls, and sets up some kind of pretend scenario like “dragon abducting a princess” using a dragon doll and a princess doll. Somewhat like a puppet show a child will make voices pretending to be the princess while holding the princess doll, then pretend to be the dragon while holding the dragon doll, etc. My sister actually preferred this kind of pretend play to just pretending to be Mommy caring for Baby.

But I don’t think this kind of play is itself problematic, either. “Punch and Judy” shows are a traditional entertainment in the UK and this involves one puppeteer playing the roles of both Punch and Judy as well as many other characters in the puppet play, most of these “Punch Professors” are men.

However, I suppose that if a boy were to engage in this kind of pretend play where children act out a voice and persona for their dolls, and he constantly casts himself in the role of a female doll (as opposed to a male Teddy Bear), then this could be cause for concern.

 

[EasterJoy]

The only time I ever “played” with a girls doll was then I was younger and was just looking for something jointed to try some stop-motion animation with.

A child could use Barbies and GI Joes to represent their co-workers, employees, and so on, or actors in an imaginary drama that doesn’t include the child storyteller as characters. Even girls sometimes use Barbies this way. (This is why Mattel makes Ken dolls: that is, they know most of the children who play with a Ken will be girls, not boys.)

The things my brothers did with my Barbie dolls, however, could be only described in a charitable way as “stunt work.” They were in no way afraid of being looked down upon because they “played with dolls.” They were not identifying with Barbie. (I know this because they did not have a death wish, and Barbie was sent by my brothers on some rather death-defying missions, not to mention missions damaging to her hair quality.)

In other words, even if a boy does play with Barbie dolls, the most over-the-top girly-girl Material Girl with exaggerated secondary female characteristics and accessories in all of Doll-dom, the experience should by no means be expected to always be the same as a girl playing with the same dolls and accessories.

If some brother is doing and saying exactly the same things as his sister does, with Barbie representing himself, that means something very different to him because he is not going to grow up to be a woman. He might be empathizing, he might be expressing a really confused understanding of himself, but he’s expressing a very different connection between the real world and the world imagination than his sister is under the same circumstances. Yes, I’d be watching a boy carefully if he were playing with a Barbie in that way, but I’d see that as a symptom of his inner world, not something that was caused by being carelessly allowed access to a fashion doll.

The chances are, however, that a typical boy playing with a Barbie doll is not doing the same things his fraternal twin sister would be doing. This is why it is by no means unusual for sisters to keep their Barbies essentially under lock and key around their brothers.

(For more on boys and dolls, see: Calvin, Hobbes, and tea parties with Susie Derkins.)

A boy playing with a baby doll, however, is a different matter. He’s not identifying himself with the doll, as he or his sister might with a GI Joe or a Barbie, but is using the doll as a prop to represent a human being he might have in his life in the future just as surely as his sister could. (At least, that is the typical way a child will play with a baby doll.)

 

[pensmama87]

…

A boy playing with a baby doll, however, is a different matter. He’s not identifying himself with the doll, as he or his sister might with a GI Joe or a Barbie, but is using the doll as a prop to represent a human being he might have in his life in the future just as surely as his sister could. (At least, that is the typical way a child will play with a baby doll.)

Exactly.

I said it was sweet to see my now preschooler do this with a baby doll when I was pregnant with my third son, and I still maintain that it was, even though that choice of word was mocked. He is fiercely protective of babies and younger children, and particularly girls. If that’s not boyish, I don’t know what is.

In fact, I think it’s sweet to see my husband gently cradle our children. And very, very manly. He is a very nurturing father, but he’s very much a father and NOT a mother.

 

[Pat_Payne]

Boys already do play with dolls. They’re called “action figures.” How are action figures not dolls?

THIS. In fact, the original GI Joes from the '60s were (IINM) basically Barbie Dolls for boys. It was only the '70s petroleum shortage that shrunk them down to the 3-1/4" action figures of my mid-'80s childhood memories