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BlestOne
Guest
This is exactly what I was thinking…if it required a pen too…who has that pen? Pass it this way please!!!
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mlchance
Guest
I regularly make such a vow (of sorts). Every time I attend Mass, I recite the Creed. Those aren’t mere words. They are a public proclamation of fidelity to the Church. Likewise, when both of my children were baptised, I made explicit promises regarding my faithfulness to the Church and her teachings.
– Mark L. Chance.
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Shoshana
Guest
In a heartbeat…the vow would encapsulate my whole Catholicity that I feel so privileged of being part of! :dancing:
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
???
My baptism had nothing to do with a vow of fidelity to the Magisterium.
I voted no. I want to strive for God’s Laws to be written on my heart, not for me to put up a piece of paper.
If you ask me, as they do in our diocese, if I gave a presentation or was involved in teaching in any way, will I vow to uphold the Church teachings? Yes. But this hypothetical situation, if I was asked to sign such a piece of paper or leave the Church, I’d do one of two things.
I’d either sign under protest, and if I was in a particularly foul mood I might even fail to note it and let all believe I Really Signed It – thus formalizing my relationship with the Church as one on paper and not in the blood of the innocent Lamb.
[edit] or I’d leave the Church, but probably not until after my kids are out of Catholic school. They might even join me in leaving, in support for such an unusual and pharasiacal request.
When we take Communion we are transformed into the Body of Christ Himself. I would not dare ask another Christian to sign such a piece of paper in order to stay a member, because what we do to our brothers we do to Christ Himself. I do not wish to ask Christ to prove his fidelity to the Church to me.
Behavior limits, fine. A Catholic may not cause scandal. Vow to mental assent? Never.
Alan
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space_ghost
Guest
…you did the day you were confirmed… you do everytime you recite the creed…
Peace:thumbsup:
http://www.icehouse.net/triplett/sgflying.gif
Peace:thumbsup:
http://www.icehouse.net/triplett/sgflying.gif
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Diaconia
Guest
I would, and in fact have taken such an oath.
Before being promoted to the diaconate, I was required to profess the faith (through the Creed), and make an Oath of Fidelity to the Magisterium, the Deposit of Faith, and all the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I would guess that other deacons & priests have also done thing; but I’m not positive of that fact.
God bless you all for your fidelity to Holy Mother Church!
Before being promoted to the diaconate, I was required to profess the faith (through the Creed), and make an Oath of Fidelity to the Magisterium, the Deposit of Faith, and all the teachings of the Catholic Church.
I would guess that other deacons & priests have also done thing; but I’m not positive of that fact.
God bless you all for your fidelity to Holy Mother Church!
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estesbob
Guest
There is no need to take a vow-fidelity to the Magestrium is a bedrock Doctrine of our Church.This is a question for Catholics only please.
If a vow of fidelity to the Magesterium of the Church were required to be Catholic, would you still be Catholic?
I’m sure this question will somehow be interpreted in a way other than the way I’m meaning it, so based on responses I reserve the right to tweak this question at a later date.
In Christ,
Nancy
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Jaypeeto2
Guest
Of course I would take a vow of fidelity to the Magisterium.
I AM Catholic, after all.
Love, Jaypeeto2
I AM Catholic, after all.
Love, Jaypeeto2
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Bobby_A.Greene
Guest
Theological fidelilty yes, political fidelity, NO.
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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Yes, I know. This was a "what-if-even-though-we-all-know-there-is-no-need-and-it-would-never-ever-happen-in-a-million-bajillion-years kind of question.
There’s the tweak I was predicting needing to make.
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
space ghost:
I disagree. There are plenty of cafeteria/cultural Catholic who recite the creed each week.
In Christ,
Nancy
Hi!
I disagree. There are plenty of cafeteria/cultural Catholic who recite the creed each week.
In Christ,
Nancy
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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
AlanFromWichita said:
Wow! You really misunderstood the spirit of my quesiton!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
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mlchance
Guest
Which has what to do with the nature of the Creed? Which has what to do with my intentions when reciting the Creed?
– Mark L. Chance.
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Donna_P
Guest
I said yes. And every day as my love for my Lord grows stronger - so does my YES!!!
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estesbob
Guest
Bobby A. Greene:
The Church does not ask for political fidelity. However that does not mean that the Church does not have the right to discipline or excommnicate Catholic Politicians who thumb their noses at Catholic Doctrine.
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Bobby_A.Greene
Guest
Or for Catholic politicians to ignore Catholic doctrine when it comes into conflict with the U.S. Constitution.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Maybe I did.Wow! You really misunderstood the spirit of my quesiton!!!
In Christ,
Nancy
I understood that you were asking if I had to sign a vow to remain Catholic, would I do it?
That is so against the teachings of the Church perhaps I guess I didn’t understand where the hypothetical scenario was going. I thought such a document would be troublesome, because it would fly in the face of Church teachings at least for us cradle Catholics, and would be Not Catholic. I guess to me I took it about like “if the Church changed her teachings on transubstantiation, would you still be Catholic?”
To those who took vows to become converts or deacons and all the rest, that’s all great for them. They did not need a vow to “remain” Catholic.
Also I am not unaware that there are a growing number of Catholics who do not understand Catholic teachings in this area, and while claiming Full Assent to the magisterium, they themselves violate the Church teachings by considering those “less devoted” as “non-Catholics” in their hearts, which is divisive, very dangerous to them and the Church – and in fact on these very forums have called, not hypothetically but as a honest attempt at correcting what they apparently think is missing in Church teachings – that all Catholics should be made to sign a pledge to remain Catholic. The goal is to form a smaller, “more unified” Church.
If all you’re asking is, “do you claim to be a Roman Catholic” then I would have answered “yes.” If you’re asking whether I should consider myself Catholic only if I sign a hypothetical document, I know that document would go against Church teachings, and does not come from God so the answer is still “no.”
Maybe the spirit of your question was just to have fun, and I’ve overreacted. Maybe I read divisiveness into your question when you were really trying to promote unity. I’m sorry if that’s the case.
Alan
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Catholic4aReasn
Guest
Nothing. Apparently you aren’t one of the cafeteria/cultural Catholics I was referring to.
In Christ,
Nancy
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estesbob
Guest
Bobby A. Greene:
If a Catholic politiciaqn finds their political beliefs to be in conflict with the doctirnes of the Church they should leave the Church. It has nothing to do with the separation of Church and State nor does it have anything to do with the Church getting involved in politics. If you want to be a Catholic you follow the teachings of the Church. There simply is no other alternative.
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estesbob
Guest
I am not sure what you are getting at here. What teachings are you talking abou?. If you are talking about Church Teachings on abortion, homosexuality, female ordination , euthansia, etc I would say that those who oppose them should be considered as less devoted or non-catholics. Surely you are not of the opinion we can pick and choose which Doctrines we wnat to follow and sttill consider ourlseves Catholic.
I agree, BTW, with Bishop Chaput , that the Church may indeed need to get smaller . The last thing the Church needs to do is water down its teachings and doctrines in the interest of “inclusivness”
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