Would you like to see a phasing out of the Novus Ordo Missae leading to a return to only the TLM?

[Brian777]

I don’t think my church believes that. Not only does one not need to be CAtholic - one needn’t even be Christian OR believe in God at all.

In RCIA they said Muslims, Hindus, even Atheists can be saved and then the Priest did this demonstration of a blind person being led through the “door” by a person who can see (persumably a Christian but maybe he meant Jesus?) - so the bottom line was anyone & everyone can make it to heaven if they are “good” but it’s still through Jesus even if they didn’t give beans about Him while they were alive.

Not sure I believe that. I think while it’s “possible” - it’s a long shot at best. But that’s just my personal opinion…

are we allowed to have opinions?

Are you saying the person leading the “blind guy through the door” would HAVE to be Catholic - not Jesus? That’s even more confusing…because isn’t that different from what the church teaches today?

ok well this is one of the major problems that has surfaced since Vat-2, even though the Church re-affirmed in Luman Gentium, a Vat-2 document, the age-old teaching on Salvation (hint my sig is the *general *rule). When it comes to Salvation the Gospels give
a rather clear cut, black and white doctrine, particularly the Gospel of St. John. I suggest either reading the Gospel itself or watching the movie The Gospel of John. The basic Catholic belief is that if you willingly reject the Truth or bacome malicious toward it with or wothout sufficient knowledge of it, you are seriously jeapordizing your chances at Salvation. Read the Salvation section on the front page of this site. Home, salvation, outside the Church or something like that… and pray, thats the key, pray.

 

[holdencaulfield]

@Brian777:

I will pray for you discernment. Also pray to St. Thomas Aquinas for this.

 

[luvlife]

What does FSSP mean?

 

[Brian777]

Yes I hate High School as well. Public schooling is so terrible. May I ask what type of seminary you would like to attend. I would suggest a FSSP one if you want to get a true understanding of the faith. Or perhaps a SSPX one if they have returned to full Communion by the time you are out of school.

well, I have been considering the FSSP or the Institute of Christ the King, but i truly feel called to the diocesan priesthood, and Pittsburgh’s seminary is very orthodox, i mean like i said the rector is the one who explained the truth on salvation to me in a way that didnt include the general bull about God loving everyone and having infinite mercy that contradicts his justice and whatnot.

About the SSPX, I actually heard that they are in communion, just not like completely. Its confusing i guess, but a Catholic can attend their liturgies for his/her Sunday obligation. God be praised (never been…yet)

 

[Brian777]

What does FSSP mean?

Its an anagram(?) for the Latin words which translated mean, “The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter” they were originally part of the SSPX, but then decided to except every Vat-2 idea in exchenge for a shky permission to say the TLM indefinately. I believe however that it can be taken away, but i dont think we need to worry since the Motu proprio cam out Halleluja!

 

[Brian777]

“Pope Eugene IV proclaimed the Bull Cantate Domino Infallibly during the Council of Florence. The entire Church accepted this, even the Eastern Orthodox Bishops, although they latter decided to schism, it’s odd that the people that agreed to no Salvation outside the Church willfully left it.”

Wait, the Great Schism was in 1054. The Council of Florence was in 1441… just lettin you know:thumbsup:

 

[saint_rafael]

You have a unique perspective on the use of statistics and how to make them support your opinion.

Attendance at Mass has also plummeted. A 1958 Gallup poll reported that 74 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1958. A 1994 University of Notre Dame study found that the attendance rate was 26.6 percent. A more recent study by Fordham University professor James Lothian concluded that 65 percent of Catholics went to Sunday Mass in 1965, while the rate dropped to 25 percent in 2000.

unavoce.org/articles/2003/interview_with_ken_jones.htm

**I suggest people read the article above about Ken Jones and his book " Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church since Vatican II." **It gives aclear picture of the crisis and decadence.

The hard numbers do not lie and even most Churchmen acknowledge their truth.
The Church is in serious problems, when overwhelmingly more than two-thirds of her members do not attend the liturgy that was supposed to bring in a new “springtime”.

As a Catholic who has actively lived out his faith for the last three years while spending a couple of years of having no faith, I understand the other side of the vast loss of faith and decadence not only in the world itself, but in the Church.

**If you know the times are bad, I am telling you they are twenty times worse than you think. **
Lefebvre got it right when he said we are in “a state of emergency”.
We are living in the times of the third secret of Fatima.
Fr. Malachi Martin said the central part of the secret was really awful.

 

[catharina]

ask your priest who is worthy of Salvation if he doesnt answer with the quote form Cantate Domino posted below or a paraphrase of it, then its a liberal parish…

Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441
The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

note there are exceptions to the rule, this is noted as early as the 2nd and 3rd centuries by many fathers of the church, but in general this is the official teaching on salvation

Brian, your first paragraph begins with a question that one should propose to a priest: “ask your priest who is worthy of Salvation.”

I’m a 62 yr-old Roman Catholic and I’ve never heard ANY Catholic teaching that says that ANY ONE OF US is worthy of salvation.

Who is worthy of salvation? NO ONE.

Salvation is always, first and last, a GIFT.

Whatever are you thinking???

 

[catharina]

However the point still stands the Novus Ordo is a plague on the Church and must be stopped. How this is to be done, I do not know, however nothing good has come out of it.

holden, por amor de Dios!

THINK long before you speak (post).

IMO, it is grievously wrong to state what you’ve said.

Were you attempting to say that abuses of the Mass, including any abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass, are a plague on the Church?

The next sentence, censuring the HOLY Sacrifice of the Mass, (“nothing good has come …”) is shocking. Perhaps we need to meditate a bit more and post a bit less.

 

[holdencaulfield]

What does FSSP mean?

FSSP is the abbreviation for Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri a Catholic organization that is committed to keeping the Traditional Catholic Faith alive and away from heresy. Here is their website. FSSP

 

[holdencaulfield]

“Pope Eugene IV proclaimed the Bull Cantate Domino Infallibly during the Council of Florence. The entire Church accepted this, even the Eastern Orthodox Bishops, although they latter decided to schism, it’s odd that the people that agreed to no Salvation outside the Church willfully left it.”

Wait, the Great Schism was in 1054. The Council of Florence was in 1441… just lettin you know:thumbsup:

Yes it was however the purpose of the Council of Florence was to reunite the two Churches and to back up basic Catholic doctrine. All of the Eastern Orthodox Bishops were there, as well as the Byzantine Emperor and the Patriarch of Constantinople. All the Bishops there agreed to the doctrine set forth in the Council of Florence except for Mark of Ephesus.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Yes I meant the Novus Ordo abuses and the bad that has come from it like people being less reverent.

 

[catharina]

What does FSSP mean?

It’s a union of intital letters in the words that mean: Fraternitas Sacerdotalis Sancti Petri (Fraternal Society of Saint Peter. This society was made available to priests who wished to separate themselves from sspx after the excommunication of its founder Marcel Lefebvre and the bishops he’d consecrated AGAINST the will of the Holy Father.

The priests in this new society are faithful to Rome.

 

[Jeanette_L]

holden, por amor de Dios!

THINK long before you speak (post).

IMO, it is grievously wrong to state what you’ve said.

Were you attempting to say that abuses of the Mass, including any abuses in the Novus Ordo Mass, are a plague on the Church?

The next sentence, censuring the HOLY Sacrifice of the Mass, (“nothing good has come …”) is shocking. Perhaps we need to meditate a bit more and post a bit less.

This too is what alarms me about so many within this movement who have allowed their emotions, their passions to get the better of them. They say horrid things against the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Holy Mother Church and the Holy Father, and it doesn’t even phase them. It shows how far away rebellion can take a soul.

 

[catharina]

However the point still stands the Novus Ordo is a plague on the Church and must be stopped. How this is to be done, I do not know, however nothing good has come out of it.

holden, again IMO, the fact that I chose to speak and clean up both your thinking and your language is all well and good but it means nothing unless you choose to do the same.

Will you revise this post of yours, PLEASE? At times you say the most SHOCKING things.

 

[pnewton]

This is why I would advise any Converts, especially young people to not take the RCIA to instead see if you can research privately especially with a real Catholic priest for example an FSSP priest.

What in the world do you mean by a “real priest.” For your information, I went through the RCIA with a priest who was ordained as any. I came through with a balanced understanding of the Church and not some extremist slant. The conversion of heart through the RCIA program is much more important than learning bitterness and rhetoric.

 

[pnewton]

The hard numbers do not lie and even most Churchmen acknowledge their truth.

You prove again that Mark Twain was right.

 

[holdencaulfield]

Ok guys sorry I will clean up some of my posts if you like.

 

[CradleCath]

I think the TLM will explode in the next couple of years and the New Mass will be phased out not by choice of the heirarchy, but because few people will attend it.
Priests who learn the TLM will finally understand what it means to be a true sacraficing priest. Once they get a taste of the sacred, why would they want to go back to bad liturgy? They will no longer be presiders, showmen, and the laity won’t infringe in the Mass and profane what belongs to the priesthood, which is the Mass.

People in my generation are flocking to the TLM. Catholics in their 20’s will be intrumental in phasing out the new Mass in the future. Years from now there will be a small demand for the new Mass and it will be attended by small populations of aging baby boomers and Gen. Xers, remnants of a sad and lost generations who will not be revelant after their cultural revolution collapses.

Why don’t you just open up & tell us how you REALLY feel??

BTW., You forgot one group & they led this “reform”… that’s the white-haired hippies of the 60’s, my generation. I, too, believe that the people will choose the TLM., but I think it will take a while longer than you predict. Hopefully, I’m wrong about this, but I’m not sure many of us who mourn what we’ve lost, realize the amt. of opposition we’re facing. Remember, not many of our Bishops are with the Pope on this.

[SIGN]The TLM community in the diocese of Portland Maine were billed for their Mass. They are to be charged $72,000 per year, with an initial $18,000 down payment being due on or before July 1st, only a little over 2 1/2 months from the time this is being written.

The 72-grand will go toward the priest’s salary and benefits, office supplies and, astoundingly, rental of the church. Should anyone think this a joke or simply too outrageous to be believed, the following is presented:

websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/apologia/vpost?id=2625046
[/SIGN]

 

[holdencaulfield]

I pray for the Church. Most people don’t understand how bad the situation is right now.