Would you consider this abusive or extreme?

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Thanks, The Bucket.

I guess I wonder if there is any blame on me… There. Is this a problem over how I’m making him feel?

I just responded with … I know you are working hard too, but I just mean you are lucky you don’t have to deal with my bosses…"

He didn’t really respond.
 
If you hadn’t detailed a very elaborate, disgusting and horrifying pattern of abuse on his part, I’d say “maybe he’s a little sensitive given his job situation” but that’s about it.

But given the background, I’d say that it is an absolute certainty that it’s him trying to make you feel guilty in order to regain the upper hand and reassume control of the relationship so he can continue to abuse you.

And if anyone wants to say that I’m veering into “health” here given that I’m not a psychologist or anything… I’m simply placing myself in the husband’s position and consider what I would be doing about three years ago.
 
The_Bucket said:
That’s classic behavior. Turning it around on you. Don’t fall for that trap.
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Mega,

Praying for you just wanted to let you know. I’ve had lots of experience with manipulators hold strong and don’t fall for his tactics.
 
Thank you. To be honest, I really struggle because my husband is very good at making things seem so easy and carefree … When we are in a “good mode”.

This weekend was a great example. He was sweet as pie. He kept rubbing my back… Being a doting husband. We spent a great deal of time at kid’s games etc.

All was calm and fine.

I lose my ability to be strong and even angry (over the past) when this happens.

I have therapy today and I am certain we will talk about that. She asked me to make a list of what I get out of the relationship. That’s my assignment right now.
 
mega1 said:
Thank you. To be honest, I really struggle because my husband is very good at making things seem so easy and carefree … When we are in a “good mode”.

This weekend was a great example. He was sweet as pie. He kept rubbing my back… Being a doting husband. We spent a great deal of time at kid’s games etc.

All was calm and fine.
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Obviously he has plenty of experience manipulating you and probably other people as well.
I lose my ability to be strong and even angry (over the past) when this happens.
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And that’s the point. Even if he’s not consciously doing it, this is the point. He wants to get it back to “all clear” so that he can resume doing what he does. Trust me, I’ve literally been there and done it.

The question is… if he really wants to change and be the good man he’s acting like right now, why isn’t he seeking help? Why didn’t he get help before? The answer is pretty obvious; he doesn’t think he has a problem. Everyone else has a problem, he doesn’t. Right?
 
Yes, that’s true.

I will say that my therapist told me today that I have made enough of a “case” that ANYONE could see that I am being mistreated. She said since I am fully aware of the PATTERNS of problems that have continued for YEARS, that I have to recognize that he isn’t going to change. He didn’t make the therapy appt from 2 weeks ago etc. He’s not actively trying to improve HIMSELF in any way…other than “getting by…”

Anyway, she told me that she didn’t think she’d ever heard from any of her clients such a consistent pattern of major problems and manipulation, and that if I want to STAY In the marriage, she understands and supports me…but that I can no longer complain about him. That I am choosing to stay in the situation and accepting it and I need to stop complaining about it…as if that would change him. Since it won’t…

She again today told me she didn’t understand how I wasn’t in a psych ward…that I have handled so much chaos and that I refuse to see that I WON’T fall apart…when I’m apart from him.

I haven’t been to her more than 6 or 7 times now, but I do get scared. I told her I am still very nervous…since I don’t want to rock the boat for our son.

She was very concerned for our son…saying that she sees consistent evidence of major boundary crossing from my husband to our son…

I suppose even those here on this objective - distant - website - could probably agree with her?
 
mega1 said:
Yes, that’s true.

I will say that my therapist told me today that I have made enough of a “case” that ANYONE could see that I am being mistreated. She said since I am fully aware of the PATTERNS of problems that have continued for YEARS, that I have to recognize that he isn’t going to change. He didn’t make the therapy appt from 2 weeks ago etc. He’s not actively trying to improve HIMSELF in any way…other than “getting by…”

Anyway, she told me that she didn’t think she’d ever heard from any of her clients such a consistent pattern of major problems and manipulation, and that if I want to STAY In the marriage, she understands and supports me…but that I can no longer complain about him. That I am choosing to stay in the situation and accepting it and I need to stop complaining about it…as if that would change him. Since it won’t…

She again today told me she didn’t understand how I wasn’t in a psych ward…that I have handled so much chaos and that I refuse to see that I WON’T fall apart…when I’m apart from him.

I haven’t been to her more than 6 or 7 times now, but I do get scared. I told her I am still very nervous…since I don’t want to rock the boat for our son.

She was very concerned for our son…saying that she sees consistent evidence of major boundary crossing from my husband to our son…

I suppose even those here on this objective - distant - website - could probably agree with her?
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Mega1,

I’m proud of you for being stronger then your curcumstances. We are often stronger then we think we are and can endure more than we ever dreamed. You came to a crossroad and was able to say to yourself. I’m not going to crack and give in I’m going to plow forward and get through this and see the truth of what is really going on.
 
Thank you.

In therapy, I had to make a list of pros and cons. My “pro” is that the sense of family and stability and safety for our son.

Therapist thinks I’m in denial in thinking I am really in a family where there is safety and stability.

I guess I just can’t understand why I can’t feel the need to escape like so many have suggested.

Paralyzed by fear, I suppose.

Therapist sound on par? It’s scary taking such strong advice from someone you MUST trust.
 
mega1 said:
Thank you.

In therapy, I had to make a list of pros and cons. My “pro” is that the sense of family and stability and safety for our son.

Therapist thinks I’m in denial in thinking I am really in a family where there is safety and stability.

I guess I just can’t understand why I can’t feel the need to escape like so many have suggested.

Paralyzed by fear, I suppose.

Therapist sound on par? It’s scary taking such strong advice from someone you MUST trust.
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Yes, Mega 1, I think you are definitely in denial. As for the fear – yes, I agree. When I left my first husband, after 24 years of physical, mental and verbal abuse I was ABSOLUTELY TERRIFIED TO LEAVE. It was so much easier to stay – it was familiar, I wanted to have a stable home, I wanted to be a wife. BUT, I also had to face the fact, which the Bishop & my Priest both bluntly told me – you’ll die if you don’t get out, if you don’t suicide first! That sort of scared me enough to go ahead and get out. I had a friend from my Parish, along with two hefty men from the Parish sitting in front of the house while I packed my clothes and books – he saw them outside (I left the front door open, and actually opened a couple of windows so they could hear if I screamed) and just stood in the middle of the living room, near the door, making me go around him to get things out, but he realized they were sitting right there to protect me and call the cops if necessary.

It’s always scary as “all get out” to make a major change in your life! Even the day a Bride gets married is nerve-wracking, however much she may be in love! Change of your entire life is always scary. Don’t let it paralyze you. Do you want your son to end up with his Dad’s values and personality traits and treat a wife exactly the same, and be just as selfish, making her support him, make all decisions while he sits at home and occasionally rubs her back or cooks dinner??? He will, if he grows up with this constant example of “manhood”.

How many “cons” were on your list??? If the only “pro” was a stable “family life”, it’s not a very strong one. Neither is having a live-in babysitter/ cook / masseuse! This is not a “stable family life”. It is an abnormal family life – it’s not really even a “family” – it’s you holding things together!.
I still expect you to get stronger and leave, and provide your son with some good, strong values of what manhood and marriage should be! You really are stronger than you think – most women are! Look at what I went through, and I became strong enough to leave, although I ended living in one room and bath in a parishioner’s house for several months, then a one bedroom apartment. My “support” awarded by the court, which included 1/2 the value of our home (valued back then at $80,000 which I paid the payments on) was $75/month for one year! And, because by the time I got to court (which was 6 months later), that state had a law that I had to have medical documents proving abuse WITHIN THE PAST 4 WEEKS! – nothing at all could be done, although I know the judge believed me, the LAW was against me, & the judge would not give me part of his military retirement. I never, ever regretted it, although I spent a couple of years living on a very small budget, in a small apt., and later taking care of my elderly parents (again living in one room with bath). It was such a relief to have the lack of fear, anxiety, & especially tension (walking on eggshells all the time) and all the other problems I’d lived with for 24 years.
To be able to make a cup of tea, to read a book when I wanted to, and not have to worry about what HE demanded or wanted was SO GREAT!!! Hang on with the therapy – sounds like you have a good one this time! Of course she’ll support you if you want to remain - that’s her job.
YOUR JOB is to make the decision whether to live this way the rest of your life, shut your mouth and end up with a total nervous and physical breakdown, or get out and start a new life with your son!! You make enough money by yourself to get a good babysitter through your Parish community, cut down your hours some (you won’t need as much money since you’re not supporting a husband) and enjoy your son while he’s young and flexible enough to learn a better way to live! I am also Catholic, don’t believe in divorce, but when the BISHOP told me to GET OUT and get a civil divorce, I knew he took it very seriously indeed!
 
I think the hardest struggle for me…is that my situation isn’t as severe as yours was. Gosh, I’m so sorry you had to go through that…but I’m also very happy that you made it through stronger and better!

If I were to leave right now, my husband would end up spending more time with my son than I would. Attorney says that since I work so much in the “prime” hours, I really could end up with just seeing him on the weekends. I know it doesn’t make sense, but in this state, I guess that’s the way things roll…

Also, we would end up causing more financial stress and probably need to move again. My son has lived in 6 houses in the last 2 years. He’s finally in this house (current) and he is really thriving there…he has a pool, has friends over…seems so happy right now. I just look at him and think…what would leaving do to him?

He loves me…he seems to adore me when I’m around, but he also loves his dad very much. He coaches his sports…he knows all the parents at school. He’s just your typical stay at home dad…but he is bringing in some money.

I just think after talking to a lawyer, that if I leave – It will be for me. My son will probably end up with more time with his dad and I will end up on my own a lot of the time.

Is that best for all of us? Possibly – but I just love that kid so much.
 
Mega 1 — I’d ask your therapist about this — regardless of the “state law” regarding “prime hours”, I’d think her testimony at a custody hearing would count more heavily than you think!! She might also know of an attorney who could help you in this way. Is your son having a pool more important than his learning how to be a true man and husband? He will realize, as he gets older, that his Dad is just living off of you, and that will be his example of manhood. Is that your preference – that the son you love so much will marry someday, and expect his wife to support him while he “plays” at being a “consultant” or stay-at-home Dad himself? Or perhaps will even prefer not to have children at all to avoid losing any income, even for a couple of months and have to change diapers himself? I think he, as a teen, will have a very skewed idea of manhood, marriage and marital responsibilities. Children are more flexible than you believe when it comes to a new house – he may still be able to stay in the same general area, but without a really fancy, expensive house, and a much more stable home with better examples of manhood provided by childcare from a Catholic babysitter and time with other youngsters at a local parish and perhaps even sports with kids from the local parish. Talk to your therapist about this. Sounds like more excuses to just “let things ride”, while the stress continues to build on you. How will he do with his Dad if his Mom dies of overwork and overstress???

Also, is it truly necessary for you to work 60 to 70 hours a week? You seem to have an excellent education, but your job is taking more time and energy away from your beloved son! Perhaps 40 hours a week, or even 45, on regular daytime hours, would provide sufficient income to have a decent rental home (although without a pool and 6 extra rooms in the house with all the bells & whistles) and a babysitter for when he gets out of school until you get home a couple of hours later. Then YOU could be with him every evening and on weekends, and Dad can have one weekend a month! Don’t worry about the Dad – he’ll find someone else to support him if you don’t!
Sorry for being so blunt, but maybe you need to think about these things instead of making excuses to “just get along”, and I’m sure you’re scared silly of making any major changes, which is perfectly human and normal. Bravery comes in a lot of different forms and flavors!
 
judynurse said:
Mega 1 — I’d ask your therapist about this — regardless of the “state law” regarding “prime hours”, I’d think her testimony at a custody hearing would count more heavily than you think!! She might also know of an attorney who could help you in this way. Is your son having a pool more important than his learning how to be a true man and husband? He will realize, as he gets older, that his Dad is just living off of you, and that will be his example of manhood. Is that your preference – that the son you love so much will marry someday, and expect his wife to support him while he “plays” at being a “consultant” or stay-at-home Dad himself? Or perhaps will even prefer not to have children at all to avoid losing any income, even for a couple of months and have to change diapers himself? I think he, as a teen, will have a very skewed idea of manhood, marriage and marital responsibilities. Children are more flexible than you believe when it comes to a new house – he may still be able to stay in the same general area, but without a really fancy, expensive house, and a much more stable home with better examples of manhood provided by childcare from a Catholic babysitter and time with other youngsters at a local parish and perhaps even sports with kids from the local parish. Talk to your therapist about this. Sounds like more excuses to just “let things ride”, while the stress continues to build on you. How will he do with his Dad if his Mom dies of overwork and overstress???

Also, is it truly necessary for you to work 60 to 70 hours a week? You seem to have an excellent education, but your job is taking more time and energy away from your beloved son! Perhaps 40 hours a week, or even 45, on regular daytime hours, would provide sufficient income to have a decent rental home (although without a pool and 6 extra rooms in the house with all the bells & whistles) and a babysitter for when he gets out of school until you get home a couple of hours later. Then YOU could be with him every evening and on weekends, and Dad can have one weekend a month! Don’t worry about the Dad – he’ll find someone else to support him if you don’t!
Sorry for being so blunt, but maybe you need to think about these things instead of making excuses to “just get along”, and I’m sure you’re scared silly of making any major changes, which is perfectly human and normal. Bravery comes in a lot of different forms and flavors!
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Mega1 I totally agree with what you are saying. I dated a guy like your husband for awhile and kept making excuses for his rude or controlling behavior. I eventually had enough and broke up with him. He later married his ex who now happily supports him. Some men what a free ride and total control.
 
My husband is really working at networking his business now and texting me telling me that he and my son love me SO much.

I almost texted back… Great! Now please make a therapy appt.

One thing that I’m confused about… My therapist says that I can no longer spend time complaining about my husband… That I can’t complain about him since I have already established the problems and his lack of interest In making lasting change.

Does that sound fair?
 
mega1 said:
My husband is really working at networking his business now and texting me telling me that he and my son love me SO much.

I almost texted back… Great! Now please make a therapy appt.

One thing that I’m confused about… My therapist says that I can no longer spend time complaining about my husband… That I can’t complain about him since I have already established the problems and his lack of interest In making lasting change.

Does that sound fair?
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Sounds like she’s trying to get you off the track of repeatedly going over and over the same complaints - endlessly. Time now to think of solutions and answers, not complaints. I think she’s trying to move you to the next level. You’ve been stuck on the complaints long enough, and perhaps she feels they are becoming a “comfort zone” for you – i.e., each time you repeat the complaints, you feel better but don’t move any further forward, just stuck in the same rut. I think she’s trying to jog you out of that comfortable rut! Ask her!!
 
mega1 said:
My husband is really working at networking his business now and texting me telling me that he and my son love me SO much.

I almost texted back… Great! Now please make a therapy appt.

One thing that I’m confused about… My therapist says that I can no longer spend time complaining about my husband… That I can’t complain about him since I have already established the problems and his lack of interest In making lasting change.

Does that sound fair?
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Yes, it’s fair. You need to take action not just complain. So your therapist is trying to get you to focus on solutions instead of staying stuck.
 
judynurse said:
Sounds like she’s trying to get you off the track of repeatedly going over and over the same complaints - endlessly. Time now to think of solutions and answers, not complaints. I think she’s trying to move you to the next level. You’ve been stuck on the complaints long enough, and perhaps she feels they are becoming a “comfort zone” for you – i.e., each time you repeat the complaints, you feel better but don’t move any further forward, just stuck in the same rut. I think she’s trying to jog you out of that comfortable rut! Ask her!!
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My thoughts exactly. S/he (I’m not sure I read for certain your therapist is female) is trying to move you to action. You know how Yoda says, “Do or do not, there is no try.” Your therapist is saying “Leave or leave not, there is no b****.” 🙂 To be frank, it’s a bit of a time and money waster for you to go in and kvetch. You should either be planning how to safely extricate yourself from this or be focused on how to make things better by requiring things of your husband and setting expectations.

And texting back to say, “Great, get a therapy appointment” would have been totally appropriate. It’s reasonable to tell your husband what “love” looks like right now. He senses that you’re exasperated and fed up, this is the point in the cycle where you have the most power. (Not that you have a lot, but, comparatively, it’s the most you ever have.) Use it appropriately and wisely, with your therapist’s guidance.
 
mega1 said:
One thing that I’m confused about… My therapist says that I can no longer spend time complaining about my husband… That I can’t complain about him since I have already established the problems and his lack of interest In making lasting change.

Does that sound fair?
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A complaint identifies the problem.

You have more than identified the problem.

Now it is time to take steps to solve the problem.

So yes, it sounds more than fair. In fact, I would have expected your therapist to lay down that rule after the first or second session.
 
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