Would you accept Holy Eucharist via intinction from an EMHC?

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Spiller said:
The form doesn’t change either.
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I have been reading this thread and contributing to it for the past several days. While many of us have given authoritative citations to back up whatever we’ve said, nothing, at all, has come from your posts. You say “naw” and are highly doubtful about what Cardinal Arinze has said. However, you have not posted anything that substantially backs up your claim.

Spiller, Cardinal Arinze is the corresponding authority for the GIRM and RS, as Brendan and others have pointed out. Unfortunately, there is a dangerous trend in the United States to look at things from an “American” perspective, where we routinely question authority, whether it’s the President’s, Congress’ or the courts’. The Church is not a democracy. It is not up to the priests or some diocesan or parish liturgical committee to decide how Holy Communion is to be distibuted to the faithful. Even the bishop’s scope is limited here, as well. The Holy See has spoken regarding who can legitimately distribute Holy Communion via intinction.

Furthermore, EMHC’s are just that, extraordinary. They are only to be employed when there is a genuine need, and, that geunine need doesn’t include having them all come en masse just to shorten the time for the distribution of Holy Communion. Their duties are very limited, as noted in RS.
 
Everyone’s an expert on this forum! We proffer our personal interpretations of Church documents and off-hand remarks with the same level of ignorance and arrogance so common in the scriptural interpretations of our Protestant brethren.

We need more John Lilburnes. Provide the facts and offer an opinion. And fewer “I read this nugget from Adoremus and now I am an expert!”

I’m sure glad the Church doesn’t rely on this forum for direction. If it did things would be even more confusing within the Church then they already are.

If does become laughable after awhile…
 
benedictgal said:
I have been reading this thread and contributing to it for the past several days. While many of us have given authoritative citations to back up whatever we’ve said, nothing, at all, has come from your posts. You say “naw” and are highly doubtful about what Cardinal Arinze has said. However, you have not posted anything that substantially backs up your claim.
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Please don’t spin what I said. First it most certainly is possible that communion distribution by EMsHC via intinction is prohibited. But no one has proven it here is all. Cardinal Arinze’s off-the-cuff comments at a conference are simply not enough. Now if we had a look at that mystical dubium that apparently exists only in Italian, that’s a whole different thing.
benedictgal said:
Spiller, **Cardinal Arinze is the corresponding authority for the GIRM and RS, as Brendan and others have pointed out. ** Unfortunately, there is a dangerous trend in the United States to look at things from an “American” perspective, where we routinely question authority, whether it’s the President’s, Congress’ or the courts’. The Church is not a democracy. It is not up to the priests or some diocesan or parish liturgical committee to decide how Holy Communion is to be distibuted to the faithful. Even the bishop’s scope is limited here, as well. The Holy See has spoken regarding who can legitimately distribute Holy Communion via intinction.
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I am sorry, but you are wrong. Cardinal Arinze was speaking off-the-cuff at a conference and that’s not enough. Its the basis for his comments that I seek and it sounds like they might be documented in said dubium.

Still if you step back at look at what’s being suggested it does seem laughable. If a pastor/bishop wants to allow/disallow this practice he’s going to have to do WHAT to find out the official position from the Church?
benedictgal said:
Furthermore, EMHC’s are just that, extraordinary. They are only to be employed when there is a genuine need, and, that geunine need doesn’t include having them all come en masse just to shorten the time for the distribution of Holy Communion. Their duties are very limited, as noted in RS.
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That’s axiomatic. Why did you include this last paragraph?
 
Spiller said:
The form doesn’t change either.
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Yes, it does. Have you ever received by intinction? When I was Protestant, I did so quite frequently. The intincted bread has a completely different texture, both from dry bread, and from wine.
 
jmcrae said:
Yes, it does. Have you ever received by intinction? When I was Protestant, I did so quite frequently. The intincted bread has a completely different texture, both from dry bread, and from wine.
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Sure I have. We need the Church’s advice and use sturdy hosts that don’t become soggy…
 
Spiller said:
Naw. I’m just receiving both species simultaneously.
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So, adding the two together into one thing doesn’t change the form? (Remember, we’re talking about appearances and accidents, here; not substance.)

So when I add paint to a canvas and make it into a painting, I haven’t actually changed the form of the canvas, but I’m just displaying paint and canvas simultaneously?

Maybe for my next exhibition, I should test this theory by putting up some blank canvases with some unopened tubes of paint, and see how it goes over with the buying public - will they think that what they’re seeing is the same thing as when they come to view an exhibition of paintings? 😉
 
Spiller said:
Please don’t spin what I said. First it most certainly is possible that communion distribution by EMsHC via intinction is prohibited. But no one has proven it here is all. Cardinal Arinze’s off-the-cuff comments at a conference are simply not enough. Now if we had a look at that mystical dubium that apparently exists only in Italian, that’s a whole different thing.

I am sorry, but you are wrong. Cardinal Arinze was speaking off-the-cuff at a conference and that’s not enough. Its the basis for his comments that I seek and it sounds like they might be documented in said dubium.

Still if you step back at look at what’s being suggested it does seem laughable. If a pastor/bishop wants to allow/disallow this practice he’s going to have to do WHAT to find out the official position from the Church?

That’s axiomatic. Why did you include this last paragraph?
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I have read the section of RS that pertains to Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion and there is no provision in there that allows them to distribute Holy Communion by intinction. The fact remains that when it comes to employing intinction, the only reference made is to the priest.

Therefore, Cardinal Arinze’s commoents, whether you choose to dismiss them or ignore them, are perfectly consistent with what is found in the documents.

Pope Benedict has made some remarks “off-the-cuff”; however, they have been consistent with what the Church has promulgated.

As I said before, you have opined on this matter, but, have never submitted anything from the Holy See that substantiates your claims.
 
benedictgal said:
No, the celebrant must distribute Holy Communion. According to Redemptionis Sacramentum:

Now, as has been quoted often in this thread, RS also covers intinction:

RS is very clear as to who should distribute the Sacrament if intinction is employed. It is the priest. This is very consistent with the statement that Francis Cardinal Arinze made regarding the priest and intinction.
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Thank you for posting from RS about the celebrant distributing. There’s a parish near here where the priest usually sits by while EMHCs do all the distribution. It bugged me enough to leave the parish years ago (among other things) but I never knew it was breaking a requirement. I just knew I’d never seen it before and didn’t like that the priest seemed bored and sat tapping his hands on the arms of his chair. :nope:
 
cecilia97 said:
Thank you for posting from RS about the celebrant distributing. There’s a parish near here where the priest usually sits by while EMHCs do all the distribution. It bugged me enough to leave the parish years ago (among other things) but I never knew it was breaking a requirement. I just knew I’d never seen it before and didn’t like that the priest seemed bored and sat tapping his hands on the arms of his chair. :nope:
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Actually, since this thread has grown, I don’t quite remember if I quoted the whole section that pertains to your situation, but, here it is:
[157.] If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed. Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.258
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Unfortunately, I have seen in one parish in my diocese. I brought this to the pastor’s attention, but he told me that he is fulfilling his obligation by giving Holy Communion to the EMHC–he is not elderly nor infirmed. Since then, I have avoided, when I can, going to this parish for Sunday Mass.
 
benedictgal said:
I have read the section of RS that pertains to Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion and there is no provision in there that allows them to distribute Holy Communion by intinction. The fact remains that when it comes to employing intinction, the only reference made is to the priest.
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RS would not be the primary document here – the GIRM is, as mentioned earlier:

287. If Communion from the chalice is carried out by intinction, each communicant, holding a communion-plate under the chin, approaches the priest, who holds a vessel with the sacred particles, a minister standing at his side and holding the chalice. The priest takes a host, dips it partly into the chalice and, showing it, says, Corpus et Sanguis Christi (The Body and Blood of Christ). The communicant responds, Amen, receives the Sacrament in the mouth from the priest, and then withdraws.

In no way does the GIRM make any specific mention of not allowing deacons and the laity to distribute via intinction. The use of “priest” depends on its common usage throughout the document and sadly, the Church seems to be less than uniform in its use. It might well be suggested that if it was cut and dried they wouldn’t be offering Cardinal Arinze’s verbal comments as a primary source for not allowing deacons and the laity to intinct.
benedictgal said:
Therefore, Cardinal Arinze’s commoents, whether you choose to dismiss them or ignore them, are perfectly consistent with what is found in the documents.
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Cardinal Arinze’s verbal assertion is not authoritative. It was off-the-cuff. While it does not contravene the GIRM it cannot add to it either.
benedictgal said:
Pope Benedict has made some remarks “off-the-cuff”; however, they have been consistent with what the Church has promulgated.
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So?
benedictgal said:
As I said before, you have opined on this matter, but, have never submitted anything from the Holy See that substantiates your claims.
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Nor have you. Has anyone seen that Italian language dubium yet?
 
Spiller said:
Nor have you. Has anyone seen that Italian language dubium yet?
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Yes, I have.

We discussed it in a class at the seminary where I am taking my Diaconate classes.

The problem is getting an online copy.
 
For any who would like to comment: do you think we’ll see more Intinction in the future than what we see now?
 
Jerry-Jet said:
For any who would like to comment: do you think we’ll see more Intinction in the future than what we see now?
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It’s relatively new to our parish, brought by our rather young pastor. I see reception of the tongue in general increasing, hopefully I’m not just fooling myself based on what I see at my church.
 
Jerry-Jet said:
For any who would like to comment: do you think we’ll see more Intinction in the future than what we see now?
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Sure, a little bit more at least…

Pope Benedict XVI distributed Holy Communion at least once via intinction while here in the USA. What the pope does is emulated – by at least some.
 
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