SPXII,
I wrote a long response to your statements and it, apparently, was too large. Therefore I am going to reply individually without your quotes. You can go back and re-read the individual statements I addressed if you so desire.
First and foremost, you do not belong in this thread. The OP asked the following question “If hypothetically, the Pope called for a military crusade, would you join it?” By your own admission, you are an Eastern Orthodox member, and therefore do not fall under the authority of the Pope. Ergo, the question of responding to a Crusade does not involve you in the least.
Innocent people die every day. Innocent people have died since Adam populated this earth. Hasn’t changed from then until now, it’s not going to change until Jesus comes back. Why innocents die is not for you or I to justify. Evil aggression has killed many more innocents than collateral damage in all the wars put together
Your Pearl Harbor/Nagasaki-Hiroshima comparison is absurd. Pearl Harbor was a completely unprovoked act of evil aggression, plain and simple. If you think innocents did not die in Pearl Harbor, I suggest you re-read history. Also, the atomic strikes on the Japanese cities prevented an extended war and a continued loss of “innocent” lives. Do you honestly think the Japanese civilians would not have given the allies resistance once the allies landed on the Japanese mainland?
That’s not what your statement alluded to. Occupation. Huge difference.
I don’t see where war is never right. I believe war should be avoided if at all possible, but I also firmly believe there are times when it is not possible to avoid.
Your “realm of the unforgivable” worries me. I didn’t get the memo where you were the judge on what was and was not unforgivable. How you feel you can dictate what indulgences eradicate, or who and how martyrs are classified is not your decision. Last time I checked our martyrs were decided by our Church. Not the (name removed by moderator)ut of lay Christians who are not part of the Latin Rite.
Cowards stay behind women and children. The Palestinians are a good example. In fact, any of the islamic radical fundamentalists are good examples. Martyrs may not die “with sword in hand” but many a saintly martyr has used a sword in the name of God. I guess the name of St. Joan of Arc is unknown to you. Shall I name others?
I loved the one about how “it hasn’t been God who called the Crusades”. I guess you were there and can refute history from your first hand experience. Is there no end to your arrogance?
Oh, and I’m sure you are on His speed dial so when and if He does call a Crusade, you will know it was from Him and you can retract all of your statements humbly. Besides, He’ll call Catholics so you may not get the memo. Fret not, we’ll take care of it for you.
Anyone with any sense would agree that wars are best if completely prevented. However as long as there is evil in the world, wars will happen. When they do, there needs to be those who protect the innocent along with those who cannot protect themselves. If we hadn’t in the past, we would still be greeting each other with Sieg Heil!!
I’m surprised to read you don’t have all the answers. That’s not the message you’re trying to convey here.
My Church will decide if and when modern warfare is permissible. If the situation degrades to the point that a Crusade is a serious consideration, contingency plans will be in place. The Church is not lead by idiots but rather very intelligent people. People who are more than capable of planning all eventualities.
“and cannot be viewed as the standard, apostolic view of the matter.”
One Holy, apostolic Church. period.
So you want to force the Church to take an extreme stance?? The Church does not entirely reject pacifism but rather feels there is room for those individuals who feel peace at all costs is their mantra as well as just war. It’s not either or, there is room for both. Also, wartime popes aside? So again, we’re making exceptions when it suits our convenience.
Side with human dignity. If your “human dignity” is against the official stance of the Catholic Church, then suffer the consequences. Besides, “disagreeing” with war is, again,
not the issue. Rather it is going against the Church and her directives, or even better, a divine call.
How a martyr dies is irrelevant. A martyr dies
for their religion. So if God calls a pacifist martyr to die through suffering then how is that different then if He has a martyr die through unfailing service of the Church through a Crusade. You are not the judge on how a martyr “should” die.
God has asked many to die via the sword. His decision is final, not your opinion.
Doesn’t change the fact that you’ve never experienced war. Guilt or not, you don’t know what it is like and, therefore, cannot say how easy it is to die. You don’t know how easy it is to die. You’ve never been there.
Your “jesuit” was wrong.
I can see why.
Total Faith, total commitment. If you can’t make that total commitment, don’t fall back on your own personal justifications.
Are you a seer? Can you predict the future? It’s easy for a Pope to make decisions about the past. Hindsight is always 20/20. But they weren’t considered mistakes at the time. No one on earth is perfect. It is learning from those mistakes where the growth and development comes into play.
Figures.
Didn’t make a good point. Only pointed out how you don’t have a leg to stand on.
Peace.
But the real point of this thread is would you be obedient if the Church called you to do something you question. Ultimately that is a choice in each person’s soul and who are we to judge. Well we are human to judge so you call me a warmonger and I’ll call you a coward, (though neither of us is either