Would YOU marry anyone who has a history of sex abuse - as the perp?

[Loly_Maria]

No, I wouldn’t marry anyone with a history of any form of abuse/violence.

 

[silver_moon]

Context means everything. Personally, my answer would be no way, but that’s because I - and probably everybody else in this thread - haven’t been exposed to the life that some people have.

But, let’s look at a cultural background like South Africa, where rape is such a common thing. So many gangs of boys - including teenage or even junior high boys - rape girls, that the shock value of rape has become “inflated”. Neither the boys nor the girls necessarily view it with the same intensely negative degree that a Westerner would. A girl could be raped, and several years later marry a guy. A guy with a damaged background as a teenage boy could be a rapist, and years later, marry a girl and live a semi-normal life. The standards of sexual ethics are so withered and so grievously compromised that these occurrences wouldn’t be such an extraordinary thing. You’re a South African with a history of sexual abuse, either as a perp or a victim? Join the crowd of several million other people.

(Mind you, I’m not going out of my way to pick on South Africa. Western immorality tends to be “cleaner” on the surface and comes in the form of serial divorcing and an overabundance of fruitless marriages that aren’t actually marriages at all. The population decreases as the depression and loneliness increases)

Even in Western countries, as college rape climbs, we also see an inflation towards the shock value of rape. Or another way of putting it: a certain level of numbness towards it, the same way that a soldier eventually becomes somewhat numb towards the atrocities he witnesses. In a drunken party, you have morally apathetic drunk guys that climb on top of morally apathetic unconscious drunk women and rape them. Fast forward several years, and both the perpetrator and the victim are invisible in the crowd, living normal lives. Although terrible, this simply doesn’t have the same degree of shock value in society as other examples of sexual abuse would.

South Africa has a tragically high rate of sexual assault, but it’s higher here than a lot of people realize. Which is why when people start coming forward, there are many more victims/survivors.

I was gang raped by a group of “nice” suburban boys - who seemed like sociopaths to me - when I was 12, at a friend’s house. This did not do good things to our friendship although she was abused as well, I had to stay in school with her and I had extremely mixed feelings about guilt and responsibility (b/c I couldn’t help yet I felt angry about being there). It has taken therapy to realize she was also 12 w/not much she could do, and there may have been ongoing abuse for her.

At any rate the assault appeared premeditated. But when I went looking for information on group assault in the US, I found 1) disputed claims about fraternity gage rape, 2) scattered individual histories, and 3) accounts from other parts of the world, namely, South Africa/other places in Africa, Germany at the end of WW2, and impoverished neighborhoods in France.

Part of this is we don’t talk about it here. Many years later I asked another classmate if she knew about it, while not telling her the part about the friend’s house since that’s not part of my story. She hadn’t heard a thing.

The guys were basically “regular” looking although scary with a lot of intimidation but they also looked like criminals - their drinking may have helped them come across this way.

When Tori Amos released “me and a gun” about her experience of rape, she was flooded for years with fan accounts, and the charity she is associated with, RAINN, has helped a large number of people.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

It depends… I am a guy so I guess it would be different with a woman. Like it was pointed out already the tern “sex abuse” can be broad. This is not a problem I will likely have to deal with but it can be for women. I understand when some women would say “I can forgive, but no I would not marry a man with a history of sex abuse” It is a tough issue.

I would like to say that I am a ex drug addict/alcoholic, ex convicted Felon and criminal low life. In fact, when I was Incarcerated, the jail politics would have required me to assault anyone convicted of a sex crime that I would have a chance to assault. So it took me awhile to even remember that child molesters and rapists and so forth are still not for me to judge and I have to show compassion and Christian love even towards them.

Now… I have been clean for over 6 1/2 years and discharged all probation a few years ago but I have to register as a narcotics offender for one more year, as my convictions are all drug and alcohol related. I know I am a changed man but I tell every woman who I have ever gone out with about my past just in case she does have a problem with that. I am sure some women would, but they can kick rocks if they do. We all have a past… some worse than others. But… I would now like to quote Al Pacino as Scarface…

“You need people like me… You need people like me so you can point your finger and say “That’s him… that’s the bad guy”. So what does that make you? Good? No… you are not good… you just know how to lie… how to hide. Me, i do not have that problem. Me… I always tell the truth… even when I lie. So say goodnight to the bad guy!!”

 

[ToeInTheWater]

It depends… I am a guy so I guess it would be different with a woman. Like it was pointed out already the tern “sex abuse” can be broad. This is not a problem I will likely have to deal with but it can be for women. I understand when some women would say “I can forgive, but no I would not marry a man with a history of sex abuse” It is a tough issue.

I would like to say that I am a ex drug addict/alcoholic, ex convicted Felon and criminal low life. In fact, when I was Incarcerated, the jail politics would have required me to assault anyone convicted of a sex crime that I would have a chance to assault. So it took me awhile to even remember that child molesters and rapists and so forth are still not for me to judge and I have to show compassion and Christian love even towards them.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but personally - the issue is primarily about the protection of children. There is a big leap from forgiving someone and feeling compassion, and agreeing to marry them and (especially for Catholics) having children with them, if they may be a threat to one’s children.

However, I really doubt most of the posters who would not marry a person with such a history out of judgment that “ooh, this sin is obviously unforgiveable and this guy is headed straight to hell even if he repented” or thinking “this is such a horrible sin that I am justified in punishing this guy by refusing to marry him”.

Also, it is a Christian teaching that we should not put “stumbling blocks” in front of people that tempt them into sin. It would be uncharitable for someone to wave bottles of alcohol under the noses of people who are recovering alcoholics. Most practicing Catholics equate marriage with children, yet couldn’t we argue that it is unfair to the person with such a history, to put him into a situation where he could be tempted to sin again?

 

[Sarcelle]

It depends… I am a guy so I guess it would be different with a woman. Like it was pointed out already the tern “sex abuse” can be broad. This is not a problem I will likely have to deal with but it can be for women. I understand when some women would say “I can forgive, but no I would not marry a man with a history of sex abuse” It is a tough issue.

I would like to say that I am a ex drug addict/alcoholic, ex convicted Felon and criminal low life. In fact, when I was Incarcerated, the jail politics would have required me to assault anyone convicted of a sex crime that I would have a chance to assault. So it took me awhile to even remember that child molesters and rapists and so forth are still not for me to judge and I have to show compassion and Christian love even towards them.

Now… I have been clean for over 6 1/2 years and discharged all probation a few years ago but I have to register as a narcotics offender for one more year, as my convictions are all drug and alcohol related. I know I am a changed man but I tell every woman who I have ever gone out with about my past just in case she does have a problem with that. I am sure some women would, but they can kick rocks if they do. We all have a past… some worse than others. But… I would now like to quote Al Pacino as Scarface…

“You need people like me… You need people like me so you can point your finger and say “That’s him… that’s the bad guy”. So what does that make you? Good? No… you are not good… you just know how to lie… how to hide. Me, i do not have that problem. Me… I always tell the truth… even when I lie. So say goodnight to the bad guy!!”

Sure you can exhibit Christian love towards child molesters, murderers and rapists. This does not mean marrying them. Just like a president of a nation state can also forgive a spy but proof of that forgiveness does not mean entrusting the former spy with classified information.

The virtue of forgiveness does not mean trumping the virtue of prudence.

 

[Rosebud77]

My take on this would be the same as for forgiveness… If someone pushed me a bridge, I would manage to forgive them while I was recovering in hospital but there is no way I would walk on a bridge with them again. Leopards come to mind as in not changing their spots.

 

[Rosebud77]

Well if we’re talking about repentant sinners, how is someone who’s former ways involved hurting children different from someone who’s former ways involved adultery? Former ways are former ways. Those were the ways of the flesh. The new person is walking in the light of life, a new person in Christ. If the new person who has put to death the old person is indeed “walking in Christ,” why would you “deny the little children to go to Him?”

God can change a person, regardless of what you “think” and “feel” or how comfortable you are at accepting it.

Saul was a murderer. Christ changed him. Paul healed people. If Paul had to be haunted forever because of his past as a murderer, then he would never have been given the opportunity to be anything but a “former murderer.”

That argument is why so many children got abused here in Ireland and elsewhere. Paedophilia is a disease and incurable.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Ok, I don’t know if people think I was saying in my previous post that people with a history of sex abuse should be forgiven and given a chance to marry without any prejudice but that is what it looks like people think I meant. That was NOT what I said. Read my post more carefully. I said it is understandable that a woman would be cautious and not want to marry a man with a sex abuse history. And not all ex alcoholics find it a “stumbling block” for alcohol to be in front of them. Believe it or not, some of us learn to drink like a gentleman and stop after 2 beers. That is a far cry from when I use to start my mornings with a 40oz of Malt liquor

 

[aloe]

Never. No way. I can’t even believe that is a real question It is not a tough issue; it an easy decision and requires no thought to answer NO. Never ever.

 

[aloe]

From what I’ve read this morning, the fact that this was serial AND incest make the situation even more insane.

Yes. Words matter. Call it what it is. Even his lack luster all about himself apology focused on “him” and “his life” and had a glossing over of words. Not hardly a mention on how he messed up lives of the 5 little girls, 4 of whom were forced to live with him while he terrorized and abused. This situation is so disgusting and awful for the girls and I feel so bad for the innocent girls involved. 4 out of 5 young siblings is horrible and abnormal. It isn’t like he was a teen and tried some drugs or drinking or something normal. And how in the world did the parents who go out of their way in claims to “protect” girls modesty at all costs (even no hand holding, solo dating, and front hugs) not protect them? They had to live with that for their lives (one had to endure abuse starting at age 4) until he finally left his parents home and then had to see him on a regular basis. Can you imagine how messed up it was to be one of those poor girls? And now the abuser has 2 daughters of his own, 1 around the same age as 4. It is an outrage.

 

[Mark86]

That argument is why so many children got abused here in Ireland and elsewhere. Paedophilia is a disease and incurable.

It was my impression that God was capable of anything, including curing what we would call “incurable.” It’s certainly possible that someone who suffers with pedophilia can be healed by God and live a normal life. In fact, doing such may just be another cross to bear for the sake of personal holiness. Someone who molests children obviously can’t live a normal life even if they repent and are healed because their sin has consequences that they (and their victims unfortunately) do have to live with. I understand that, but there’s a difference between the psychological disorder of pedophilia and the act of child abuse. It’s the same as homosexuality. There’s a difference between the inclination (the disorder) and the grave act of consenting to the inclination and carrying it out. One does not need to lead to the other any more than any of our sinful and disordered inclinations necessarily have to lead to sin.

I guess the important thing to note is that even if God is capable of healing such a person, it’s still prudent they not be allowed contact with children, since we are not God and we can’t tell how healed the person is.

 

[chevalier]

Would YOU marry anyone who has a history of sex abuse - as the perp?

I wouldn’t take it against a truly reformed one per se, although court-awarded damages or other obligations could be a practical problem, and a decision not to marry someone could result from practical reasons, including ones for which the person weren’t even responsible. At least in those circumstances where I’d be making a pick mostly based on liking someone and prudential criteria as opposed to actually being strongly in love in a very emotional sense. In the latter type of situation, I’d be more inclined to ignore all sorts of problems.

 

[jeannetherese]

Well if we’re talking about repentant sinners, how is someone who’s former ways involved hurting children different from someone who’s former ways involved adultery?

Adultery is something that adults might guard themselves against or recognize and accept as a possible risk in a future spouse.
Pedophilia is something that adults have a responsibility to guard their children against.
It seems to me that the comparison does not work well as children are not in a position to consent to the risk of being around a person with a history of pedophilia.

 

[jeannetherese]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but personally - the issue is primarily about the protection of children. There is a big leap from forgiving someone and feeling compassion, and agreeing to marry them and (especially for Catholics) having children with them, if they may be a threat to one’s children.

However, I really doubt most of the posters who would not marry a person with such a history out of judgment that “ooh, this sin is obviously unforgiveable and this guy is headed straight to hell even if he repented” or thinking “this is such a horrible sin that I am justified in punishing this guy by refusing to marry him”.

Also, it is a Christian teaching that we should not put “stumbling blocks” in front of people that tempt them into sin. It would be uncharitable for someone to wave bottles of alcohol under the noses of people who are recovering alcoholics. Most practicing Catholics equate marriage with children, yet couldn’t we argue that it is unfair to the person with such a history, to put him into a situation where he could be tempted to sin again?

You put this so much better than I Toein the water.
Thanks and may God bless you and all who visit this thread.