Would you support military action in the US to end abortion?

[Verisimilitude]

Use the military against US citizens? No. A thousand times no.

I should have made this a public poll so I wouldn’'t have to ask: Do you support our military actions in Iraq?

If you want to criminalize something, use the police force.

I agree. Are the ‘terrorists’ in Iraq criminals or war combatants? (If war combatants…did we legally declare war on them?)

 

[Verisimilitude]

Why should we?

Why use the military in Iraq? Is this so hard to comprehend? Dd you read the OP?

 

[vz71]

No. First I don’t call the tens of thousands of unintended deaths in Iraq as accidental.

I see…so unintended is not the same as accidental.
Not certain I agree with that.
Logic to me dictates that when you do one thing, and the result is not what you intended it to be, there was an accident.
Perhaps my logic is flawed there…?

I call them unjust similarly as the deliberate murder of children in America under the guise of ‘settled law’ such as Roe.

Unjust or unintended?
Or both…?

So you equate the deliberate murder of the innocent unborn with accidental, unintended deaths?

 

[estesbob]

Why use the military in Iraq? Is this so hard to comprehend? Dd you read the OP?

I read the original post and as I said it was just plain silly. If you want to start a thread to debate (for the millionth time) the appropriateness of the Liberation of Iraq do so. If you want to start a debate on what methods whould be used to end abortion then start a thread doing so. Neither have anything to do with each other.

 

[Verisimilitude]

So you equate the deliberate murder of the innocent unborn with accidental, unintended deaths?

If the reason (war in Iraq) we kill them is not legitimate, how is their death legitimate or excused?

Let’s say I am going through the neighborhood, peaking in peoples windows to make sure everyone is safe. I spot a man raping a woman in a home on my block. To save the woman I bust in with my guns blazing to save the woman, and unitentionally I kill both.

It is a nobel thing to try and save the woman, but killing her in my attempts to save her while I was illegally peaking in her window…would you convict me and send me to jail despite my intentions? Or pat me on the back and encourage others to start peaking in windows?

 

[Verisimilitude]

I read the original post and as I said it was just plain silly. If you want to start a thread to debate (for the millionth time) the appropriateness of the Liberation of Iraq do so. If you want to start a debate on what methods whould be used to end abortion then start a thread doing so. Neither have anything to do with each other.

You are wrong in both. They do equate.

 

[vz71]

If the reason (war in Iraq) we kill them is not legitimate, how is their death legitimate or excused?

One step at a time here.

I’m still trying to figure out if you equate the deliberate murder of the unborn with accidental death.
And I have dropped your use of the term unintended deaths as I noted in your post that accidental death and unintended death are the same.

So…Do you?

 

[Verisimilitude]

One step at a time here.

I’m still trying to figure out if you equate the deliberate murder of the unborn with accidental death.

Do you?

Accidental death is drowning in a pool. Not being shot by a US soldier because the soldier thought you had a gun in your home when he kicked the door in at night loking for a terrorist. Do you think that is an accident of the same type?

 

[vz71]

Let’s say I am going through the neighborhood, peaking in peoples windows to make sure everyone is safe. I spot a man raping a woman in a home on my block. To save the woman I bust in with my guns blazing to save the woman, and unitentionally I kill both.

Accidental death is drowning in a pool. Not being shot by a US soldier because the soldier thought you had a gun in your home when he kicked the door in at night loking for a terrorist.

So an unintended death is not accidental??
Your logic escapes me here.
But just so I cover all bases here…

Is it your intention to equate the murder of the unborn with unintended deaths?
Is it your intention to equate the murder of the unborn with accidental death?

Not that I see the two as seperate, but you apparently do .

 

[Verisimilitude]

So an unintended death is not accidental??
Your logic escapes me here.
But just so I cover all bases here…

Is it your intention to equate the murder of the unborn with unintended deaths?
Is it your intention to equate the murder of the unborn with accidental death?

Not that I see the two as seperate, but you apparently do .

I am suggesting we stop both murder in America and unintended death in Iraq. I see both as equally unjust, you seem to argue the unintended death is just. We could use our military to end both; one by stopping the unintended deaths in Iraq if we were not there, and if we used the military in America tro stop th emurder of children.

Is your fear of terrorists greater than that of an abortionist? The aborted baby doesn’t know if it is Dr. Tiller or bin Laden crushing its skull. The dead child in Iraq doesn’t know if it is Saddams army, the American army, the Sunni, the Shiite when the bullet ends its life.

 

[estesbob]

So an unintended death is not accidental??
Your logic escapes me here.
But just so I cover all bases here…

Is it your intention to equate the murder of the unborn with unintended deaths?
Is it your intention to equate the murder of the unborn with accidental death?

Not that I see the two as seperate, but you apparently do .

It appears the intention is slime the troops as being the moral equivalent of abortionists.

We’ve seen this a lot in the last few years-intense hatred of the current administration and opposition to the Iraq war leads to the kind of absurdity that was the premise of this threat

 

[Verisimilitude]

It appears the intention is slime the troops as being the moral equivalent of abortionists.

I resent that, estesbob and you should apologize. I have the utmost respect for our military. I served and so have millions of others. The full blame for any unintended death in Iraq lies on the shoulders of the civilian policy makers which sent them there unlawfully, and those who vote them in and keep them in power. I share in some of that blame and I am trying to recify my guilt in it.

We’ve seen this a lot in the last few years-intense hatred of the current administration and opposition to the Iraq war leads to the kind of absurdity that was the premise of this threat

I hate the neo-conservative policy that has gripped this nation. It is as bad as the liberal agenda.

 

[demol]

No. Not sure how it would/could be done:shrug:

 

[vz71]

I am suggesting we stop both murder in America and unintended death in Iraq. I see both as equally unjust, you seem to argue the unintended death is just.

Not at all. In fact, I have simply asked a series of questions.
How can you tell at all my position with so little information?

I am still trying to figure out how you can equate abortion with unintended death.

We could use our military to end both; one by stopping the unintended deaths in Iraq if we were not there, and if we used the military in America tro stop th emurder of children.

Wait a second…earlier you stated the Mexican military.
When did this leap get made?

Is your fear of terrorists greater than that of an abortionist? The aborted baby doesn’t know if it is Dr. Tiller or bin Laden crushing its skull. The dead child in Iraq doesn’t know if it is Saddams army, the American army, the Sunni, the Shiite when the bullet ends its life.

Then you do equate abortion with accidental death.
How sad.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Not at all. In fact, I have simply asked a series of questions.
How can you tell at all my position with so little information?

your position is clear. Why is not.

I am still trying to figure out how you can equate abortion with unintended death.

The illegal unintended death is the distinction.

Wait a second…earlier you stated the Mexican military.
When did this leap get made?

For those who don’t want to use American forces. I advocate using no military for either. I do not fear the terrorists as you do. I think we could protect ourselves on our own borders and soil. You think we need to fight them before they attack us and think you are killing only them.

Then you do equate abortion with accidental death.
How sad.

You keep trying to put me in your box by not answering all of my questions. Sad is your inability to conclude our foreign policy is in error much like our ‘law’ for abortion.

 

[larsegarots]

Then you do equate abortion with accidental death. How sad.

You are making a straw man out of Verisimilitude’s argument.

 

[estesbob]

You are making a straw man out of Verisimilitude’s argument.

The whole premise of this thread was a monumental strawman.

 

[zjl56]

To do something like this would in itself be a grave sin.

We Catholics have always been wary about war, and the Just War Theory, which in itself is controversial among many of our own circles, would probably go against this. The idea of ending abortion quickly is a noble goal, but at what cost?

If you tried to forcibly end abortion in our polarized society then there’s a great chance for much internal violence. So many hold strong beliefs on the other side, they are probably ready to lay down their lives for against this cause. With so much polarization, the risk for rebellion within our country and the military is too great. Would it be morally justifiable to end the slaughter of innocent Americans if an equal or even greater number of Americans die getting caught up in the ending of it?

 

[vz71]

You are making a straw man out of Verisimilitude’s argument.

I have been trying to determine his position since the beginning.

If this is false, he is free to say so.

I will correct as needed.

 

[vz71]

your position is clear. Why is not.

Please quote the specific posts from me that give you the information you have.
If you cannot, then you are making a monumental leap in your reasoning that is not supported by anything more then your own opinions of others.

The illegal unintended death is the distinction.

illegal unintended death?
That is a new one. Please explain how you can have either a legal or an illegal unintended death.

And also please explain how an accidental death equates to an abortion.

For those who don’t want to use American forces. I advocate using no military for either. I do not fear the terrorists as you do. I think we could protect ourselves on our own borders and soil. You think we need to fight them before they attack us and think you are killing only them.

‘You think…’
Please quote the specific posts that indicate my thoughts as being what you have listed here.

You keep trying to put me in your box by not answering all of my questions. Sad is your inability to conclude our foreign policy is in error much like our ‘law’ for abortion.

You keep running a comparison between the two.
My questions are completely valid.
The lack of direct answer is very telling as well.

I’ll ask again…
Is it your intention to equate the murder of the innocent unborn with an accidental death?