Would you consider this abusive or extreme?

[grasscutter]

I understand. I do. Mainly because even after that happened I was paralyzed with fear. I was a bad mother at that time.

But years later… And no subsequent physical instances … Do you think one can be seen as no further threat?

Out of curiosity, how do you know that there were no other physical abuse instances? I was a child once, and I know that I didn’t tell every bad thing that happened to me to an adult. Even our own kids that we know and love will keep things from us.

 

[mega1]

Yes I believe that my son would tell me. The child therapist we saw a few years ago told me to tell our son that he could Always feel safe in coming to me. and he does to this day about things. He likes our “secret meetings”. He will sometimes complain about my husband but I haven’t heard of anything that is physically abusive.

I do agree though that I need to disclose this info to my newer therapist. I will do this ASAP in the morning. I need to recognize that just cause he’s nice to us today doesn’t mean that he is healed.

 

[grasscutter]

So - if I’ve got this right - you saw a therapist, disclosed the physically abusive incident and the advice the therapist gave to your child was that he could always come to you and tell you about future events?

Incompetence, much?!? Same for the attorney that you said you consulted with.

In any case, you simply don’t know what your husband might have said to your child when you are not around and he may very well feel that telling you things could be harmful to you, him and/or the security of his home.

I’m not sure what you expect people on the internet to do for you, but continuing to discuss new events about the same dysfunction isn’t helping you to resolve the situation. Action is now what is called for.

 

[AussieTrish]

I’m not sure what you expect people on the internet to do for you, but continuing to discuss new events about the same dysfunction isn’t helping you to resolve the situation. Action is now what is called for.

This is perhaps a good point, I think. Does there come a time when the answers have all been given, many times over, but we are still unable to make our choices or accept our reality and handle it as best we can?
The OP does keep asking similar questions when the questions needn’t be asked if the person didn’t know in their minds that the behavior was abusive or extreme.

Yes, the person she is married to is dysfunctional, and possibly to some small degree she may be also. Much advice has been given, but to continue to asking similar questions, with similar responses, can result in a failure to act on what the person already knows, or at least to accept the reality of the situation and deal with it as well as possible, especially for the sake of the child… Emotionally the responsibility can be partly shifted to the responders, who have no power of decision in the marriage, if the same issues are discussed over and over without effect. The counselling can be useful to a degree to help one cope but it also has no decision over the marriage.

Ultimately the OP has to decide whether she will continue to endure and counteract the deficient parental and spousal capacity of her husband and accept that is her lot, or she can change the situation and leave with her son, which is likely to bring with it a train of other problems. We all have things we must cope with in marriage relationships, few if any of us are all we should be. Ultimately we have to decide what we will accept as the reality of our lives and what we owe the most vulnerable persons in our relationships.

The most important person is the son who is in this marriage through no choice of his own, as an innocent child being formed by his parents and environment. Abuse is not simply physical, as we know, it also occurs when a child lacks security and consistency in the primary relationships.

No one can do other than advise the OP to stay or to leave, but she has to find the way to live the reality she chooses, with the problems that come with either decision, just as we all must, including those whose difficulties are known only within our own families.

The Serenity Prayer
cptryon.org/prayer/special/serenity.html

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

    --Reinhold Niebuhr

…

Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will direct your paths.

Proverbs 3, 5-6

 

[mega1]

The responsibility is all mine. I get that. I think I still struggle with the fact that he seems like a good guy but all the whole just barely keeps afloat financially.

I asked him last nigh of he was happy. He said Yes. We having had sex in 3 months. I guess I wanna know how he could be serious …

 

[maryjk]

The responsibility is all mine. I get that. I think I still struggle with the fact that he seems like a good guy but all the whole just barely keeps afloat financially.

I asked him last nigh of he was happy. He said Yes. We having had sex in 3 months. **I guess I wanna know how he could be serious **…

Why?

I guess I can’t imagine having sex with someone that screams at me. Or someone that threatens me. Or someone that conspires with my child to run away from me.

mega, there are so many things in your life that need straightened out, that I wouldn’t worry about having sex with your husband.

 

[mega1]

Well, I know that most men are driven by sex. Unfortunately , our sexual relationship hasn’t been great. One of the priests we met with basically said that was where we needed to reconnect and from there… We could get our marriage back. But I didn’t want that. I feel resentment toward him and just can’t see throwing myself at him.

But, the fact that he says that he is happy just blows my mind. And also… I have been demonstrating that I am not okay… For months. I’ve had so much stress and fear over finances. I would tell him that I wasn’t okay…and not once did I find that he suggested therapy etc.

I went on my own again and he just recently found out.

 

[mega1]

I understand what you mean Grasscutter. I am working to enforce boundaries better and I’m trying to do the best thing for all involved. In truth, I’d like to run away from all of it. But, I realize that won’t do anything healthy for anyone.

It just makes sin even more luring and I’m trying to keep my head together.

So - if I’ve got this right - you saw a therapist, disclosed the physically abusive incident and the advice the therapist gave to your child was that he could always come to you and tell you about future events?

Incompetence, much?!? Same for the attorney that you said you consulted with.

In any case, you simply don’t know what your husband might have said to your child when you are not around and he may very well feel that telling you things could be harmful to you, him and/or the security of his home.

But

I’m not sure what you expect people on the internet to do for you, but continuing to discuss new events about the same dysfunction isn’t helping you to resolve the situation. Action is now what is called for.

 

[maryjk]

Well, I know that most men are driven by sex. Unfortunately , our sexual relationship hasn’t been great. One of the priests we met with basically said that was where we needed to reconnect and from there… We could get our marriage back. But I didn’t want that. I feel resentment toward him and just can’t see throwing myself at him.

But, the fact that he says that he is happy just blows my mind. And also… I have been demonstrating that I am not okay… For months. I’ve had so much stress and fear over finances. I would tell him that I wasn’t okay…and not once did I find that he suggested therapy etc.

I went on my own again and he just recently found out.

Sometimes I read your posts and I think that you have got to be kidding.

Your husband yells at you for no reason. He pretty much flips out if things don’t go his way. He has conspired with your son, to move without telling you. And you are concerned that your sex life hasn’t been all that great?

You are worried that he isn’t happy? If you are, why? If you aren’t, then why ask him?

Do you honestly think he is going to think back, realize that you aren’t happy and come to the conclusion that if you aren’t happy, he shouldn’t be? Because if you are thinking that you should know better.

 

[mega1]

Well, first, the conversation they had about moving was not moving without me as I’ve learned. They were talking about moving closer to his parents… But it centered around ME getting a job that could support us.

The other stuff is all true… And what I mean is that I have a hard time understanding how I can feel so depleted in the relationship and he is “happy”. It was more of an observation than anything else…

My point is if he had come to me years ago and said I’m not happy we need to work on xyz … I would have!

It’s like we are living separate lives… Mentally and emotionally.

 

[maryjk]

Well, first, the conversation they had about moving was not moving without me as I’ve learned. They were talking about moving closer to his parents… But it centered around ME getting a job that could support us.

The other stuff is all true… And what I mean is that I have a hard time understanding how I can feel so depleted in the relationship and he is “happy”. It was more of an observation than anything else…

My point is if he had come to me years ago and said I’m not happy we need to work on xyz … I would have!

It’s like we are living separate lives… Mentally and emotionally.

With everything that he has done and said, you *really *have a hard time understanding that his happiness isn’t tied to you in any way? After just reading through it, it doesn’t surprise me one bit.

In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if I found out that he is even happier when you are sad or upset.

Yes, it is like you are living separate lives.

In my opinion, they aren’t separate enough. In my opinion, it is only a matter of time until he lashes out physically at your or your son.

 

[mega1]

The attorney said no matter what I’ve said or had documented… Most likely we would share custody. So if I leave… It will only make my husband more unstable and then his time with our son will be unsupervised by me.

Yes the attorney knows about the CPS complaint. It won’t matter… Because he did his therapy and has improved.

So, I understand what you are saying, but I can’t protect my son any more than I already am … If I leave… It will certainly teach our son about boundaries etc, but it won’t take my fear away.

 

[marymary1975]

Yelling and screaming, banging things around, being destructive with behavior in car and displaying anger in front of your son like this: All of these are extreme and abusive. They indicate a person who does not have self control. And what for, all over a stupid hockey game and going out to dinner?

Your husband needs counseling all right and plenty of it. I suggest making the appointment for both of you to go and telling him when it is. I would also tell him you consider his past actions abusive and detrimental to your son, so the counseling is a must not an option. Don’t put up with it and let him know you are not going to. He will keep doing it and get worse.

He needs to grow up.

I agree. Your husband’s behavior is not acceptable. What is even worse to me is the fact that your son is watching all this and learning that this behavior is perfectly acceptable. This is extremely damaging to your son. You need to put your foot down and stop this situation for the sake of your son.

 

[The_Bucket]

With everything that he has done and said, you *really *have a hard time understanding that his happiness isn’t tied to you in any way? After just reading through it, it doesn’t surprise me one bit.

In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if I found out that he is even happier when you are sad or upset.

Yes, it is like you are living separate lives.

In my opinion, they aren’t separate enough. In my opinion, it is only a matter of time until he lashes out physically at your or your son.

I would also argue that chances are that he is not “happy” and probably doesn’t understand actual happiness. It’s just that he has some semblance of control over a situation and the boat isn’t rocked too much. So that takes the place of happiness and fulfillment for someone not dealing with a full deck.

This is coming from someone who was psychologically abusive to other people. Never physically. But the yelling? The passive aggressiveness? The “make the other person feel bad for bringing up X, Y, Z?” Yeah, that was me. It still is me sometimes. You know what the problem was? Not anybody else. The problem was and continues to be me. A pornography addiction exacerbated the problem, but I have concluded that I am simply a very self-absorbed, selfish person.

I am very likely not a sociopath, but I know that I have a few tendencies that go in that direction. It requires effort to reel in my attitude and behavior. Not effort on my wife’s part or anything, but real self-control. Actual internal actions to stop myself from lashing out or being resentful or passive-aggressive because my instincts are bad. It has taken nearly two years to just get to this position by the way. More years ahead to rewire myself so that my instincts are something approaching empathetic.

What was the impetus for a change? My wife leaving. Her leaving a note saying she loves me but that she was scared of me. And you know what? She was right. I scared myself. And keep in mind there was never a physical incident with anyone. And I never actually insulted her or berated her or directly blamed her for anything. Just yelled a lot in general. And I repeatedly said that I had a problem, but lied about said problem all the time. That I had a crisis of faith or something… which I did, but it was due to porn addiction. Not like I was going to be honest about that!

Anyway, my point is that I have some experience with being a totally crazy and, frankly, evil person. And what I’m saying is that these other posters are correct. You are enabling abhorrent and dangerous behavior. You should focus on protecting yourself and your son. The only person who can change your husband, OP, is him. It’s quite evident that he’s not interested in doing that. And even if he became interested in it right now, it will take a very, very long time to transform into a normal human being. Or at least someone who is striving to be a normal person.

I’m not a psychologist and have no idea if a sociopath can be “retrained.” But I do know that they are dangerous. They, like all people, deserve love. But we can love say, violent offenders, while they remain imprisoned for the safety of the public.

 

[The_Bucket]

So, I understand what you are saying, but I can’t protect my son any more than I already am … If I leave… It will certainly teach our son about boundaries etc, but it won’t take my fear away.

Straight up, there is anything that is going to take your fear away? If there’s a restraining order? If you’re in another country? If he’s actually locked up in jail or something? I’m guessing probably not.

And given that… why the heck would you think that being closer to him makes you safer? That’s a classic abused person’s mindset.

 

[mega1]

The Bucket,

That was a very raw, honest post and it really really helped me understand. Thank you for telling me all of that and honestly, it makes me feel I’m not alone. I ALSO feel evil and harmful on the inside. However, no one would know. My actions and thoughts are only harmful to myself. As my therapist says… The damage has COST me in so many areas of my life. I’d leave a job I was happy at because I wanted more drama to take away from the drama at home… It has left us moving all over the country in a short amount of time. I wanted the next best job and promotion to get my parents approval … But that never came either.

As for my husband, he sounds a lot like you were. Fine and doscile as long as no one pushed you.

My husband seems to have a problem with being questioned or talked down to. He feels any words of insight or suggestions on xyz question him. And that’s when he gets angry.

If no one questions him… There are no problems. He’s as calm as a cucumber.

As for the safety… I meant it would be better for me to be WITH my son and husband. That way I can monitor what he does or says to our son. If my son wasn’t in the picture, I would have left long ago.

 

[The_Bucket]

As for my husband, he sounds a lot like you were. Fine and doscile as long as no one pushed you.

No offense, but that’s nonsense. I was fine provided that nothing in the entire universe was going any differently than I wanted. Basically, if everything was going my way, sure I was happy and content. The instant something even slightly annoyed me, I couldn’t deal with it.

I’m sure it had a lot to do with growing up in a house with a sex addict for a father and a codependent mother that didn’t have, well, the guts to walk away and leave that terrible behavior behind. It greatly scarred me and my five siblings. It led to trust issues that two of my sisters are just now dealing with… in their late and mid 20s, respectively. Torpedoed any chance of them having normal relationships with men up to this point.

And it taught me, subconsciously, that pornography was a way to deal with anxiety. And that, of course, led to more anxiety due to the sin and an awesome, just awesome, death spiral into addiction and insanity.

My husband seems to have a problem with being questioned or talked down to. He feels any words of insight or suggestions on xyz question him. And that’s when he gets angry.

Yes, I am likewise very, very defensive. And that’s because I genuinely did not and still kind of do not like myself. I am far from a self-assured person. I am generally either in love with myself or loathing myself. It is not a stable situation. That’s why I’m in a recovery program and have been since May 2012.

If no one questions him… There are no problems. He’s as calm as a cucumber.

And yet his behavior is crazy erratic based on your previous posts. He’s not “fine” as long as he gets his way… his way is totally crazy and he lashes out if you and the rest of the world don’t go along with it. Which it never will, by the way.

As for the safety… I meant it would be better for me to be WITH my son and husband. That way I can monitor what he does or says to our son. If my son wasn’t in the picture, I would have left long ago.

Right. And I’m saying that this mindset is the mindset of someone who is being abused. “I can monitor it if I’m closer.” “He won’t be as bad if I’m nearby.” I’m sorry; that’s not a normal thing to think. It’s normal for an abused person to think, but someone who has a sober, clear-minded view of the situation could realize that’s not a good idea and there are a plethora of other solutions to keep your son safe if your husband had visitation.

Heck, a sober-minded person would realize that such a scenario is months/years down the road and not worth worrying about right now… that what you should be worried about is the present and let the future deal with itself later.

The bottom line is… no you’re not crazy. But he is. And there is absolutely nothing you can do to fix him or even mitigate the craziness. So why are you trying to do something that can’t be done?

 

[NFPWife]

I’ve read your other posts and see you as continually wanting to get perspective on your husband’s behavior. To me, and other readers, this isn’t a new event, this is another example of the same pattern/ sequence; you seem to be treating each incident as unique. You seem pretty intent on staying, so you need a safety plan and a better way to manage these incidents. After you establish the safety with your therapist; I think what you need to evaluate with your therapist is where in these sequences you’re paying off your husband’s behavior. For instance, he didn’t want to go to dinner, he throws a fit, and he doesn’t have to go to dinner. Was the game still on? Did he get to watch that too?

My point is if he had come to me years ago and said I’m not happy we need to work on xyz … I would have!

Here’s a hard truth - he doesn’t care about your happiness. He cares about placating you so he can maintain this set up. You keep asking him if he’s happy - of course he’s happy. You’re the breadwinner, he works very little and at only the things he wants to, you took a financial fall for him, he has a new car, etc. etc. You’re acting as if he’s not going to be happy unless you’re happy. I’m sorry to say - he’s not that man. Many have suggested to you that he’s not capable of caring about your happiness. They are likely right.

It’s like we are living separate lives… Mentally and emotionally.

Don’t forget financially. He didn’t even attend the bankruptcy hearing to support you and encouraged you to do something unethical to get a better outcome. You should thank your lucky stars that they took a closer look – you could have had serious legal complications if it ever came up. That’s not even considering that it’s immoral. Spouses are supposed to help each other get to Heaven, help keep each other on the path, NOT encourage them down the wrong path.

The bottom line is that you need a new way to respond to him when he throws these fits. The more they “work” for him, the more you’ll see them. Also, be careful, he’s likely to increase his behavior when you first make changes. You have to be prepared for that.

Know you’re in my prayers.

 

[agnes_therese]

.
As for the safety… I meant it would be better for me to be WITH my son and husband. That way I can monitor what he does or says to our son.

Yes, you can. You can continue to monitor, while your husband continues to teach your son that the way he behaves is acceptable. And someday, when your son marries, another woman will go through exactly what you’re going through. Is that what you want?

 

[mega1]

I went to therapy again today and the therapist said many, many of the same things you all have said here.

There’s a pattern…
You shrink into denial…
Why does this behavior continuously surprise you?
Do you think he’s willing to change?
Do you think that he is teaching your son a good example of how to treat a woman?

I think the REAL problem here is his reaction to my request for better communication etc (and counseling) was very defiant.
He reluctantly agreed to therapy again, but I don’t have to be a brain surgeon to know that the therapy isn’t going to do anything lasting and helpful.
Yes, I’ll still make the appointment (he said he would, but still hasn’t).
I just know that there is little I can do about this behavior.

My therapist pointed out to me that while I say he is normally calm and cool…unless pushed…is not exactly accurate…

That’s because that she believes my definition of “pushed” is not the way others “normal” would define it.

Basically, all I have to do is speak my feelings…in opposition to him (even at small levels) and I typically get the sarcastic…“I know better than you” attitude.

And the thing that is VERY clear…is that he consistently gets very very angry when someone questions him. He doesn’t like to be told that he’s wrong or even questioned.

As long as I live in that little space where I don’t question him etc…things are calm.

But, I’ve done that for over a decade now and it’s getting exhausting.

Therapy is helping. Thank you for helping me open my eyes, too.