Would you permit your child to attend a party in a gay household ?

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Other Eric:
Hi Princess_Abby!

Yes, the Church is for sinners, but isn’t there a real difference between a person who sins and tries to do better and a sinner who not only builds much of his entire life around the sin but openly makes it public knowledge that he commits it?
I would think that a person who has built his entire life around a sin–whether it be alcohol, drugs, lust, or whatever else–are the precise people who most desperately need to be confronted daily with examples of orthodox, faithful Catholic behavior. This is acheived by being a part of a Catholic community, not sending them out to find some free-love protestant community that won’t bother to address the issue.

Gloria has said either in this thread or a different thread that she nor anyone else has bothered to confront them, for fear of what others would say. Gee, that’s productive.
 
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Princess_Abby:
Hmmmmm.

It’s very interesting to me that the sins of sinners whom we can easily identify, we are quick to cast judgement and condemn.

Does anyone honestly believe that their children are convinced that those who attend a Catholic parish are without sin? Is living a gay lifestyle worse than missing mass, using the Lord’s name in vain, having pre-marital heterosexual sex, looking at internet porn, presuming upon God’s mercy, drinking to excess, using drugs, WHATEVER ELSE…

The Church is FOR sinners.

If Gloria wants to kick out the openly gay parents from her parish, she should be sure to do a thorough inventory and get rid of all those who sin in any way which may be discernible to impressionable children. After all, it appears we be teaching them that if they fall in their journey to salvation by becoming entrenched in sin, that they should flee from the Church and not come back again? That if we lose our sanctifying grace and have a family someday, that due to our lifestyle, our children should be deprived of a Catholic education?

This is so bizarre.
:amen: Or–that our children should be deprived of Catholic friends at school or at home? Believe me, I grew up the daughter of a lesbian and I was denied friends left and right because of attitudes like some of the ones shown on this thread. And children grow into adults and never forget the humiliation of discrimination shown by those they once looked up to.

Thank you for posting here, and may God bless your compassion.
 
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Princess_Abby:
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Olympia:
Dear Olympia,

I am so happy to hear that you are apparently incapable of falling from grace and have never committed a mortal sin.

Sadly, most of us have at one time or another fallen and sinned mortally, whatever the sin may or may not be. We need to remain connected with the Church and continue striving for repentance. If that happens slowly and with the experiential aspect of belonging to a faithful Catholic community, we will hopefully be called again and again to reconcile our behavior with Church teaching. Hopefully by the example of our fellow Catholics, we will strive to remain and/or re-obtain sanctifying grace through the sacrament of reconciliation and change our ways to live in accord with God’s plan for our lives.

I fail to see how ostracizing and rejecting a sinner from his faith community, AND his children (yes, Olympia, adopted children belong to the person or persons who adopted them–and yes, Olympia, I’m aware that two men are unable to create a child together, but thank you for the biology lesson) creates any sort of positive spiritual development. Jesus ate with the sinners, he didn’t cast them out on the streets. St. Faustina writes about how Jesus weeps for sinners to nestle into Him and allow Him to forgive and heal them.

Olympia, perhaps you could share with us your strategies for living a life free of any sin. If it were up to you and GloriaPat, perhaps the rest of us wouldn’t be allowed to sit foot in sacred space.
Double :amen: !! Very well said, Princess Abby. This is precisely how I feel. I’m so glad you are on here posting because it has become increasingly difficult for me to address these sorts of issues without getting angry at all the intolerance and lack of compassion, because of having grown up in the fifties and sixties and early seventies with a lesbian mother. Yup, these homos have been around for years and they’re not gonna go away! Nope! and before anyone jumps to conclusions, No, I am not a homosexual. I am a Catholic heterosexual female.
 
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Princess_Abby:
I would think that a person who has built his entire life around a sin–whether it be alcohol, drugs, lust, or whatever else–are the precise people who most desperately need to be confronted daily with examples of orthodox, faithful Catholic behavior. This is acheived by being a part of a Catholic community, not sending them out to find some free-love protestant community that won’t bother to address the issue.

Gloria has said either in this thread or a different thread that she nor anyone else has bothered to confront them, for fear of what others would say. Gee, that’s productive.
Nothing would justify the scandal done to the kids.
 
I just joined this forum today. I was excited to read what other Catholics had to say about different topics. Unfortunately this was the first “poll” I responded to and began reading what other so called Catholics wrote. I am so offended by you conservative judgemental bigots. Please do not represent yourself as Catholics. You do not represent the faith in which I was raised. A faith of love, acceptance, and social justice. What do you guys do? Just go to church on Sunday and judge others who don’t live by your rules. I would so prefer my child enter a home of gay/lesbian couples who are loving (I am friends with many) than my child enter one of your homes. You are nasty people!!
 
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MontrBeach:
You are nasty people!!
I object! I shower.

A gay “couple” is immoral and wrong. It is not a sin to be gay, but it is a sin to participate in homosexual activities. If you show acceptance of such activities, you are condoning them.
 
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MontrBeach:
I just joined this forum today. I was excited to read what other Catholics had to say about different topics. Unfortunately this was the first “poll” I responded to and began reading what other so called Catholics wrote. I am so offended by you conservative judgemental bigots. Please do not represent yourself as Catholics. You do not represent the faith in which I was raised. A faith of love, acceptance, and social justice. What do you guys do? Just go to church on Sunday and judge others who don’t live by your rules. I would so prefer my child enter a home of gay/lesbian couples who are loving (I am friends with many) than my child enter one of your homes. You are nasty people!!
The Truth, know it, love it, live it.

From the CCC
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89
 
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Princess_Abby:
Hmmmmm.

It’s very interesting to me that the sins of sinners whom we can easily identify, we are quick to cast judgement and condemn.

Does anyone honestly believe that their children are convinced that those who attend a Catholic parish are without sin? Is living a gay lifestyle worse than missing mass, using the Lord’s name in vain, having pre-marital heterosexual sex, looking at internet porn, presuming upon God’s mercy, drinking to excess, using drugs, WHATEVER ELSE…

The Church is FOR sinners.

If Gloria wants to kick out the openly gay parents from her parish, she should be sure to do a thorough inventory and get rid of all those who sin in any way which may be discernible to impressionable children. After all, it appears we be teaching them that if they fall in their journey to salvation by becoming entrenched in sin, that they should flee from the Church and not come back again? That if we lose our sanctifying grace and have a family someday, that due to our lifestyle, our children should be deprived of a Catholic education?

This is so bizarre.
I’m with you Princess Abby. I’m sure not perfect and I don’t know anyone who is. Punishing the kids of the gay couple b/c they happen to have two dads or two moms is not right. By allowing your kids to go to said party you are in no way going to make them gay or be condoning the lifestyle of the parents. We have to love sinners (but can dislike the sin), seeing as how we’re all sinners in some way.
 
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Trelow:
The Truth, know it, love it, live it.

From the CCC
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."87 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,88 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"89
So? There’s all kinds of information in the CCC, about pride, arrogance, judging others, etc. I don’t believe the CCC is meant for Catholics to throw at one another like a weapon of judgement.

“Judge not lest ye be judged.” and “He who is without sin cast the first stone.”
 
I would welcome that child into my home & life and hopefully he would see an example of a Godly family who loves Jesus. I’m THRILLED that child is able to attend a Catholic school where he’ll hopefully learn that God’s plan for us is best and that a man & woman were created to be together. I want that child to have a very positive image of Jesus & Chrisitans and shunning him isn’t going to accomplish that. I agree with the poster who said Jesus hung out with sinners. If we only surround ourselves with Christians who have no “obvious sin” (it’s there though- you know it, I know it) what sort of light can we be??

I know of what I speak… I was a child of divorce, living with a mother who contanstly had boyfriends at our house. Most kids were not allowed to play with me and I had no idea what I did wrong. Believe me, the one or two Christian Mothers I met who were kind to me, invited me into their homes, offered to take me to church etc. made SUCH an impression on me. That’s the example of charity & love I’d like to follow.
 
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vegpotter:
I’m with you Princess Abby. I’m sure not perfect and I don’t know anyone who is. Punishing the kids of the gay couple b/c they happen to have two dads or two moms is not right. By allowing your kids to go to said party you are in no way going to make them gay or be condoning the lifestyle of the parents. We have to love sinners (but can dislike the sin), seeing as how we’re all sinners in some way.
Right on, vegpotter–I’m with you and Princess Abby, too. It is sooooo true that we are ALL sinners in some way. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” That’s what I learned in Catechism. And that was back in the sixties!! Amen!!
 
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NightRider:
So? There’s all kinds of information in the CCC, about pride, arrogance, judging others, etc. I don’t believe the CCC is meant for Catholics to throw at one another like a weapon of judgement.

“Judge not lest ye be judged.” and “He who is without sin cast the first stone.”
I’ll judge no one’s salvation, but you can bet your last horse I’ll judge thier actions.

Call me arrogant for bosting in the Lord, but I’m afraid that St. Paul would argue on my behalf.
 
carol marie:
I would welcome that child into my home & life and hopefully he would see an example of a Godly family who loves Jesus. I’m THRILLED that child is able to attend a Catholic school where he’ll hopefully learn that God’s plan for us is best and that a man & woman were created to be together. I want that child to have a very positive image of Jesus & Chrisitans and shunning him isn’t going to accomplish that. I agree with the poster who said Jesus hung out with sinners. If we only surround ourselves with Christians who have no “obvious sin” (it’s there though- you know it, I know it) what sort of light can we be??

I know of what I speak… I was a child of divorce, living with a mother who contanstly had boyfriends at our house. Most kids were not allowed to play with me and I had no idea what I did wrong. Believe me, the one or two Christian Mothers I met who were kind to me, invited me into their homes, offered to take me to church etc. made SUCH an impression on me. That’s the example of charity & love I’d like to follow.
Me, too, carolmarie! You said it very well. I remember the Catholic families who let me in to their homes and I was treated very well with much love there–their love confirmed my faith in Jesus’ Love, and this got me through much of the other discrimination I faced in life because of my mother’s sexuality. Thank God for those Catholic families who didn’t judge me *or *my mother. They accepted us as children of God and treated us accordingly. Thank you, Jesus.
 
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Trelow:
I’ll judge no one’s salvation, but you can bet your last horse I’ll judge thier actions.

Call me arrogant for bosting in the Lord, but I’m afraid that St. Paul would argue on my behalf.
Apparently you’re willing to go against Our Lord’s own words about not judging others, as well, in order to be “afraid that St Paul would argue on” your “behalf.” Your choice! Oh well. Buh-bye!
 
I think the question was “Would you permit your child to attend a party in a gay household?” Not would you permit the child of gay parents into your household. I have kids over to our home from a variety of “dysfunctional” homes. I am kind to their parent(s) and am charitable to the kids when they’re over. However, I won’t let my kids go to certain home environments due to bad influences (including older pot smoking siblings, older siblings who sit in front of violent video games in the living room, single dad homes who shack up with girlfriends, alcoholic parents). BTW, I was still wondering if Gloria plans on keeping her kids at the school.

God Bless
Giannawannabe
 
Why not? Gay have a soul and are children of God as well. Have you met the family? Do not judge lets thy be judged. Remember, do unto others as you would done unto to you? Treat others as you would like to be treated! If the family was poor would you ask this question as well? Gay people go to Church as well; have believes and faith sometime stronger than the not gay population. I am not sure what you are asking. Gay – is not hereditary as some other common diseases. Being “gay” is not a disease. As a matter of fact the “gay” word comes from France, meaning, happy, having a sense of well-being, free from sadness. Sad that this word would be used in defining someone else’s personal preferences. It is, was, a wonderful word. Does anyone know why it was used to define the preferences or is it still because when anyone says a “bad” word, they will say “excuse my French” even though they do not know anything about the French? Do you know?

Personally, I would have no qualms about letting my child go to a party (birthday party) to a Gay household.

So pray, God’s anwser is on its way the minute you put it to Him. Be calm and listen.

God Bless

Raymonde
 
i was raised in a very strict catholic household and constantly heard derogatory comments about people living a different lifestyle. I was about 4 or 5 years old when i first asked my parents what the word fag meant. My parents described it as a individual who is sick and needs help but souldn’t always be discriminated against because they may not be able to help themselves. And being christian we should always be warm and friendly yet i see everyone who disagrees with homosexuality being extremely hostile toward a fellow human being. Also who are we to cast the first stone toward these people who have a right to choose to sin or not to sin and even if you quote the bible and tell me it says that it is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord for a man to lie with another man. Homosexuality is not the sin. Wouldn’t it be a man having sex with another man be the sin. So what if a man or woman is attracted to the same gender. Are we really going to say thoughts are sinful. I think many things throughout the day and i would be afraid to think i may go to hell because of some of them. Anyway some things that are said in the bible are not totally revelent in todays world and if you are a strict believer in the catholic faith you would listen to the pope and follow everything he says because when he sits in St.Peter’s chair it is not him speaking but God and therefore he is second in command because he is a holy vessel yet i bet there is at least one catholic in the world who doesn’t agree with the pope at all times. So is that person a sinner because he disagrees with the pope and in turn so disagrees with God. I believe we should just accept what is going on in the world and face that this so called “problem” is not going to go away. So when asked if i would allow my child to go to a party at a home where the parents or guardians of the other child live an alternative life style i would say yes because anything else would be going against Jesus’ teachings and would also spread hate:angel1: May the goddess bless all of you
 
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NightRider:
Apparently you’re willing to go against Our Lord’s own words about not judging others, as well, in order to be “afraid that St Paul would argue on” your “behalf.” Your choice! Oh well. Buh-bye!
Apparently you’re willing to not understand our Lord’s words.

We are not to judge the state of someones soul.
We are definatly required to judge someones actions. If not then you woudl be wrong in judging that I would be wrong in judging.

Sally - " Molly you know Jim is a member of NAMBLA, You can’t let Billy go over there unsupervised."

Molly- “HOW DARE YOU JUDGE HIM SALLY! YOU KNOW WHAT JESUS SAID ABOTU JUDGING! Besides they are haveign some sort of “photography meeting”, ther will be others there. BILLY! DON’T FORGET YORU SLEEPING BAG!”

Silly Truth, always seams to get in the way of asinine arguments.
 
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