Would you marry someone who was divorced twice?

[Rascalking]

Divorce is a sin???

Living in an abusive situation with one party unwilling to behave as a married individual (that means more than adultery), who steals your money and credit cards, refuses counseling, tells your at least every other day to get the hell out of the house, won’t sleep with you, refuses to keep a job, won’t come home till 3 in the morning, and feels we should suffer for his refusal to live like a law abiding mature citizen, has no use for the Church whatsoever…just does whatever he feels like doing and to heck with anyone’s feelings …divorcing him (a state action) is a sin?

Even after 15 years, I don’t feel the least bit of guilt divorcing my ex. I hope it was a wake up call for him.

Sorry, but I think I had very good grounds (in the eyes of the State and God’s) for cutting ties to him. Marriage to him was impossible. And yes, I prayed, and I prayed a LOT. I got my answer when he threw me out of the house after all of the good I tried to do for him.

Sorry, but this comment hit a nerve with me.

For what it’s worth, I, like many catholics, view divorce like I view an amputation-it’s sometimes a necessary step to save a life, but you can never grow that limb back.

Do you know what I mean?

I totally agree that in an abusive case divorce is not only necessary, it’s probably the best case scenario.

 

[Nec5]

Divorce is a sin???

I got my answer when he threw me out of the house after all of the good I tried to do for him.

Sorry, but this comment hit a nerve with me.

Divorce is a sin. However, as the catechism clearly articulates (and common sense too), your case is not really the typical modern divorce. It is abandonment. You did nothing wrong. He is/was a scumbag by his own actions and betrayed you, the community, the sacrament, and God.

I would argue that his attitude and demeanor could have been deduced beforehand by you, but that’s a separate matter and I’m a hardcase on the issue.

You honored the commitment; he abandoned you and the marriage. That’s on him.

 

[Melissa]

For what it’s worth, I, like many catholics, view divorce like I view an amputation-it’s sometimes a necessary step to save a life, but you can never grow that limb back.

Do you know what I mean?

I totally agree that in an abusive case divorce is not only necessary, it’s probably the best case scenario.

Exactly. When you read the catechism about the immorality of divorce, it seems to be speaking specifically of cases when the party seeking the divorce is the one who has done the harm to the marriage vows in the first place. In my case, I’m about to file for divorce after my husband decided to rape another woman. There had been verbal/emotional abuse through the marriage, and a divorce here is necessary. It’s not the sort of thing I would have chosen but … well, when your husband rapes another woman … let’s just say that if there is a worse way to break the marriage vows, I really don’t want to know what it is. I have to protect myself and my children.

But as far as the initial post … yeah, definite deal breaker. Once, yes, I could possibly believe that it’s ‘the other person’s fault’. Twice … well, no … at least part of the fault is certain to be with the “common denominator”.

 

[EasterJoy]

Divorce is a sin. However, as the catechism clearly articulates (and common sense too), your case is not really the typical modern divorce. It is abandonment. You did nothing wrong. He is/was a scumbag by his own actions and betrayed you, the community, the sacrament, and God.

I would argue that his attitude and demeanor could have been deduced beforehand by you, but that’s a separate matter and I’m a hardcase on the issue.

You honored the commitment; he abandoned you and the marriage. That’s on him.

Divorcing without serious reason is a sin. If there is a grave reason, divorce is morally allowed.

2383 The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.176

*If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense. *

2384 Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.177

2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.

Sometimes it is morally necessary, as would be the case when it was necessary in order to avoid phyisical abuse. When the reason is serious, divorce may even be necessary in a case where there is reason to believe that the marriage is valid.

 

[Nec5]

I thought I covered the sinful aspect adequately when I mentioned abandonment as 2386 contends?

 

[EasterJoy]

OP: I would say that any time you seriously consider divorcing your spouse, you need to talk to a priest or spiritual director. These thoughts are to a marriage as suicidal thoughts are to an individual life. Simply having them means that you, personally, are in a serious state, whether or not you are culpable for anything. I say that even though I fully realize that divorce is sometimes a morally necessary choice.

Divorce is not the kind of option that you ought to be throwing around in your mind by yourself. Now that you have entertained these thoughts, get competent spiritual guidance. Repeat as often as necessary.

Unless divorce ideation is repulsive to you, you should never dismiss thoughts of divorce as being merely idle conjecture. Additionally, I would not tell my spouse that I was having thoughts like this unless I had talked to a priest first. Because a person looking for divorce is prone to project all sorts of unfair faults and accusations on his or her spouse, it could do real, unnecessary and unjust harm to the spouse to “spill your guts” when you haven’t been honestly examined by someone who is competent in spiritual diagnosis first. You will not go wrong by first eliminating the possibility that this is primarily your problem.

I hope it goes without saying that one should never, ever threaten divorce in a fit of anger. Again, it is like rashly making a threat against an individual’s life. It should never be done, because no amount of later apologies will ever take those words back.

Now, do people throw these thoughts and rash words around and live to see their marriage survive? Sure, they do. The stakes are very high, though.
Again, it is like theatening to kill yourself, or another person. It is no joke. Don’t do it.

 

[EasterJoy]

I thought I covered the sinful aspect adequately when I mentioned abandonment as 2386 contends?

I meant to clarify that the Church teaches that even initiating a divorce can be a legitimate moral choice, if–and only if!!–the reasons are sufficiently serious. Unless a threat on life is involved, though, this is a decision a prudent person would not make without spiritual advice and a great deal of prayer.

I would hope that a person whose spouse posed a threat to him or her, or to the well-being of a child, would have access to serious spiritual guidance, as well, of course. What a horrible thing to have to go through! No one should go through it alone, or without competent help.

My primary concern, though, is that we never ever give the impression that a person who is being abused, let alone one in mortal danger, is morally bound to stay in the marriage until their spouse sees fit to abandon them. The Church doesn’t teach that. That myth could endanger someone’s life, besides.

 

[Cable]

Hi, I am on my second marriage and I fear it might end in divorce.

My first one was annulled, and I believe I would easily qualify for a second one. Long story short, I seem to have a pathological attraction to women with low self esteem; or maybe rather, they are attracted to me.

But the question is, if you met someone you really liked, but after a few weeks he (or she) revealed to you that (s)he was twice divorced, would that be an automatic deal breaker? Naturally, I’m talking about a twice annulled marriage too.

There was a time in my life when I used to be very judgmental of divorced people, but wow…I’m not so judgmental anymore.

In my case I have no children (turns out I am infertile), I am very much a practicing Catholic.

No, I would not consider it. I would consider someone who seems to be more cooperative or successful with interpersonal relationships.

 

[monicatholic]

in addition to every wonderful objective thing Nec5 wrote, i’ll add these coupla subjective head-scratchers:

• why would a guy who seems to have a “pathological attraction to women with low self esteem;” try a go at round three?
• if your new pal Joe said, “i usually get stuck hanging out with disfunctional jerks” wouldn’t you be insulted? or at least worried that you, too, were a disfunctional jerk?

OP, put the Sears Christmas Wish Book away. stop shopping.

 

[TheAdvocate]

Hi, all. OP here. I am grateful for your responses. I have a few follow-up remarks.

1. First of all, I’m not the one giving up on the marriage, she is. Her attitude toward marriage is, “if you’re miserable, you have every right to get out.”
2. I have talked to my pastor extensively. And a Catholic counselor.
3. I never assumed that she was the only one with the problem in the marriage. I share responsibility for my mistakes and shortcomings, and I admit them. But she won’t. Her idea of marriage is basically, Do everything I say, I’m always right.

It’s a long story. If anyone’s curious, here’s the original link to my story. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=429973
It’s long. Only for the curious.

But again, thanks. Especially for those who promised prayers.

By the way, today she just agreed to counseling for the first time. A miracle. God help us.

 

[EasterJoy]

Hi, all. OP here. I am grateful for your responses. I have a few follow-up remarks.

1. First of all, I’m not the one giving up on the marriage, she is. Her attitude toward marriage is, “if you’re miserable, you have every right to get out.”
2. I have talked to my pastor extensively. And a Catholic counselor.
3. I never assumed that she was the only one with the problem in the marriage. I share responsibility for my mistakes and shortcomings, and I admit them. But she won’t. Her idea of marriage is basically, Do everything I say, I’m always right.

It’s a long story. If anyone’s curious, here’s the original link to my story. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=429973
It’s long. Only for the curious.

But again, thanks. Especially for those who promised prayers.

By the way, today she just agreed to counseling for the first time. A miracle. God help us.

It sounds as if your initial post betrays a fear of what will happen to you if your marriage cannot be saved, more than anything else, and perhaps a fear that you are “damaged goods”.

Cross that bridge when you come to it. For now, stay in this marriage, work on this marriage, pray for this marriage. Let God be concerned about what will happen to you if your wife will not reconcile with you. Let God guide you, if that happens.

In the end, after all, you do not need to worry about how “most people” will look at you, particularly people you have never met in conversations you may never have. Sufficient for today are today’s concerns. You only need to concern yourself with how God sees you and the choices you make today. After that, let the chips fall where they may. What God means for you to do, God will give you the means to do. Our job, then, is to look for what his will is and what means he has given us to cooperate with it.

God be with you. Hang in there.

 

[whatevergirl]

It would be a deal breaker to find out the guy was wondering if it was possible to marry someone else while he was still married to his 2nd wife.

Ouch. But, true.

 

[magic_stick]

If I liked him enough, sure I would.

 

[StJudePray4Me]

Hi, all. OP here. I am grateful for your responses. I have a few follow-up remarks.

1. First of all, I’m not the one giving up on the marriage, she is. Her attitude toward marriage is, “if you’re miserable, you have every right to get out.”
2. I have talked to my pastor extensively. And a Catholic counselor.
3. I never assumed that she was the only one with the problem in the marriage. I share responsibility for my mistakes and shortcomings, and I admit them. But she won’t. Her idea of marriage is basically, Do everything I say, I’m always right.

It’s a long story. If anyone’s curious, here’s the original link to my story. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=429973
It’s long. Only for the curious.

But again, thanks. Especially for those who promised prayers.

By the way, today she just agreed to counseling for the first time. A miracle. God help us.

Hi
I just read portions of your original thread, but I have a question – Why did you marry her?

I’m not trying to be mean or facetious – I’m serious. She must have had some good qualities, right? What are they? Can you try to see her in that light again?

I hope you have success with your counseling, I hope both you and she will keep your hearts and minds open to REALLY examine your actions and attitudes toward one another. Hang in there, there will be lots of prayers for you from all the posters (and lurkers!) on your threads!

 

[TheAdvocate]

Hi
I just read portions of your original thread, but I have a question – Why did you marry her?

I’m not trying to be mean or facetious – I’m serious. She must have had some good qualities, right? What are they? Can you try to see her in that light again?

I hope you have success with your counseling, I hope both you and she will keep your hearts and minds open to REALLY examine your actions and attitudes toward one another. Hang in there, there will be lots of prayers for you from all the posters (and lurkers!) on your threads!

StJudePray4Me, I posted my reply on the other thread (the once explaining what’s leading to the demise…) in order not to stray from the direct topic of this thread.

You’ll find it here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=429973&page=4

THANK YOU!!!

 

[TheAdvocate]

It sounds as if your initial post betrays a fear of what will happen to you if your marriage cannot be saved, more than anything else, and perhaps a fear that you are “damaged goods”.

Cross that bridge when you come to it. For now, stay in this marriage, work on this marriage, pray for this marriage. Let God be concerned about what will happen to you if your wife will not reconcile with you. Let God guide you, if that happens.

In the end, after all, you do not need to worry about how “most people” will look at you, particularly people you have never met in conversations you may never have. Sufficient for today are today’s concerns. You only need to concern yourself with how God sees you and the choices you make today. After that, let the chips fall where they may. What God means for you to do, God will give you the means to do. Our job, then, is to look for what his will is and what means he has given us to cooperate with it.

God be with you. Hang in there.

EasterJoy, your reputation for being charitable in your responses is not unfounded. Essentially, what you saying is “Seek the Kingdom of Heaven first and everything will be fulfilled” (my lame paraphrase), and put trust in God, and be open to his will, whatever it might be.

You captured my feelings exactly. It’s fear. Fear of winding up alone, fear of being perceived as damaged goods, esp. because I am a leader in a couple of different Catholic communities.

 

[EasterJoy]

EasterJoy, your reputation for being charitable in your responses is not unfounded. Essentially, what you saying is “Seek the Kingdom of Heaven first and everything will be fulfilled” (my lame paraphrase), and put trust in God, and be open to his will, whatever it might be.

You captured my feelings exactly. It’s fear. Fear of winding up alone, fear of being perceived as damaged goods, esp. because I am a leader in a couple of different Catholic communities.

You’re a step ahead of the devil when you see his tactics for what they are. Look at the Cross. God doesn’t guarantee that we will not have to suffer and die. He does not guarantee that we will not be subject to harsh judgement or false accusation. What He does guarantee is that if we are faithful, He can take the worst thing in the world and turn it into the best thing in the world.

We can only do so much from this forum, because although we do our best to be honest, we’re always speaking to the theoretical case. Find yourself a good spiritual director to talk to as you go through this, a wise, prudent, compassionate and holy person who knows how to listen, a person who can see what is in your eyes. You’ll need one.

May God be with you!

 

[Lady_Mariegrace]

I find it AMAZING the things that people will say on here, esp. off the cuff, it sometimes seems. And, yeh, a lot of people come across as judgmental and holier than thou in their writings on here. It is soo sad. Divorce sucks! It is hell on earth, it destroys the family, it eats the life out a person, God hates it and I hate it also but it takes two people to make a marriage work and keep it together. And it only takes one to walk out.
I am a converted Catholic, twice divorced, once annulled, working on the 2nd annulment - woman. I believed in the sacredness of my vows each time i took them as we were both christian believers married in church and planned that they be forever! In fact i prayed and fasted before both marriages and found it almost impossible to reconcile the mess i was in both times with God’s will for me.
My first husband after 21yrs of marriage, 5 kids and a prescription drug addiction due to 2 disabling accidents on the job just decided he did not care to be married anymore. I had to go to school and become a self supporting woman of society and finish raising my children.
i then met a man who was a Bible believing christian whose wife had left him for another woman and who loved God and his word and to pray with me and was sure we were right for each other and we married. After a short time i found out that he had depression problems, sex addiction and was abusive to me and my children beginning with threatening to divorce me about 6 months after the marriage and even telling my children they were the reason. We converted to Catholicism during our marriage even though things were very rocky between us. I think we both cried, prayed and begged God to save both our marriages and thought we tried everything we knew to do including a marriage encounter weekend and various counselors – separate and together.
Now – I was in my 2nd marriage going through the annulment process in preparation for my reception into the church before I realized issues from my childhood that had affected me in my first marriage not to mention any of his issues. It was also at that time that I got a good look at what the church considered to be “valid” for a marriage and realized that if required, my current marriage would not be able to stand up to the convalidation process (it did not since we were both baptized persons). In fact the process to join the church alone almost wrecked our ship by itself. I think he joined me in the church against his will.
I have now begun the annulment process for a 2nd time after many months of painful grieving over broken dreams and lost hopes and bad decisions. It has become painfully obvious to me through this process and therapy that my 2nd husband and I were not only a bad match in a lot of ways, we were attracted to each other’s brokenness and kept triggering past abuses by our learned coping skills. We really loved each other but we could not separate our messes to get them healed while still married to each other. I needed the space to heal from all the abuse.
But once separation and divorce and lawyers got involved, he no longer wanted to consider us “married in the eyes of God still” and broke off all relations not only with me but the church as well and has moved onto other relationships. I wanted to consider reconciliation because of what the Church and God says about divorce. In fact I found out AFTER the divorce that I have PTSD from past abuse and he may also. But he did not want to consider any of these things. IN fact he forbade me to contact him in any way so that he could move on with his new love.
Now I know statistically I look like a bad bargain, a failure, a quitter, that I must have a flaw somewhere and I am human and broken but to label me that way because I have two divorces does not hardly consider the living, breathing parts of both relationships. Throughout all of this I have continually sought healing and wholeness and will not stop that for my own sake.
I am not proud of my mistakes, nor do I think I am ready to jump back into ANY kind of dating/ marriage relationship but it is hard to live everyday thinking that when I say “I am twice divorced” good Christian people who should love me will judge me instead.
Just wanted you to think about one example of a twice divorced person.

 

[Norseman82]

I do so enjoy watching the Devil’s machinations take shape in a single reply. What was right becomes wrong. Watch the progression here.

1. Note the men who have been married 4 times. The implication is that with practice comes success. Sacred oaths before God and man are secondary. Note the emphasis that they are “happy”. Happy trumps holy.
2. Rather than view divorce as immoral, we now view the unmarried guy at a certain age to be suspect. Unlike the divorcees, he respected the sacrament and either never found a wife or decided he could not go forward with it at the time. The man that remained unmarried, and doing nothing wrong, becomes worse than the man who marries and divorces and rinses and repeats. Quite the inversion there isn’t it?
3. “So a divorced man has made a few bad choices–haven’t we all?” Note how those “bad choices”, presumably the sin of divorce, are equated with any bad choices. Divorce is no more severe than cheating on your taxes or running a red light. It’s all relative. Which leads perfectly to
4. My personal favorite: “I wouldn’t judge”. Never mind the fact that we are all called in the Bible to constantly judge what is holy vs unholy. We are called to judge ourselves first and then others. We are called to judge and embrace what is Godly and judge and reject what is ungodly. Even the phrase “I wouldn’t judge” is itself a judgment about judging.

One of the main reasons for so many divorces is the failure to judge. Divorcees are not necessarily toxic, but anyone thinking of marrying a divorcee should be doubly cautious for themselves and for the divorcee.

I can’t think of a more appropriate time to judge than when getting to know a spouse.

:clapping:

It’s also sad that what was once the exception seems to have become the norm.

 

[Magickman]

Firstly, I am not a marriage seeker.

But, if I was, someone who was twice divorced would not be at the top of my list.

Anyone can make one mistake, but someone who did it twice does not likely take marriage very seriously.

So, my anawer is no, I would not consider marrying a twice divorced person.

It is a deal breaker.

Would you marry someone who was divorced twice?

i, I am on my second marriage and I fear it might end in divorce.

My first one was annulled, and I believe I would easily qualify for a second one. Long story short, I seem to have a pathological attraction to women with low self esteem; or maybe rather, they are attracted to me.

But the question is, if you met someone you really liked, but after a few weeks he (or she) revealed to you that (s)he was twice divorced, would that be an automatic deal breaker? Naturally, I’m talking about a twice annulled marriage too.

There was a time in my life when I used to be very judgmental of divorced people, but wow…I’m not so judgmental anymore.

In my case I have no children (turns out I am infertile), I am very much a practicing Catholic.