Would You Attend This Mass?

[englishredrose]

I like this point. In fact, that is my plan. People like choices, not “one size fits all”.

If you liked this point then you have missed that I raised this point in the post in about the 4page to this whole thread… I had done which included this aspect ie you need to find out what people at your parish likes, not what we might like… Offer a varity and you will get fewer attendences at each one but the ones there will be a) that day and time suits them and b) that service suits them. You do need to consult the people of the church though because people here aren’t the attendees and as much as we might say we would like, I also know we can say that of course father, we would come to that, you put it on and after about 6 weeks attendences drop of… time will tell and whether you do it for a few people or whether you do it for the majority of people is something to think about I err think

 

[FrStevenJones]

Did I miss something? An entire thread has gone missing! “What happened” discussing the decline of attendance at mass since the New Mass was incorporated. Where did it go?

If you liked this point then you have missed that I raised this point in the post in about the 4page to this whole thread… I had done which included this aspect ie you need to find out what people at your parish likes, not what we might like… Offer a varity and you will get fewer attendences at each one but the ones there will be a) that day and time suits them and b) that service suits them. You do need to consult the people of the church though because people here aren’t the attendees and as much as we might say we would like, I also know we can say that of course father, we would come to that, you put it on and after about 6 weeks attendences drop of… time will tell and whether you do it for a few people or whether you do it for the majority of people is something to think about I err think

A priest is not a dictator, of course he must consult the parish! On the other hand, a parish is not a democracy, the priest consults, listens, and leads!

 

[Joe_5859]

A priest is not a dictator, of course he must consult the parish! On the other hand, a parish is not a democracy, the priest consults, listens, and leads!

Well put. Spoken like a true pastor.

 

[Usige]

A priest is not a dictator, of course he must consult the parish! On the other hand, a parish is not a democracy, the priest consults, listens, and leads!

:clapping:

I think too many people think of it as “their parish” and that the pastor is something like an employee meant to serve the way they want. I remember my pastor once saying that he is glad if people like him, but come judgement God won’t look at how many friends he has. Rather He will judge him on how many souls he lead to heaven.

 

[Gidge]

:clapping:

I think too many people think of it as “their parish” and that the pastor is something like an employee meant to serve the way they want. I remember my pastor once saying that he is glad if people like him, but come judgement God won’t look at how many friends he has. Rather He will judge him on how many souls he lead to heaven.

Quoted for truth.

Sadly, due to a lack of priests/vocations, many parishes, out of necessity are for all intents and purposes “run” by lay people. Once power (real or imagined) is granted, our fallen human nature is not too easily inclined to give it up, FWIW.

 

[AnneTeresa]

I wouldn’t attend if another type mass was available. I’m a baby boomer–Masses that are like the old ones that I grew up with seem very oppressive to me. I know I’m not the only one in this age group who feels this way.

I like the homily idea though.

 

[Lormar]

Quoted for truth.

Sadly, due to a lack of priests/vocations, many parishes, out of necessity are for all intents and purposes “run” by lay people. Once power (real or imagined) is granted, our fallen human nature is not too easily inclined to give it up, FWIW.

Quite true.

 

[Lormar]

I wouldn’t attend if another type mass was available. I’m a baby boomer–Masses that are like the old ones that I grew up with seem very oppressive to me. I know I’m not the only one in this age group who feels this way.

I like the homily idea though.

I’m a baby boomer too, but I feel the opposite from you. I find the old Mass to be quite freeing and uplifting, while I don’t care for the new at all.

 

[maryjk]

Another thought I’ve had is, when you get to your new parish, maybe offer one Mass that incorporates the changes you want to make and see what kind of attendance / reception you get. Then maybe you can incorporate some of the changes into the other Masses if it is received well.

Great idea.

And no, I would not attend the Mass described unless there wasn’t another option.

 

[Catholic_Wife]

:clapping:

I think too many people think of it as “their parish” and that the pastor is something like an employee meant to serve the way they want. I remember my pastor once saying that he is glad if people like him, but come judgement God won’t look at how many friends he has. Rather He will judge him on how many souls he lead to heaven.

I didn’t want to derail this thread, so I answered this HERE.

 

[AndyP2010]

Well I wouldn’t walk out. No if I was visiting your parish and that is how you said Mass then I would go. As long as it is a proper Mass then heaven touches down to earth and I receive our Lord and so on I am happy. As to what to say in latin, to my mind certain prayers should come from the heart such as the Confiteor, the Our Father and the Creed which are harder to do in a language not my own. Also if your going to have people receive the body of Christ on the tongue, you will need to teach them how to do so properly. In the years that I have been an extraordinary minister, most of the people don’t do it correctly.

 

[markomalley]

Right now I am Parochial Vicar in my parish. Probably in a year I will be a pastor and able to make some significant liturgical choices . I would like to offer an OF liturgy that uses legitimate options that are not often used. I am interested if you would be would desire to attending this type of iturgy, and why/why not

1. No hymns: instead we chant the entrace antiphon and communion antiphon. Silence during the offertory.
2. Ad Orientem for Liturgy of the Eucharist. Liturgy of the Word facing the people, of course
3. Use of communion rail (if available) to receive kneeling, on the tongue. Otherwise kneeler for those who wish to use it when receiving
4. Chanted Latin Ordinaries (Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Agnus Dei), other prayers in vernacular
5. No communion hymn, just chant communion antiphon+ but post-communion reflection sung by choir or cantor
6. Lots of silence (offertory, communion) rather than filling those times with hymns
7. Oh and a really awesome homiily 10-15 minutes with lots of energy and hopefully inspiring

What do you think?

If you have a chance sometime, go pay a visit to St Mary’s in Greenville, South Carolina: stmarysgvl.org/

They have the most outstanding Ordinary Form masses I’ve ever seen.

 

[YoungTradCath]

If you have a chance sometime, go pay a visit to St Mary’s in Greenville, South Carolina: stmarysgvl.org/

They have the most outstanding Ordinary Form masses I’ve ever seen.

Upstate SC is one of the least well-known true gems of Catholicism in the USA.

 

[CharlesinCenCA]

With the likes of Fr. Christopher Martin and chant master Scott Turkington in SC, I can well imagine how sweet it is.

 

[TCCOV]

Sorry, in the above post I meant to refer to Fr. Christopher Smith, not Martin. Sorry.

 

[Pablopedro]

Thanks to all for your comments on this post. It is very helpful to me to hear your varied points of view on this, even if you don’t agree with what I think is best.

Please pray for me, and love each other always, in the Lord Jesus, especially when you disagree!

Pax Christe,

I will absolutely be praying for you Fr. I hope you have great success as a Pasture and strengthen and heal your flock. While I would not enjoy the Mass you suggest, I know there are many who would and I think they should have every opportunity to attend such a Mass. Just try not to forget about the people who have different preferences, after all they need your guidance and love as well. God Bless!

 

[KellyPalmer]

Here’s my honest response, and no offence intended. If I attended a mass like that, I would not be back again unless I had absolutely no other choice in the matter. As it is I think a sense of community and belonging is at best extremely frayed in the Catholic Church. I find the culture that has developed of “I’m just at mass for communion and the graces I will receive and have no interest in anyone else” to be extremely mercenary, cold, and isolating. I appreciate that there are people who simply want to focus on adoring the Sacrament of the mass and are interested in nothing else at church. I see many people at my church who come to mass, don’t say a word to anyone, receive their communion and are straight out the door. Unfortunately I think the Church in America is paying dearly for this. People feel cut off from one another, unsupported, unimportant, not welcomed, and confused. Anyone visiting a Catholic mass for the first time will have almost no idea what is going on. I think of my wife, who was a non-denominational Christian, who has just recently begun to feel in any way accepted or welcomed at a Catholic mass. And at our parish we actually take a moment to greet everyone around us before mass begins, shake hands and hug at the sign of peace, and hold hands during The Lord’s Prayer while we sing it. Personally I find that all to be very beautiful. It creates at least an expression that we are all brothers and sisters in Christ and that is more important than petty differences. Again I see what the appeal of a mass like you mentioned has, but worry about the toll such masses ultimately take on the Church and the community.

I’m not big on the hand holding and things like that but you make an excellent point. I think some people miss the bigger picture here. Being all about HIM is being all about US. Jesus doesn’t just have children, He is His children. When you fail to welcome your neighbor, you fail to welcome Jesus. When you walk away from your fellow children of God at Mass, you walk away from Jesus. You can’t have HIM without having US. American culture is so individualistic and Catholics haven’t been immune from those effects. So many people want to go to Mass just for Him and no one else as if that were even possible.

 

[FrStevenJones]

Unfortunately it is not always easy to simply feel the love of Christ while at mass. If it was, everyone in the world would be Catholic. So one of our duties as Catholics is to reflect that Love for the world to see. I can only imagine how odd it must be to hear Catholics talk about receiving Christ, showing up to the event excitedly, and seeing everyone there being very dreary and sullen.

Prayer does not make one “dreary and sullen” it fills you with joy!

 

[FrStevenJones]

I’m not big on the hand holding and things like that but you make an excellent point. I think some people miss the bigger picture here. Being all about HIM is being all about US. Jesus doesn’t just have children, He is His children. When you fail to welcome your neighbor, you fail to welcome Jesus. When you walk away from your fellow children of God at Mass, you walk away from Jesus. You can’t have HIM without having US. American culture is so individualistic and Catholics haven’t been immune from those effects. So many people want to go to Mass just for Him and no one else as if that were even possible.

A classical definition of prayer is “lifting of the heart and mind to God”. That is our primary task as Mass. We pray in community, but not focused primarily on each other, yet aware we are all focused, together, on the Lord. As we receive His presence in Mass, whether in the Real Presence of Holy Communion or his spiritual presence, we are filled with supernatural charity. This cannot help but spill out to our neighbor. This “spilling out” is reflected in a reserved and gentle “sign of peace”, and in hearty and heartfelt greetings after Mass. There is no conflict between focusing on God during Mass, and being kind and loving to each other after Mass. To the contrary, God’s love, and our love for him, is what allows us to love our neighbor. Some people don’t want to socialize after Mass, perhaps out of shyness, perhaps they are not socially inclined. But true prayer and reflection on God is not the cause of their reticence, it is the cure. Everyone is made a better person through contact with the living God. If you have a more outgoing personality, perhaps you could help draw some of these people out in conversation.

 

[markomalley]

A classical definition of prayer is “lifting of the heart and mind to God”. That is our primary task as Mass. We pray in community, but not focused primarily on each other, yet aware we are all focused, together, on the Lord. As we receive His presence in Mass, whether in the Real Presence of Holy Communion or his spiritual presence, we are filled with supernatural charity. This cannot help but spill out to our neighbor. This “spilling out” is reflected in a reserved and gentle “sign of peace”, and in hearty and heartfelt gretings after Mass. There is no conflict between focusing on God during Mass, and being kind and loving to each other after Mass. To the contrary, God’s love, and our love for him, is what allows us to love our neighbor. Some people don’t want to socialize after Mass, perhaps out of shyness, perhaps they are not socially inclined. But true prayer and reflection on God is not the cause of their reticence, it is the cure. Everyone is made a better person through contact with the living God. If you have a more outgoing personality, perhaps you could help draw some of these people out in conversation.

Apoc 5:
[11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne, and the living creatures, and the ancients; and the number of them was thousands of thousands, [12] Saying with a loud voice: The Lamb that was slain is worthy to receive power, and divinity, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and benediction. [13] And every creature, which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them: I heard all saying: To him that sitteth on the throne, and to the Lamb, benediction, and honour, and glory, and power, for ever and ever.
As I understand it, that is the greater “community” of the Mass. Those celebrating the Mass in heaven are solely focused on God.

Father, should our behavior not emulate the heavenly host who are even now worshiping the Lamb in heaven? (Rhetorical question: as I am agreeing with your sentiment)