Would you support mandatory tracking devices on all new cars?

[Robert_Sock]

the fact that there is deception in the world doesn’t mean we should flat out reject everything other than God. Rather, it calls for reading into things rather than just taking things at face value. For example you know that MSNBC is bias towards the left, you would keep that in mind when reading an article about any event on their website even if it wasn’t political, Fox news is bias towards the right, same things applies. We should take media with a grain of salt I agree, but scholarly work is different it.

Scholarly work is always peer reviewed and because of this the reliability of this goes way up. If someone makes a historical claim in a peer reviewed journal the reliability of that source is very high.

Again, sure there is deception the world, but saying that the Bible is the only reliable historical source (many parts of the bible are very questionable as far as it’s historical accuracy, this is for another thread) is problematic.

Earthy science is a scam!!! I worked as a social scientist most of my life, and I can assure you that peer reviews are often so lose that they distort truth. It’s usually publish or perish, and everybody knows that. It’s a game that they play in academia. Yes, there are articles written that sheds light on a particular issue, but by and large, the methodology in most research is shabby.

 

[catholictiger]

Earthy science is a scam!!! I worked as a social scientist most of my life, and I can assure you that peer reviews are often so lose that they distort truth. It’s usually publish or perish, and everybody knows that. It’s a game that they play in academia. Yes, there are articles written that sheds light on a particular issue, but by and large, the methodology in most research is shabby.

but why does this require to throw all of science out the window?

I get your skepticism but it just seems to radical.

 

[Wampa]

We’re already part of the way there, according to Ford’s Global VP/Marketing and Sales:

From businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1:

‘Farley was trying to describe how much data Ford has on its customers, and illustrate the fact that the company uses very little of it in order to avoid raising privacy concerns: “We know everyone who breaks the law, we know when you’re doing it. We have GPS in your car, so we know what you’re doing. By the way, we don’t supply that data to anyone,” he told attendees.’

 

[Wampa]

Here’s a real-life example of the dangers.

In my city, police are now scanning all license plates they drives past. All of that data goes into a giant database, which is at least partially publicly. Now that people are using that data for their own means (for example, repo companies), state legislators are scrambling to tighten up access to the info before abusive men starting using it to track down their estranged wives/girlfriends.

Even when they do pass laws to make the data non-public, I wouldn’t trust the government to be able to keep the data non-public. Large corporations have basically proven their complete inability to prevent hackers from stealing all of our personal data. I don’t see a strong case to believe the government could protect that data from abuse if it had it.

And that’s aside from the many dangers of the people within the government abusing the data. We’ve got a huge scandal over that, too, in my state as attractive women seem to have hundreds of police officers checking out their driver’s licenses and accessing their home address info: startribune.com/local/224004771.html.

Sorry, the trust level does not exist for the benefits to outweigh the negatives.

 

[Robert_Sock]

but why does this require to throw all of science out the window?

I get your skepticism but it just seems to radical.

It’s far wiser to focus all your attention on Christ than wasting your spiritual energy on mundane, worldly things, such as science.

You are free to believe in anything earthly scientific, but I think science is just an illusion.

LOVE!

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

If only we were completely dead to self, and free from inner conflict, we could savour spiritual things, and win experience of heavenly contemplation.
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 11

1 Peter 5:5 RSV
Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

I didn’t know you wanted to get spiritual…

OK I can play along.

As to government tracking devices…:

Isaiah 10:1 “WOE to them that make wicked laws: and when they write, write injustice”

From the CCC:

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT

CHAPTER TWO
THE HUMAN COMMUNITY

ARTICLE 2
PARTICIPATION IN SOCIAL LIFE

1903 Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it.** If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, “authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse.”**

1904 "It is preferable that each power be balanced by other powers and by other spheres of responsibility which keep it within proper bounds.** This is the principle of the ‘rule of law,’ in which the law is sovereign and not the arbitrary will of men.**

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

That is the rule of law.

Therefore tracking devices would be a shameful abuse and not binding on Catholics…

 

[Robert_Sock]

I didn’t know you wanted to get spiritual…

OK I can play along.

As to government tracking devices…:

Isaiah 10:1 “WOE to them that make wicked laws: and when they write, write injustice”

From the CCC:

PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT

CHAPTER TWO
THE HUMAN COMMUNITY

ARTICLE 2
PARTICIPATION IN SOCIAL LIFE

1903 Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it.** If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, “authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse.”**

1904 "It is preferable that each power be balanced by other powers and by other spheres of responsibility which keep it within proper bounds.** This is the principle of the ‘rule of law,’ in which the law is sovereign and not the arbitrary will of men.**

That is the rule of law.

Therefore tracking devices would be a shameful abuse and not binding on Catholics…

I fail to follow your logic in how what you presented has to do with tracking devices.

LOVE!

 

[catholictiger]

It’s far wiser to focus all your attention on Christ than wasting your spiritual energy on mundane, worldly things, such as science.

You are free to believe in anything earthly scientific, but I think science is just an illusion.

LOVE!

I strongly disagree

read this

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/1988/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_19880601_padre-coyne_en.html

 

[St_Francis]

Can you please point out where using a quote? Otherwise it’s just more slander. Very rude and disrespectful! Why???

LOVE!

Robert, I am totally sorry that that came across in a bad way. I did not mean it that way but in a fond sort of way. On other threads about poverty in particular, you hace a tendency to repeat your points with no indication that you have read tye otyer person’s points at all. You don’t respond to their points with an explanation of why what you are saying is better than what they are saying.

And that’s OK. We are used to that and I for one don’t worry about it or think less of you because of it or anything. But I could not help but see the irony in what you wrote.

And to be honest, I *really *needed a lighthearted laugh at that moment. i am very sorry to have been unclear and will be more aware of that in the future.

 

[adawgj]

Why should the government know where I’m going.

Can’t I have some privacy and not have to have some bureaucrat stalking me wherever I go.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I fail to follow your logic in how what you presented has to do with tracking devices.

LOVE!

Gee…I thought it would have been fairly obvious.

OK…

In order to install government approved tracking devices in new cars a law would need to be passed requiring manufacturers to add them.

Since only you and three other misguided souls support tracking devices and EVERYONE else is offended by the idea…it would be a wicked, unjust law.

Isaiah has some pretty strong words about that in 10:1

The Catechism speaks very plainly about unjust laws and how they would not be binding in conscience. It also speaks of the rule of law (Lex Rex rather than Rex Lex)

The Constitution of the United States is the law of the land (Lex Rex). The Fourth Amendment protects our right of privacy from government intrusion.

Therefore since the teachings of the Catholic Church support our Constitution ( or is it the other way around…??? Whatever)…tracking devices are a bad idea and would be a bad law.

A great American President once said:

You do not examine legislation in the light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in the light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.

 

[Brigid34]

We may all be innocent until proven guilty, but we are not all law abiding… many criminals who have committed a crime and used a car. Why should we let criminals get away so easily?

LOVE!

This is the only reason (children that are kidnapped) that I go along with the tracking device. Otherwise it impinges on our civil liberties.

 

[Wampa]

We may all be innocent until proven guilty, but we are not all law abiding… many criminals who have committed a crime and used a car. Why should we let criminals get away so easily?

We don’t. We already have a middle-ground where police can track criminals without tracking law-abiding citizens. They just have to show probable cause and they can slap a GPS unit on the car of a suspected criminal. It’s happening right now:

“GPS is new tool to help police crack cases, but critics worry about privacy”:
startribune.com/local/east/237206511.html

There’s no need to infringe on the rights of every American when we can selectively and judiciously target just the criminals.

 

[tabycat]

I honestly believe that we would all be doing ourselves a favor to use our time more wisely in surrendering to Christ. Oh, how I wish I would have entered a monastery instead of earning a PhD.

I’m on medical disability and I sit at home all day. I do not know why, but it’s ever so tempting to interact with fellow Catholics.

I try to read a chapter a day of The Imitation of Christ and I find that it’s leading me closer and closer to contemplation.

Don’t sell yourself short, seek the gold by growing closer to Christ daily, ignoring all the spirit-robbing noise and chatter of the world. Learning ‘history’ will not bring you closer to Christ, and learning it is so unnecessary.

LOVE!

If you are ‘ignoring all the spirit-robbing noise and chatter of the world’, why are you on the internet? Or maybe you do not consider these forums as part of the world?
If you do not know history (past what is in the Bible), you may not be able answer questons like Were did we get the Bible? and What did the Saints do on earth to be called Saints when they are in Heaven? Do not forget the books like The Imitation of Christ are a form of history.

 

[tabycat]

Earthy science is a scam!!! I worked as a social scientist most of my life, and I can assure you that peer reviews are often so lose that they distort truth. It’s usually publish or perish, and everybody knows that. It’s a game that they play in academia. Yes, there are articles written that sheds light on a particular issue, but by and large, the methodology in most research is shabby.

Does ‘eathy science’ include genicies and the the big bang thoery (both based on the work of Catholic priestes)? Are they a 'scam"?

 

[Robert_Sock]

If you are ‘ignoring all the spirit-robbing noise and chatter of the world’, why are you on the internet? Or maybe you do not consider these forums as part of the world?
If you do not know history (past what is in the Bible), you may not be able answer questons like Were did we get the Bible? and What did the Saints do on earth to be called Saints when they are in Heaven? Do not forget the books like The Imitation of Christ are a form of history.

We are stuck in this world. There is no escaping it except to grow closer to Christ. I read The Imitation of Christ everyday, and I pay close attention when it says we ought to not be a part of this world.

 

[Robert_Sock]

For the vast majority of people who voted ‘no,’ should we get rid of Social Security cards and driver’s licenses? They must certainly be viewed by ‘no’ people as violating their privacy. Social Security numbers serve an important function in society, but are also used to keep track of people. Anyway, I have never seen a tread or petition to have them banned.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. Driving carries along with it certain rules and regulations. I see tracking devices as a part of these criteria for driving since cars are often used in crimes.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

For the vast majority of people who voted ‘no,’ should we get rid of Social Security cards and driver’s licenses? They must certainly be viewed by ‘no’ people as violating their privacy. Social Security numbers serve an important function in society, but are also used to keep track of people. Anyway, I have never seen a tread or petition to have them banned.

By themselves government issued IDs don’t track some one. Those IDs could play a role in tracking in much the same way that your name could play a role in tracking; it could be attached to a tracking record and used to uniquely identify you. But it is not a record of tracking itself.

 

[tabycat]

We are stuck in this world. There is no escaping it except to grow closer to Christ. I read The Imitation of Christ everyday, and I pay close attention when it says we ought to not be a part of this world.

You may not be ‘a part of this world’ but everytime you read a book (any book) or post on this forum you are using things that are part of this world. All of us (incuding both of us) have to be careful of not being so heavenly minded that we are no earthly good.

 

[Robert_Sock]

By themselves government issued IDs don’t track some one. Those IDs could play a role in tracking in much the same way that your name could play a role in tracking; it could be attached to a tracking record and used to uniquely identify you. But it is not a record of tracking itself.

I said “keep track of people” not “track people.”

LOVE!