- Status
K
Kelfa28
Guest
It’s clear her husband is getting help but she hasn’t stated if she is getting help too.
She needs a counselor to help her find that safe place her husband took from her.
She wants the marriage to work but is still hurt by it. She needs professional help…not an arbitrary, one-fits-all timeline to heal.
Say a spouse says…“okay, we’ll wait 4 months” and then they wait 4 months and the time comes and she isn’t ready yet.
Does she go along with it anyway?
She needs a counselor to help her find that safe place her husband took from her.
She wants the marriage to work but is still hurt by it. She needs professional help…not an arbitrary, one-fits-all timeline to heal.
Say a spouse says…“okay, we’ll wait 4 months” and then they wait 4 months and the time comes and she isn’t ready yet.
Does she go along with it anyway?
W
whm
Guest
At least 120 days instead of immediately in response to the OP. A minimum not a maximum. In other words I was suggesting to the OP wife who sounded like she wanted to continue relations immediately, that it might be better to wait for at least 120 days so that they are not reinforcing porn desires with marital relations (counter productive). Hope that helps.
K
Kelfa28
Guest
Thank-you.
I just went back and found your original post about it.
It is an interesting argument…especially if the OP really wants to resume intimacy with her husband.
It might work for her…but I don’t think this is something that should be suggested to everyone suffering from a marriage damaged by pornography.
A
alphawoman
Guest
I fail to see the issue you have. Labeling a problem of a poster espousing a mysogynistic perspective, yet portraying it as Catholic values, is neither inappropriate nor against forum rules. It is categorizing an argument on its merits. If language used by a poster (Burt Macklin) reveals a dislike or distrust of women, it is, by definition, mysogynistic.
Likewise, if arguments made follow a template typically used by [insert your vice here] addicts, then it is relevant and reasonable to label the language as such. The whole point of the thread is to discuss how to deal with addiction. Identifying common arguments of addicts and their logic faults is germane to the process of helping the addict.
I think your arguments have been positive and reasonable (thank you!), but I don’t understand why you feel the need to censure others when their posts haven’t been unreasonable.
A
alphawoman
Guest
A
alphawoman
Guest
Justifiably! You shouldn’t be questioned for that decision or have rude insinuations made against you by other posters for being put in that situation. I’m sorry you have to deal with the struggle of porn addiction in a spouse. I’m here if you ever want to commiserate over PM. :console:
P
Perian
Guest
I am still here and reading, BTW-- and not “inactive” as I was erroneously labeled a few subtopics ago. I am home alone with a toddler and I want this post to remain anonymous to my husband as well, so I’m afraid I’m not able to engage as much as I’d like to.
My husband is a true functioning porn addict. I found out just two days ago in a counseling session that he has been masturbating at work for months. If he had been caught… I can’t follow that line of thinking without bursting into tears. He would have ruined our lives. We would have had to leave our town. My baby would’ve grown up away from her grandparents, godparents, and every friend of mine who loves her. His career would’ve been almost exterminated. His years of graduate school, which were torturously hard for all of us, would’ve been for nothing. And he was willing to risk that just to alleviate his boredom… He really is an addict.
I’ve been trying to process all of this. It comes in waves. I don’t want to accept that he’s been lying to me. I asked him point-blank, are you just looking or are you doing everything? He said he was just looking. Not that it makes it okay, but it demonstrated to me some modicum of control and that he had limits. He lied to my face. He masturbated at home. While I was fighting to get the baby to bed. Is nothing sacred? I just don’t want to change the way I think about him. I want to believe my husband is worthy of my trust, but my trust blinded me to the warning signs that he was doing this.
Thank you for all of your responses and I hope the CAF will remember is in your prayers. This is the beginning of a long road and I don’t know how to start or what my role is anymore. CovenantEyes failed us miserably. The iPhone app does not prevent the download of a second web browser and that’s how he was finding these images. How do I talk to my husband about this without beating him over the head with his failure? He is truly ashamed. Truly. I let him have it the night after the counseling session (not in anger, but in unbridled truth, telling him everything I said above about the possible consequences of his actions) and he begged me to stop because he was just overcome with guilt and shame.
I don’t know.
My husband is a true functioning porn addict. I found out just two days ago in a counseling session that he has been masturbating at work for months. If he had been caught… I can’t follow that line of thinking without bursting into tears. He would have ruined our lives. We would have had to leave our town. My baby would’ve grown up away from her grandparents, godparents, and every friend of mine who loves her. His career would’ve been almost exterminated. His years of graduate school, which were torturously hard for all of us, would’ve been for nothing. And he was willing to risk that just to alleviate his boredom… He really is an addict.
I’ve been trying to process all of this. It comes in waves. I don’t want to accept that he’s been lying to me. I asked him point-blank, are you just looking or are you doing everything? He said he was just looking. Not that it makes it okay, but it demonstrated to me some modicum of control and that he had limits. He lied to my face. He masturbated at home. While I was fighting to get the baby to bed. Is nothing sacred? I just don’t want to change the way I think about him. I want to believe my husband is worthy of my trust, but my trust blinded me to the warning signs that he was doing this.
Thank you for all of your responses and I hope the CAF will remember is in your prayers. This is the beginning of a long road and I don’t know how to start or what my role is anymore. CovenantEyes failed us miserably. The iPhone app does not prevent the download of a second web browser and that’s how he was finding these images. How do I talk to my husband about this without beating him over the head with his failure? He is truly ashamed. Truly. I let him have it the night after the counseling session (not in anger, but in unbridled truth, telling him everything I said above about the possible consequences of his actions) and he begged me to stop because he was just overcome with guilt and shame.
I don’t know.
X
Xantippe
Guest
I’m so sorry.
Is there a support group that he can do?
I’m not surprised that the electronic nanny methods didn’t work. After all, we don’t set up alcoholics with special monitoring systems that beep whenever they go within a hundred yards of a bar or liquor store. The monitoring systems are an electronic solution to a primarily non-electronic problem. (Although they might have their place in filtering for the benefit of minor children at home or just keeping out accidental crud.)
P
pensmama87
Guest
Perian, I am so, so sorry. I am keeping you and your family, including your husband, in my prayers.
P
Perian
Guest
I might add that I have neglected to include the nuanced difficulties already existing in our intimacy due to his addiction.
He almost never pursues me or initiates intimacy anymore. So, when he does, my desperate hunger for his love is trumped by whatever wounds I have from his infidelity. I am deeply hurt, but I am hurt more by the way he never wants me. I agreed to have sex on my fertile time in spite the fact that I was about to begin counseling for fears about getting pregnant again because I was so desperate to feel some affection from him-- and then I did get pregnant. The emotional turmoil of being placed in that position and having my worst fear realized was too much. I lost the baby. My due date would have been next Wednesday.
And when we are together, he is a poster child for the sexual dysfunctions that masturbation and porn use can cause. If he’s not ejaculating prematurely, he can’t achieve an erection anyway.
I don’t WANT to deny him. I just don’t know how more I can take this treatment I don’t deserve…
I also want to thank those responders who are dealing with this personally for sharing their experiences. I will remember you and offer up my suffering for you in prayer
He almost never pursues me or initiates intimacy anymore. So, when he does, my desperate hunger for his love is trumped by whatever wounds I have from his infidelity. I am deeply hurt, but I am hurt more by the way he never wants me. I agreed to have sex on my fertile time in spite the fact that I was about to begin counseling for fears about getting pregnant again because I was so desperate to feel some affection from him-- and then I did get pregnant. The emotional turmoil of being placed in that position and having my worst fear realized was too much. I lost the baby. My due date would have been next Wednesday.
And when we are together, he is a poster child for the sexual dysfunctions that masturbation and porn use can cause. If he’s not ejaculating prematurely, he can’t achieve an erection anyway.
I don’t WANT to deny him. I just don’t know how more I can take this treatment I don’t deserve…
I also want to thank those responders who are dealing with this personally for sharing their experiences. I will remember you and offer up my suffering for you in prayer
S
Sugabee43
Guest
Perian, I’m so sorry for all of this. I TOTALLY know where you are and what you’re going through. Please know I’ll pray for you and your family, and if you need to vent, I’m just a PM away. I cannot answer for you; only for me, so I’m sure you’ve been reading my posts. I hope that nothing I’ve said has hurt you. Blessings of Our Savior to you!
S
Sugabee43
Guest
thanks so much, Alpha!! I appreciate your caring and your (name removed by moderator)ut.
P
Perian
Guest
Allegra and sugabee43, thank you in particular for your responses. They really advocate for us and cut through the misconceptions. I felt like this lost was in safe hands because of your answers and the scope of understanding you both demonstrated in the topic.
J
jmjZelie
Guest
Perian,
With these details, I would have to change my original answer, which was to encourage you to maintain sexual intimacy, because your longing for affection and sexual union with your husband was clear in your original post. However, now you describe a situation where your husband has so turned his sexual desires and capabilities away from you that he is quite incapable of natural sex. He has damaged his sexual capacity and this has to be addressed and healed. In this situation, if it were me, I would cease marital relations until he had been getting treatment and had been “sober” for at least several months. By sober, I mean no porn use, no masturbation. Healing and recovery is possible for porn addicts, but the experts now are saying that a period of abstinence is necessary to purge the brain of its conditioning. I believe another poster was describing this process. I have read a lot about this on LifeSiteNews, from some bloggers who discuss the damage porn does and what experts are saying is the likeliest way to recovery.
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I will pray for you.
With these details, I would have to change my original answer, which was to encourage you to maintain sexual intimacy, because your longing for affection and sexual union with your husband was clear in your original post. However, now you describe a situation where your husband has so turned his sexual desires and capabilities away from you that he is quite incapable of natural sex. He has damaged his sexual capacity and this has to be addressed and healed. In this situation, if it were me, I would cease marital relations until he had been getting treatment and had been “sober” for at least several months. By sober, I mean no porn use, no masturbation. Healing and recovery is possible for porn addicts, but the experts now are saying that a period of abstinence is necessary to purge the brain of its conditioning. I believe another poster was describing this process. I have read a lot about this on LifeSiteNews, from some bloggers who discuss the damage porn does and what experts are saying is the likeliest way to recovery.
I am so sorry for what you are going through. I will pray for you.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Really when I look back on the thread, the female posters have been gracious and patient in addressing this very serious issue. It has in general been the males who have been bitter and sarcastic in their responses and accusations at the beginning.
I would like Burt to respect the issue and not keep accusing women who can’t have relations with porn addict husbands of being vengeful and selfish. Yes, we get that he doesn’t regard porn viewing as as too wrong as he calls it as being ‘naughty’ rather than the serious and degrading sin against himself, his wife and the marriage… the way the Catholic Catechism does.
2354 Pornography consists in removing real or simulated sexual acts from the intimacy of the partners, in order to display them deliberately to third parties. It offends against chastity because it perverts the conjugal act, the intimate giving of spouses to each other. It does grave injury to the dignity of its participants (actors, vendors, the public), since each one becomes an object of base pleasure and illicit profit for others. It immerses all who are involved in the illusion of a fantasy world. It is a grave offense. Civil authorities should prevent the production and distribution of pornographic materials.
The lack of realisation of the seriousness of the betrayal felt by a wife is probably why he feels entitled to accuse her of a greater evil… *punishing *her husband. I’ve posted a couple of times the information from Covenant Eyes which is the organisation that helps men kick the porn habit and gives them the means to cut off the porn supply through the internet. It’s a credible organisation who have success.
I would really like Burt to read the Covenant Eyes link which begins…
Joe and Patty came to my office in crisis. Patty had recently discovered Joe viewing internet pornography late at night. A search of the computer’s history revealed chronic use of porn. Joe admitted he had a problem with Internet pornography and vowed to get help. He was truly sorry for hurting Patty, but he could not understand why she was so upset about it. Joe couldn’t understand why she had so much difficulty forgiving him and moving on with their relationship. What Joe didn’t understand is how pornography affects wives.
covenanteyes.com/2010/07/06/the-effects-of-pornography-on-wives-and-marriages/
Is he up for the challenge of reading some unbiased, objective information??
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Ultimatums that are motivated by changing the addict don’t work. What they do is encourage someone to suppress the addiction to meet a deadline rather than work on long term healing. Wives want to experience real trust in a person who respects himself rather than feel like they’ve made him jump through hoops to satisfy her.
J
jmjZelie
Guest
I don’t think whm was talking about an ultimatum. I could be wrong. But I thought he was explaining how part of the process of purging the brain and body of the lingering effects of porn is by abstaining from all forms of sexual activity (experts estimate a minimum length of time in this case is about 120 days) to help the porn addict to quell the urge that drives him to porn and also to help him begin to cultivate a healthy thought process regarding sexuality. Porn rewires the brain, but the brain is incredibly plastic and can be rewired again by removing the porn, and abstaining from all sexual release during the detox period. This is not a punishment or an ultimatum. It is merciful treatment for an addict. Or if you prefer to look at it from the point of view of personal responsibility instead of addiction, it is a period of time where the porn user demonstrates to himself that he can control his urges and that his urges do not control him. So this isn’t about jumping through hoops. It is about mastering himself and undergoing conversion of heart.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Conversion of heart has to be strongly chosen by oneself. He can give himself time frames in consultation with a therapist, but for a spouse or loved one giving a time frame… that is fraught with well documented hazards. What if he slips at the one month mark… does the 3 months start again? What if he slips a week before the 3 month date comes up? Does the spouse excuse the slip and commence sex on the appointed date? It has the same effect as an ultimatum.
If a spouse acting in the interests of her own wellbeing and that of her children gives a dead line for leaving the marriage, that may inspire an addict to take the hard first steps of change for himself… but that is quite separate from holding a partner to a deadline for the resumption of sex. Marriage intimacy and trust can’t work on those sorts of terms.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
This is a news story that we have from today regarding porn and it’s effects on people. It is so heartbreaking to think of our daughters and all the young people of this generation, having this scourge infecting the most intimate part of human life.
Porn’s effect on youth ‘is catastrophic’: Top Met officer despairs of boys and girls brutalised by extreme films online
Porn’s effect on youth ‘is catastrophic’: Top Met officer despairs of boys and girls brutalised by extreme films online
- Status