Would You Attend This Mass?

[Joe_5859]

If the Church disagreed the sign of peace would not be optional.

But if the Church thought it were a distraction, the sign of peace wouldn’t be an option at all.

I can understand that people don’t like it. It’s not my favorite part of Mass either. I’m an introvert and – since having kids – I am increasingly conscientious about germs. And I’m all for trusting our pastors. If mine did that, I’d not necessarily appreciate having to then explain to my 6 year old that she’s no longer allowed to shake my hand at that time. But I could go along with it. But I’ve seen plenty of Catholics get upset over far less. Whether or not they’re justified in feeling that way is beside the point. The pastor has to weigh whether or not the push back is worth it.

 

[baylee]

I can just as easily take her post and replace a few words to create my own lobbying effort to show that “most people” are NOT enthused by the notion of this style of Mass.

Except I don’t see where she said “most people”. She said that she hopes that Father takes note of the enthusiasm on this thread. That could mean taking note of the enthusiasm of just a few posters too.

Unless I’m missing something here.

 

[Tigg]

Here’s my honest response, and no offence intended. If I attended a mass like that, I would not be back again unless I had absolutely no other choice in the matter. As it is I think a sense of community and belonging is at best extremely frayed in the Catholic Church. I find the culture that has developed of “I’m just at mass for communion and the graces I will receive and have no interest in anyone else” to be extremely mercenary, cold, and isolating. I appreciate that there are people who simply want to focus on adoring the Sacrament of the mass and are interested in nothing else at church. I see many people at my church who come to mass, don’t say a word to anyone, receive their communion and are straight out the door. Unfortunately I think the Church in America is paying dearly for this. People feel cut off from one another, unsupported, unimportant, not welcomed, and confused. Anyone visiting a Catholic mass for the first time will have almost no idea what is going on. I think of my wife, who was a non-denominational Christian, who has just recently begun to feel in any way accepted or welcomed at a Catholic mass. And at our parish we actually take a moment to greet everyone around us before mass begins, shake hands and hug at the sign of peace, and hold hands during The Lord’s Prayer while we sing it. Personally I find that all to be very beautiful. It creates at least an expression that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and that is more important than petty differences. Again I see what the appeal of a mass like you mentioned has, but worry about the toll such masses ultimately take on the Church and the community.

And here it is again. That polar opposite that exists in the Church today. That “thing” that separates us and which we can barely describe……but nonetheless makes us so uncomfortable we feel we are sojourners in an alien land.

Our parish has had to adjust to a new priest – not a very recent change, but a new direction as he slowly has implemented emphasis from sacred worship to community as the first concern. Many feel it poignantly and as we look around, we discover we have become less reverent, less prayerful, more prone to disagree and insist upon our own way. Our happy, very “clappy” (I mean this literally – we now clap for everyone and everything at Mass) community has become discontented and the very thing which our pastor desired to build is what is fraying. In other words, what I see is that we are trying to experience God as though community were the “Center” instead of humbly submitting to the Fountain-Head and receiving His Grace and free gifts and recognizing His sovereignty and the obligation we have to give Him His due.

I also believe that community is very important and another poster has already suggested ways we can surround ourselves with support. But we are speaking of the Mass and the four ends to which we participate. We teach it to our children as “Acts” – Adoration, Contrition, Thanksgiving and Supplication.

 

[Pablopedro]

The kiss of peace is optional for laypeople…check the GIRM.

The kiss of peace is mandated only at Solemn High EF Mass, as far as I know.

I stand by my statement that it’s about HIM, not us.

I’ve endured 40+ years of this touchy-feely nonsense, and one only need to look around to see the results.

We need to bring people up to good liturgy, and not water it down in hopes of attracting protestants and others (why would they leave their church if our church looks/acts exactly like theirs) ?

That’s just it. We have the Sacrifice of the Mass. We have the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. The Eucharist brings peace to the soul, tremendous grace, inner consolation. Protestants who experienced this would return to the Mass and the Church in droves…if only they weren’t alienated first. Bring people to God and let him do the real work as only He can.

 

[mojo321]

Baylee wrote: Except I don’t see where she said “most people”. She said that she hopes that Father takes note of the enthusiasm on this thread. That could mean taking note of the enthusiasm of just a few posters too. Unless I’m missing something here

She inferred a statistical equivalent. Namely, that the enthusiastic responses on this thread, regardless of it’s volume, is a representation of the “yearnings of the laity”.

Father,
I hope you are taking note of the enthusiasm here. It is but a microcosm of the yearnings out there among the laity, many of whom just assume that you represent such a minority that their yearnings will not be met in their lifetimes. Please convey this to your brother priests.

Although the exact phrase “most people agree that we are yearning for this style of mass” was not stated, I think the quote shows why Justaservant and I take offense to the lobbying effort. I don’t think Elizabeth has any idea of what my yearnings from a mass are.

Regardless, we can pick the words apart and debate, but it doesn’t matter. I really wasn’t planning on responding to Elizabeth’s post. I only wanted to point out to Tigg that his reaction, labeling Justaservant’s comment as “rude and off-the-mark”, is an unfair dismissal of his valid point.

And lastly, the LAST thing I wanted to do is get into the middle of a silly tiff over an enthusiastic response! I’m sure Elizabeths intentions are good!! Everyone has a right to lobby their opinions, Elizabeth included. But in an open forum, there can be backlash from the side opposite. I prefer when people stay on topic, and not resort to dismissing opinions just because they “came off rude”.

 

[CatholicServant]

Absolutely, 100%, without question. In fact, I would drive some distance for Mass as you have described it.

God bless you for your efforts, and may He help you to persevere in your vocation.

Me Too!

 

[JustaServant]

Our parish has had to adjust to a new priest – not a very recent change, but a new direction as he slowly has implemented emphasis from sacred worship to community as the first concern. Many feel it poignantly and as we look around, we discover we have become less reverent, less prayerful, more prone to disagree and insist upon our own way. Our happy, very “clappy” (I mean this literally – we now clap for everyone and everything at Mass) community has become discontented and the very thing which our pastor desired to build is what is fraying.

This is gossip, which is against forum rules.

 

[CatholicServant]

Oh and a couple more things I’m considering: no offertory procession (optional in GIRM, but encouraged), no handshaking at sign of peace, and prayers of the faithful (optional in GIRM but highly encouraged) would be ommitted when Mass might run long, for example if there was a speaker at end of Mass or long announcements that day, etc.

This! and also no hand-holding during the Our Father and no Orans position during Mass for anyone other than the Priest.

 

[baylee]

She inferred a statistical equivalent. Namely, that the enthusiastic responses on this thread, regardless of it’s volume, is a representation of the “yearnings of the laity”.

Although the exact phrase “most people agree that we are yearning for this style of mass” was not stated, I think the quote shows why Justaservant and I take offense to the lobbying effort. I don’t think Elizabeth has any idea of what my yearnings from a mass are.

Regardless, we can pick the words apart and debate, but it doesn’t matter. I really wasn’t planning on responding to Elizabeth’s post. I only wanted to point out to Tigg that his reaction, labeling Justaservant’s comment as “rude and off-the-mark”, is an unfair dismissal of his valid point.

And lastly, the LAST thing I wanted to do is get into the middle of a silly tiff over an enthusiastic response! I’m sure Elizabeths intentions are good!! Everyone has a right to lobby their opinions, Elizabeth included. But in an open forum, there can be backlash from the side opposite. I prefer when people stay on topic, and not resort to dismissing opinions just because they “came off rude”.

I’m not getting into a tiff about this either, but it’s interesting because I didn’t take her comment about the laity to mean all of the laity, but of those in the laity that feel the same way as she does. I would bet that she wasn’t stating that most of the laity felt the same way as she does.

 

[mojo321]

Baylee wrote: I’m not getting into a tiff about this either, but it’s interesting because I didn’t take her comment about the laity to mean all of the laity, but of those in the laity that feel the same way as she does. I would bet that she wasn’t stating that most of the laity felt the same way as she does.

I’ll bet you are right on that one!!

Justaservant wrote: This is gossip, which is against forum rules.

You lost me on that one, Justaservant.

 

[Pablopedro]

And here it is again. That polar opposite that exists in the Church today. That “thing” that separates us and which we can barely describe……but nonetheless makes us so uncomfortable we feel we are sojourners in an alien land.

Our parish has had to adjust to a new priest – not a very recent change, but a new direction as he slowly has implemented emphasis from sacred worship to community as the first concern. Many feel it poignantly and as we look around, we discover we have become less reverent, less prayerful, more prone to disagree and insist upon our own way. Our happy, very “clappy” (I mean this literally – we now clap for everyone and everything at Mass) community has become discontented and the very thing which our pastor desired to build is what is fraying. In other words, what I see is that we are trying to experience God as though community were the “Center” instead of humbly submitting to the Fountain-Head and receiving His Grace and free gifts and recognizing His sovereignty and the obligation we have to give Him His due.

I also believe that community is very important and another poster has already suggested ways we can surround ourselves with support. But we are speaking of the Mass and the four ends to which we participate. We teach it to our children as “Acts” – Adoration, Contrition, Thanksgiving and Supplication.

It is not at all “polar opposites.” It’s the same liturgy, same Sacrifice of the Mass, same words, same Lord’s Prayer, same Sacrament, same presence of Christ and the Holy Spirit. It is simply that some wish to have a more contemplative experience (which again I understand) and others want more of a fellowship and ministry experience.

And it’s far better if people are bickering with each other rather than simply silently leaving the Church or the parish IMO. Singing in worship of God with hands held and quietly chanting to God refusing to have any contact with another person are both giving God His due.

 

[JustaServant]

You lost me on that one, Justaservant.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=762798

 

[Tigg]

That’s just it. We have the Sacrifice of the Mass. We have the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. The Eucharist brings peace to the soul, tremendous grace, inner consolation. Protestants who experienced this would return to the Mass and the Church in droves…if only they weren’t alienated first. Bring people to God and let him do the real work as only He can.

I’m confused by this. If people were to experience the Mass as Calvary (which they should) why would they feel alienated while being wrapped in the love of Christ Who gave His life for them?

Worship is primary, not the social hall event some might wish it to be. A true love of Christ experienced in the interior, will flow outward toward our fellow worshippers as one Body and in service and fellowship to one another.

 

[Pablopedro]

I’m confused by this. If people were to experience the Mass as Calvary (which they should) why would they feel alienated while being wrapped in the love of Christ Who gave His life for them?

Worship is primary, not the social hall event some might wish it to be. A true love of Christ experienced in the interior, will flow outward toward our fellow worshippers as one Body and in service and fellowship to one another.

Unfortunately it is not always easy to simply feel the love of Christ while at mass. If it was, everyone in the world would be Catholic. So one of our duties as Catholics is to reflect that Love for the world to see. I can only imagine how odd it must be to hear Catholics talk about receiving Christ, showing up to the event excitedly, and seeing everyone there being very dreary and sullen.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Right now I am Parochial Vicar in my parish. Probably in a year I will be a pastor and able to make some significant liturgical choices . I would like to offer an OF liturgy that uses legitimate options that are not often used. I am interested if you would be would desire to attending this type of iturgy, and why/why not

1. No hymns: instead we chant the entrace antiphon and communion antiphon. Silence during the offertory.
2. Ad Orientem for Liturgy of the Eucharist. Liturgy of the Word facing the people, of course
3. Use of communion rail (if available) to receive kneeling, on the tongue. Otherwise kneeler for those who wish to use it when receiving
4. Chanted Latin Ordinaries (Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Agnus Dei), other prayers in vernacular
5. No communion hymn, just chant communion antiphon+ but post-communion reflection sung by choir or cantor
6. Lots of silence (offertory, communion) rather than filling those times with hymns
7. Oh and a really awesome homiily 10-15 minutes with lots of energy and hopefully inspiring

What do you think?

I long for a Mass like this. I especially love the idea of the priest celebrating the Mass ad orientam, and being able to receive at the communon rail, kneeling, on the tongue. It’s so very sad that we have lost these beautiful customs in just a few short decades. Even if you were able just to introduce those two (ad orientam and the communion rail), I think it would make a huge difference in the beauty and reverence of the Mass.

But I do love hymns and would be sad to see them deleted from the Mass. I think they are a wonderful part of our Christian heritage–many of them are ancient–and they shouldn’t be scrapped. I agree that we don’t need a congregational hymn during Communion, though. It’s kind of an awkward time to be singing, and it is more conducive to reflection to either have silence, or to have just the choir singing, or maybe the organ playing softly.

Just my thoughts–but I would totally support the sort of Mass you described, either way.

 

[mojo321]

I’m confused by this. If people were to experience the Mass as Calvary (which they should) why would they feel alienated while being wrapped in the love of Christ Who gave His life for them?

Worship is primary, not the social hall event some might wish it to be. A true love of Christ experienced in the interior, will flow outward toward our fellow worshippers as one Body and in service and fellowship to one another.

Hmmm…I tend to lean toward dismissing any desire to “experience” anything. There are MANY times when a baby cries, or the microphone isn’t working well, when I experience very little, but I am there, and I am receiving communion. Those that “pray better” or “concentrate more” are no more blessed to be Catholic than anyone else. That’s the whole point, isn’t it? Christ did the work. We have only to believe and willfully participate. There is nothing saying that if I am distracted by the music, or the inclusion of greeting one another, that the grace from the Mass is reduced.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for reverence! But my opinion is that community should be experienced wherever it is appropriate to have it. (that said, I do not agree with the hand holding thing during the Our Father and Doxology.)

 

[Elizabeth502]

She inferred a statistical equivalent. Namely, that the enthusiastic responses on this thread, regardless of it’s volume, is a representation of the “yearnings of the laity”.

I did no such thing. However, the fact that you are apparently concerned that there is a groundswell toward a more traditional version of the Mass (a groundswell which is increasingly visible in many disparate regions) says something about a possible resistance to what the Church herself accepts.

I don’t think Elizabeth has any idea of what my yearnings from a mass are.

Nor did I say that. The noun is the collective and indefinite noun, “yearnings.” It is a statistical fact that there are many such yearnings in parishes across the U.S., just to give one example, and that such collective yearning is only suggested, not exhaustively represented, by the enthusiasm for the OP in this very thread.

You keep your yearnings, and let other Catholics keep theirs. Theirs exist apart from what your yearnings are or are not. Other people’s yearnings should not threaten you.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Except I don’t see where she said “most people”. She said that she hopes that Father takes note of the enthusiasm on this thread. …Unless I’m missing something here.

Naturally you’re not missing anything, baylee. Very telling, though, the immediate need by some to marginalize to the point of insignificance a genuine sensus fidei fidelium. We’re not insignificant. The indicator for that is what the OP is telling us (and what many of us have independently seen) is a positive response toward that groundswell from new seminarians.

In mathematical terms, “significant” = measurable. Whether that current significance grows or dwindles in the future, none of us is in a position to say at this point, although we can speculate all we want. What does appear to be true is that at very least, that enthusiasm is maintaining, not dwindling. Nor is that enthusiasm limited to a certain age group or location, but is cutting across the population demographically, geographically, ethnically.

God bless you.

 

[YoungTradCath]

But if the Church thought it were a distraction, the sign of peace wouldn’t be an option at all.

I can understand that people don’t like it. It’s not my favorite part of Mass either. I’m an introvert and – since having kids – I am increasingly conscientious about germs. And I’m all for trusting our pastors. If mine did that, I’d not necessarily appreciate having to then explain to my 6 year old that she’s no longer allowed to shake my hand at that time. But I could go along with it. But I’ve seen plenty of Catholics get upset over far less. Whether or not they’re justified in feeling that way is beside the point. The pastor has to weigh whether or not the push back is worth it.

I’m not sure this is the point. Anything can be a distraction. The Pater Noster can be a distraction if we get up and jump around while singing it.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Good luck with silence at a 7PM Saturday night Spanish Mass with half of the church being young kids.

LOL that would also be cool. I’m a woman of many moods.