Would YOU marry anyone who has a history of sex abuse - as the perp?

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Mark86 said:
Well then what do you suggest? They be put to death?
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Heavens, no.

Simply that they not marry, and that they not be left alone with children.
How many times did Christ say we should forgive them?
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“Forgive” does not mean “be stupid.” It also doesn’t mean that the person doesn’t experience the natural consequences of their actions, such as not being allowed to be near children any more. Forgiveness simply means that you don’t bring up the subject any more, and you let go of your anger.

You are still allowed to protect yourself and your children from potential harm.
Whoever said this whole “Christian” thing was easy?
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It isn’t. Sometimes it requires difficult conversations with people we love, and people we have forgiven, to let them know that there are certain boundaries they can no longer cross.
 
jmcrae said:
Simply that they not marry, and that they not be left alone with children.
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If it’s God’s will that they marry, it doesn’t matter what they’ve done in the past. God’s will is God’s will. If it isn’t God’s will for them, then that’s that. One’s personal sins don’t exclude one from the sacramental life, otherwise no one would be “eligible for marriage.”
 
Mark86 said:
*Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”*

(John 8:10-12)
That’s Christ’s response to repentant child molesters. Is it yours? “No I would not…” is a long way from “Then neither do I condemn you.”
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The problem is that child molesters often don’t stop, and “go and sin no more” is too important to take on faith. ETA: faith in the admitted molester, not faith in God. Josh may have really sinned during a limited period of time and he may be sincere about his regrets. Then again he may have kept abusing or fantasizing about it. I would want (name removed by moderator)ut from a psychologist who specializes in abuse.

Child abuse is a crime, unlike the scenario above. I would not want to assume Josh is a liar but I also would not give him the benefit of the doubt until I knew a lot more about this situation.

It would make me nervous that he abused multiple victims, many of whom were his own sisters, and he abused them in their sleep at times, when they were helpless.
 
silver_moon said:
The problem is that child molesters often don’t stop, and “go and sin no more” is too important to take on faith. ETA: faith in the admitted molester, not faith in God. Josh may have really sinned during a limited period of time and he may be sincere about his regrets. Then again he may have kept abusing or fantasizing about it. I would want (name removed by moderator)ut from a psychologist who specializes in abuse.

Child abuse is a crime, unlike the scenario above. I would not want to assume Josh is a liar but I also would not give him the benefit of the doubt until I knew a lot more about this situation.

It would make me nervous that he abused multiple victims, many of whom were his own sisters, and he abused them in their sleep at times, when they were helpless.
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I agree. From what I’ve read this morning, the fact that this was serial AND incest make the situation even more insane. :eek:
 
No, I wouldn’t.

But…when I was still single and looking…one of my criteria’s for marriage was a man who had never been married before and had no children with anyone else.

Obviously…I could have met a man who had been married, divorced with annulment and/or widowed and he had children from said relationship…and he wasn’t sinning in the least bit…but that didn’t mean that I would want to date him, let alone marry him.

Everyone has their own preferences when it comes to marriage material.

This is from a purely objective point-of-view. People have their preferences when it comes to looking for a spouse…some may seem reasonable and others may not be reasonable at all…in the eyes of someone else.
 
Mark86 said:
How can they truly change? Nobody will let them.
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There are programs and therapists who specialize in treating perpetrators of sexual assault. And I’m not saying I wouldn’t let him change, just that I wouldn’t trust he has without a lot more information. He may have changed and that could be private between him and his family. I don’t know him so I can’t speak to this.

I’m just saying if I literally knew only what’s been disclosed, I would not agree to marry him without knowing a lot more. Information that may never be available to the public.
 
Mark86 said:
If it’s God’s will that they marry, it doesn’t matter what they’ve done in the past. God’s will is God’s will. If it isn’t God’s will for them, then that’s that. One’s personal sins don’t exclude one from the sacramental life, otherwise no one would be “eligible for marriage.”
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What ToeInTheWater asked is if posters here would personally be willing to marry a former child abuser. They weren’t talking about whether child abusers should be allowed to marry. Most posters here have said they would not be willing to marry a person with that history. This doesn’t mean, as you are assuming, that they wouldn’t forgive them. But they rightly recognize that sexually abusing a child is NOT comparable to any other sin. Your point that no one would be eligible for marriage if personal sins were an issue is completely missing the point.

A child abuser, especially one who does it multiple times, has deep, psychological issues. I don’t blame anyone here for thinking that this is a deal breaker. How would you feel if you found out your accountant was a compulsive stealer and had a history of embezzling? Maybe he has since repented, but would you really trust him with your money? I wouldn’t.

A spouse has to be someone you can trust whole-heartedly. I may forgive someone, but I would be extremely hesitant to trust him around my children.
 
No. Nope. No way.

Been there. Done that. Burned the tee shirt.
 
Mark86 said:
Well then what do you suggest? They be put to death?
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Of course…not. :rolleyes: I’m suggesting that I would not marry him under any circumstances.

(Aside from the fact that if I did it would be a gay marriage because I’m a man…and not gay.)
 
Forgiveness doesn’t mean that you just do as if it never happened. This is a horrible protestant understanding of forgiveness. When God forgave David, he still punished him very hard.

The early Church did forgive all sins, but the sinner usually had to do a very long penance, because penance is part of forgiveness. To forgive sins without penance is not true forgiveness, this is why for example the first ecumenical council decided that lapsed catechumen had to do penance for 3 years then they could return to catechumenate.

I really dislike how the mercy of God gets twisted into reward for evil.
 
Mark86 said:
*Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”*

(John 8:10-12)
That’s Christ’s response to repentant child molesters. Is it yours? “No I would not…” is a long way from “Then neither do I condemn you.”
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A repentant adulteress is a long way from a predator with an opportunistic proclivity for powerless women or children. A does not equal C here.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
Inspired by the topics about Josh Duggar and the leaked report regarding allegations that he molested numerous girls as a teenager, most of whom were his own sisters.

The reaction has been quite mixed, but many are expressing support for Josh and stating that the Christian response is to take him at a word he has repented, and to forgive him.

The story also states that Josh did disclose his history to his now-wife Anna, and she married him anyway.

Well, you could argue that if we REALLY are to forgive we are to behave like priests in the confessional, that we essentially treat the sinner as if the sin never happened. (I have heard, for example, that if an accountant who worked for the parish confessed embezzling funds, that the priest can NOT use that information to justify firing the accountant.)

So, would you be comfortable, marrying someone who had a history of such behavior?
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In all honesty no. I would leave that task for someone more evolved than myself. And I know it is wronf but the thoughts would keep running in my head. Although if placed in the situation I would probably make another choice…I’m not sure.
 
NO!!!

Forgiving is great. As mentioned, penance, also good.
Having eyes wide open serves well, also.
 
Mark86 said:
If it’s God’s will that they marry, it doesn’t matter what they’ve done in the past. God’s will is God’s will. If it isn’t God’s will for them, then that’s that. One’s personal sins don’t exclude one from the sacramental life, otherwise no one would be “eligible for marriage.”
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Actually, some people are not able to be married. Alcoholics, for example, and persons who are unable to give free consent.
 
Colorad007 said:
“Sexual abuse” covers a lot of ground, and it is impossible to make blanket, definitive statements about it. I think that pornography, for example, is a despicable abuse of women by men (usually). Yet I used pornography as a teenager, my wife still married me, and I’m glad that she did (and, no, I don’t believe I’m a threat to my wife or daughter). “Date rape” is a terrible thing on college campuses, but do you really think that a person cannot make amends in their life and become a wonderful husband and father after a night of drunken carousing?
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Well, you are raising the bar here when you discuss college students and suggest that a history of date rape would not be a barrier to marriage; last I checked, mot college students are over 18 years of age, much older than the age of Josh Duggar. I also think you are trying to have it both ways when you put quote marks around “date rape” and state it is terrible, yet in the same sentence refer to it as a “night of drunken carousing”.

Although you throw in the disclaimers that porn is “despicable” and rape is “terrible”, I really get the sense that you see most cases of sexual abuse, whether it involves juvenile perpetrators or adults, as NOT rising to the level of a criminal offense that someone should be prosecuted for.

I am not stating that it is impossible for a person to reform himself. But I personally would NOT be willing to risk the welfare of my own children on that hope.

And that, as Robyn P seems to understand, is my question, as to whether people would personally be willing to take that risk.
 
ToeInTheWater said:
And that, as Robyn P seems to understand, is my question, as to whether people would personally be willing to take that risk.
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I wouldn’t take the risk. Nor would I be able to forgive the person, ever. Reform or no reform.

I’ve never been able to adequately forgive my father, despite trying to.

There’s your answer.
 
Mark86 said:
*Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”

“No one, sir,” she said.

"Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”*

(John 8:10-12)
That’s Christ’s response to repentant child molesters. Is it yours? “No I would not…” is a long way from “Then neither do I condemn you.”
Click to expand...
Not condemning them is not the same as trusting them, and forgiveness does not mean that we have to let people take advantage of us.

I would absolutely not marry someone who has a history of sex abuse, particularly not if the abuse involved children. I have to be able to trust my husband, and I couldn’t - I couldn’t leave our children in his care and believe that they would be safe.
 
Mark86 said:
I wouldn’t take the risk. Nor would I be able to forgive the person, ever. Reform or no reform.

I’ve never been able to adequately forgive my father, despite trying to.

There’s your answer.
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Thank you very much for your honesty. See, it’s easy to talk the talk when it comes to forgiveness and grace. Not as easy to walk the walk. That was the point.

I am not, by the way, saying this is wrong. But note the same Jesus that spoke of forgiveness and repentance, also spoke about tying millstones around the necks of those who hurt children.

Putting yourself at risk in the name of Christian charity and forgiveness is one thing. Putting children at risk? Children who do not know enough to make a risk analysis, who depend on adults to protect them? I think that is a completely different issue.
 
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