Would you prefer to live in a Catholic theocracy?

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Since the fall, mankind is sinful by nature. Although a theocracy claims to govern according to the will of God, it is in actuality governed by sinful men who believe that they know God’s will and that anyone who does not agree with them must, by definition, be opposing God. As a result, any theocracy short of the theocracy of God himself is predestined to be tyrannical. While other governments are subject to the same tyrannical tendencies, those which are based on constitutional and democratic principles encompass a balance of power that does not allow one person, or party, to totally predominate to the detriment of all others.
 
Yes I would like to see God’s will done on earth as it is in
heaven. What’s right is right and should be strived for, not
given up on and handed over to Ceasar. Racism has also been
a problem throughout history, that is no reason to give up on
the idea of fighting it and just wait for people to come into right
thinking on their own time. If we have to wait for this, there would
still be slaves in our country today.
 
I just want to comment that it is sad that so many people here are opposed to a Catholic Theocracy, stating that it would corrupt the Church. This is the same argument used during the French Revolution, etc. The argument used to steal away church property (papal states). The Church can, and has, legitimately administered temoral affairs.

Catholig
 
These are my thoughts based on what I currently see in our world today. I haven’t done that much study in history but I’m getting there. 😉

I don’t know that I would support a theocracy. I can definitely see some plus’ and minus’ for it. However, democracies are far from perfect. They usually end up being run by a major group of like minded people. In other words by their nature they create divisions with in the people of that nation. There is no honest unity. We can see this in our own country’s history (USA). Their are people in the US who do believe that because of these division we have we are currently headed in the direction of another civil war. I don’t think that’s a good thing. It was division that started the civil war in the first. Most of the world’s major nations are some form of a democracy. These same nations are also in a mess. At this point I can honestly say I don’t know that I would support a theocracy but I’m leaning more in that direction.
 
No way!

(as if that wouldn’t be my obvious answer 😛 )

Let the Church govern the Church and concern itself with spiritual affairs; leave the state and temporal duties to the state. After all, we supposedly possess free will, and a theocracy of any stripe would be an attempt to nullify that. And given the dissension and mismanagement already apparent in the Church, it’s got enough on its plate as it stands.
 
For the most part, the Papal States were well governed, particularly when the context of the times are considered. Italian secular governance had some bright spots, but a lot of dark ones. Certainly, had I lived at the time of Italian unification, I would have readily donned the uniform of the Papal Zouaves to protect the Pope. But looking back at it, I have to question whether preservation of the Papal States would have been a good thing.

Since preservation of the Papal States (like that of all secular governments) required a massive diplomatic effort and occasional war, one has to question whether Papal governance of a state is all that desirable from the standpoint of the Church. Human beings being what they are, could the Church really preserve a state without occasionally resorting to war; to diplomatic bluster; to suppression of insurrectionists and terrorists? Seems doubtul. Even if the Vatican ruled the entire world, there would always be need for the use of force. Would the Church really want to, e.g., jail people for tax evasion? It doesn’t seem so to me.

Therefore, while it seems an ideal thing in theory, I can’t help but think the ideal would not be achieved, and that the Church would find itself forced to do things it would not be healthy for it to do.
 
It would get out of control. I am an old fashioned man, I am a huge fan of Democracy.
A Catholic theocracy would have the 10 Commandments visible in schools and children would have a greater God-consciousness.

There would be no ACLU and Christmas trees and creches would have a fuller, more joyous contemplation of the arrival of Our Redeemer. God would bless that society.
 
A Catholic theocracy would have the 10 Commandments visible in schools and children would have a greater God-consciousness.

There would be no ACLU and Christmas trees and creches would have a fuller, more joyous contemplation of the arrival of Our Redeemer. God would bless that society.
I don’t get the ACLU hate. They exist purely to help out the underdog, and they’ve come running for beleaguered Christians when it’s needed – it just happens that since Christians are the majority of the country’s population and comprise almost all its leadership, that doesn’t happen too often.
 
I don’t get the ACLU hate. They exist purely to help out the underdog, and they’ve come running for beleaguered Christians when it’s needed – it just happens that since Christians are the majority of the country’s population and comprise almost all its leadership, that doesn’t happen too often.
Underdogs like this?

ACLU To Represent NAMBLA
By Martin Finucane
Associated Press Writer
Thursday, Aug. 31, 2000; 5:19 p.m. EDT

BOSTON –– Saying important First Amendment issues are at stake, the American Civil Liberties Union is stepping in to defend a group that advocates sex between men and boys against a lawsuit brought by the family of a murdered 10-year-old.

The family of Jeffrey Curley of Cambridge claims in its lawsuit that the North American Man/Boy Love Association and its Web site incited the molestation and murder of the boy in 1997.

The Massachusetts chapter of the ACLU said Thursday it will defend NAMBLA because the group’s activities are protected under First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech and freedom of association.

“Under the First Amendment, there are no illegal ideas. Those who commit illegal acts can be punished for wrongful conduct, but the expression of even offensive ideas is protected by our Constitution,” the ACLU said in a statement.

The ACLU has long accepted unpopular clients and despised causes, including Ku Klux Klansmen and neo-Nazis. In 1977, the ACLU defended the right of Nazis to march in Skokie, Ill. – home to many Holocaust survivors. Thousands of ACLU members quit and contributions plunged.

“The Constitution is for everybody. But there are some people who just don’t understand that and never will,” said Harvey Silverglate, an ACLU board member.

Silverglate noted also that NAMBLA had been having trouble finding a lawyer. He said the decision to represent NAMBLA had been made by an overwhelming vote of the local ACLU board.

One of two men convicted in the murder, Charles Jaynes, 25, allegedly viewed the group’s Web site shortly before the murder, and also had NAMBLA publications. Also convicted of murder was 24-year-old Salvatore Sicari.

A call to NAMBLA in New York was not immediately returned. A message on the answering machine describes it as an organization that “speaks out against societal oppression and celebrates the joys of men and boys in love.”

ACLU officials said that NAMBLA argues for changes in society’s views about consensual sex between adults and minors and a lowering of the age of consent. Silverglate said NAMBLA does not advocate illegal acts, and even if it did, that, too, would be protected by the First Amendment.

It is ilegal in Massachusetts to have sex with a child under 16.

Lawrence Frisoli, an attorney for the Curleys, said NAMBLA has stepped over the line from advocacy into actually participating in crimes.

“The commission of crimes is not constitutionally protected by the First Amendment. They participate. That’s the allegation of the lawsuit, that the organization is participating in the rape of children,” he said.

Frisoli claimed that NAMBLA assists its members in raping children by educating them on how to locate victims, how to gain their trust and how to avoid law enforcement so they won’t get caught.

At separate trials last year, prosecutors said Jaynes and Sicari were sexually obsessed with the boy, and lured him from his Cambridge neighborhood with the promise of a new bike, then smothered him with a gasoline-soaked rag when he resisted their sexual advances. Jaynes allegedly molested the boy’s lifeless body.

They then stuffed him into a concrete-filled container and dumped it into a Maine river.

Sicari is serving a life sentence without parole. Jaynes can seek parole in 23 years.

The Curley family last week won a $328 million verdict in a lawsuit against Jaynes and Sicari.

© Copyright 2000 The Associated Press
 
Since the fall, mankind is sinful by nature. Although a theocracy claims to govern according to the will of God, it is in actuality governed by sinful men who believe that they know God’s will and that anyone who does not agree with them must, by definition, be opposing God. As a result, any theocracy short of the theocracy of God himself is predestined to be tyrannical. While other governments are subject to the same tyrannical tendencies, those which are based on constitutional and democratic principles encompass a balance of power that does not allow one person, or party, to totally predominate to the detriment of all others.
Well Said!
As long man has a predisposition to sin, the Idea of theocratic or
oligarchical governments inveritably leads to tyranny.
 
IMHO, no. Because by doing so we could not come “feely” to Jesus and His Church.

1814 Faith is the theological virtue by which we believe in God and believe all that he has said and revealed to us, and that Holy Church proposes for our belief, because he is truth itself. By faith “man freely commits his entire self to God.” For this reason the believer seeks to know and do God’s will. “The righteous shall live by faith.” Living faith “work through charity.”
 
Underdogs like this?

The family of Jeffrey Curley of Cambridge claims in its lawsuit that the North American Man/Boy Love Association and its Web site incited the molestation and murder of the boy in 1997.

The Massachusetts chapter of the ACLU said Thursday it will defend NAMBLA because the group’s activities are protected under First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech and freedom of association.

“Under the First Amendment, there are no illegal ideas. Those who commit illegal acts can be punished for wrongful conduct, but the expression of even offensive ideas is protected by our Constitution,” the ACLU said in a statement.
Yes, even those. I despise NAMBLA as much as anyone, but they committed no crime here. They’re being blamed for what other people did. Would you support the abolition of all pro-life websites merely because of the activities of Paul Hill?
 
A Catholic theocracy would have the 10 Commandments visible in schools and children would have a greater God-consciousness.

There would be no ACLU and Christmas trees and creches would have a fuller, more joyous contemplation of the arrival of Our Redeemer. God would bless that society.
Hmmm, then what happens to those who light a Menorah, or a Yule Log, or celebrate Ramadan (yes, I know that’s in Sept)? There’s a reason for seperation of Church and State. A very important one. People should be able to worship as they please weather it be Catholic, Protastant, Jewish, Muslim, Budidst, Pagan, Whatever. YKWIM? That’s why I love being American

Kim
 
I don’t get the ACLU hate. They exist purely to help out the underdog, and they’ve come running for beleaguered Christians when it’s needed – it just happens that since Christians are the majority of the country’s population and comprise almost all its leadership, that doesn’t happen too often.
Of course - help the underdog Nazis, the underdog KKK, the underdog Catholic haters.

Catholig
 
I think any country that would not allow someone to reject or accept God, would interfere with God’s plan.
 
I think any country that would not allow someone to reject or accept God, would interfere with God’s plan.
I’m unsure whether a Catholic Theocracy would do that. I mean - I know that protestantism wasn’t allowed to practice in the papal states, however I don’t remember anything that said you’d be arrested if you didn’t believe in god or didn’t attend church.

Catholig
 
Very interesting question! Initially, without giving it a whole lot of thought, my answer would be yes, I would love to.

It’s been a long time since I read the Old Testament, but wasn’t a theocracy God’s original idea for Israel? Wasn’t Samuel supposed to be Israel’s leader, but Israel wanted a king just like all the other nations had?
 
Of course - help the underdog Nazis, the underdog KKK, the underdog Catholic haters.

Catholig
That’s what I love most about this country, if anything – we’re free to be stupid and say anything we want, no matter how mindbogglingly nitwitted it may be. Actions are and should be restricted, but that’s not what the ACLU is fighting for in those cases.
 
I don’t get the ACLU hate. They exist purely to help out the underdog, and they’ve come running for beleaguered Christians when it’s needed – it just happens that since Christians are the majority of the country’s population and comprise almost all its leadership, that doesn’t happen too often.
The “underdog” today is Christianity…where is the ACLU in helping us?
 
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