Wow, good for Katy Perry

[PrayerShark]

So how do you justify the half naked people in the black panties, with the ties to the beds, fitting in with Catholic teachings?

I believe it is intended portray the temptations of the flesh.
Rachel_:

I’m not here to debate you and justify the fact that you agree with sin because it’s a ‘form of expression’. The fact that Lady Gaga went on Larry King Live and made a point to say that this video is her tribute to the gays and the LGBT community says more than what the director’s obvious damage control statement does. Sorry but I stand with the Church teachings on sin & believe sin is sin.

The gay community are her biggest fans and have been the main driving forcing behind her success. You can’t blame her for acknowledging their support and being appreciative of it. I think it is unfair to the director to sit here and trash his work. The director and his team would have put a lot of hard work and thought into what they produced. In my opinion, the video clip does not express sin in a positive light.
Rachel_:

The point of this forum is for Catholics to get to know one another, to help others with questions that may be looking at the Church, to pray for others etc. I’m sure there’s an area somewhere here that is for debate, but I don’t think this would be the spot.

The point of any forum is for discussion of topics; they are not predominantly social networking sites. Yes, for this particular forum it’s core is to do with Catholicism but it has many sub-forums that allow other discourse, of which this is one. I don’t know where else this topic would be more appropriate than Popular Culture.
Rachel_:

I did happen to look at some of your past posts and see that you’re not quite in the Church, I think you worded it ‘in the middle’, raised in two different churches? That would explain your confusion on Church teachings in regard to sin.
If that’s the case, let us know and we’ll be glad to point you to the relevant Church documents

I’m flattered that you took the time to read all my posts. I’m not confused with Catholic teaching on sin, I am well aware of what constitutes a trespass against God and I am also aware of the doctrines. However, like a lot of people on here, I am always questioning and challenging myself on faith. In other words I try to exercise my intellect along with my faith. You may not agree with what I believe, but that is fine. I am just trying to open a broad discussion on blasphemy and art, where we can look at Lady GaGa’s music video and ask the questions about the meaning behind it. There are some positives, there are some negatives. Perhaps the director could have handled his expression for human temptation in a better light. Having her swallow the rosary could have been substituted with a better action, but if such a substitution was made, would the impact be lost? Questions like these.

 

[Melchior_1]

What is getting lost in this thread is that Lady GaGa simply isn’t very talented musically and is merely being manufactured by the pop-culture machine.

 

[Rachel_1]

The gay community are her biggest fans and have been the main driving forcing behind her success. You can’t blame her for acknowledging their support and being appreciative of it.

You’ve managed to twist what I’ve said above or perhaps you misunderstood my point. My point was that I believe that what the director said was nothing more than damage control and that Lady Gaga herself stated what the video was about.

The point of any forum is for discussion of topics; they are not predominantly social networking sites. Yes, for this particular forum it’s core is to do with Catholicism but it has many sub-forums that allow other discourse, of which this is one. I don’t know where else this topic would be more appropriate than Popular Culture.

Again, I think you’ve either twisted what I’ve said, or misunderstood. Of course this topic belongs here, I never said it didn’t. What I said was that I wasn’t going to debate with you, and if you’re looking for a debate (which it appears to me you are) that this area may not be the right place for it. I don’t believe that this initial posting of this thread was with the intent of creating a debate on sin vs ‘performance art’.

I’m flattered that you took the time to read all my posts.

LOL I didn’t read all of your posts. I skimmed your past posts to see if you had discussed your beliefs as I was confused how you could not see the obvious sin in this when you had listed yourself as a Catholic. However, this was my mistake as you’re actually listed as an “Anglo-Catholic”. I realized this after I skimmed your past posts.

I’m not confused with Catholic teaching on sin, I am well aware of what constitutes a trespass against God and I am also aware of the doctrines.

If this is the case, then why are we even having this current discussion? You are well aware of what we, as Roman Catholics, believe constitutes sin within the context of this video. So why are you attempting to make us believe otherwise and go against what our Church teaches?

Also, just to make it clear I’m not a “Lady Gaga hater”. I actually used to listen to her music all the time… as a matter of fact the song Paparazzi had a special meaning to me for a bit.
I realized however in the last 9 months that her music wasn’t bringing me closer to God. I chose to make a radical change in my life and realized that the ultimate goal of life (at least mine) is to live for God and do things that bring me closer to how Jesus would have me be… listening to Poker Face wasn’t doing that for me. So I stopped.
Her music is catchy, it sticks in your head… she’s got good marketing (shock value) but does her blasphemy make it right? No.
She’s sold out. She knows the truth, but she’s sold out and become (in her own words) “plastic”. It’s sad really.
With that, I’ll say goodnight.

 

[ManOnFire]

I don’t see why they can’t be controversial and make a financial gain at the same time. Music artists, directors, publishers need to make a living somehow.

This is quite funny. They have so much excess. Cocaine and heroin parties. Lavish foods. As long as they can make a high income by selling out our values, tempting men into excessive lust, destroying family relationships, they will keep doing it as long as we keep buying it. Some people will rationalize any behavior as long as the music and movies romances them into “feeling good.”

 

[CatholicFireman]

Perhaps you could elaborate on your previous statement then?

Not worth my time, brother. And neither is that “singer’s” “talent”.

Peace.

 

[Charlotte408]

Aw man you guys beat me to the punch!!!

This is great! I love it!! I had to go and look up lady gaga’s video ‘Alejandro’ to know what she was talking about, and quite frankly, I can’t post it here.

Its borderline porn complete with men in chonies and high heels grinding eachother on beds…Gaga with an upside down cross on her crotch and eating rosaries. ITS THAT BAD. You can say shes another Madonna, but IMHO Madonna wasn’t nearly as bad, and one could argue that they are BOTH wrong…It brought a huge smile to my face when I heard someone finally called an artist out on it. This is good for two reasons.

1. It shows that you CAN be a Christian, without being a PRUDE- and be successful. Perry’s a little ‘riskay’, but she’s never presented herself (from what I’ve seen) in a terrible manner…she reminds me of myself…just a lot of fun. She’s got morals and values, and can keep em’ all together even after a few mai tai’s.

and 2. It shows that you can be riskay, and still know where to draw the line, and have respect even for other’s…Perry is evangelical…from my understanding they don’t believe in the Rosary…yet she still would stand up for our faith and the defamation of it. Frekn Right On Girl…

Just gotta end it on this note:

CaLiFoRNiA GiRLs

-wait, what?? who’s she singin’ about?? Oh yeah thats right CA and its summer so we in full effect!!! ((Now I’m jammin’ over here at 6 am today’s gonna be a good day))

♫♪♫CuZ NoThiN CoMeS cLOsE tO ThE GoLDeN CoOoAsT!!♫♪♫ :dancing:

 

[Charlotte408]

It can be justified in terms of its context. It is when we take art out of context that it becomes blasphemous. You are going to have to do better than just say this is blasphemous without giving me the reason why.

I’ll start with her sucking on a rosary in a sexually explicit manner…

 

[Charlotte408]

That’s what I’ve been trying to do. I think it is rash for everyone to quickly condemn without considering what you are condemning first. **The point of the video, nay the story it tells, is one of a woman choosing a life of prayer and connection with the Holy spirit over the temptations of evil offered by the world. **As Catholics, is this not a good message?

Oh wow. Seriously?!? LMBO- you got a ‘moral story’ from all that??? LOL…twisted.

 

[mmm1]

Prayer Shark, I admire your enthusiasm & affinity for art, but I think many of us just think it is misplaced or wasted in this case. I watched the video yesterday & did not see any art or depth.

In the sense that art is supposed to make you feel something, it was successful. I felt sad for the people in the video, yet very angry about all of the young people that would be corrupted by this video. I’m not buying the director’s vision. I daresay the vast majority of young people watching missed the thematic elements of a spiritual battle. They weren’t discussing good & evil on the message board that I saw & no one discussed those themes, or even art. All of the players in the video seemed very happy with the idea of evil & I saw not one shred of goodness.

I utterly missed her “withdrawing from the world of evil & going inward towards prayer & contemplation.” I read the director’s take on it before watching, & still didn’t sense the contemplative prayer. The red nun’s dress & the eyes burning out at the end just didn’t cut it, couldn’t erase the scenes that were unfortunately seered into my consciousness. I know I am provincial & missed the point, but I am ok with that.

 

[child_of_God85]

Aw man you guys beat me to the punch!!!

This is great! I love it!! I had to go and look up lady gaga’s video ‘Alejandro’ to know what she was talking about, and quite frankly, I can’t post it here.

Its borderline porn complete with men in chonies and high heels grinding eachother on beds…Gaga with an upside down cross on her crotch and eating rosaries. ITS THAT BAD. You can say shes another Madonna, but IMHO Madonna wasn’t nearly as bad, and one could argue that they are BOTH wrong…It brought a huge smile to my face when I heard someone finally called an artist out on it. This is good for two reasons.

1. It shows that you CAN be a Christian, without being a PRUDE- and be successful. Perry’s a little ‘riskay’, but she’s never presented herself (from what I’ve seen) in a terrible manner…she reminds me of myself…just a lot of fun. She’s got morals and values, and can keep em’ all together even after a few mai tai’s.

and 2. It shows that you can be riskay, and still know where to draw the line, and have respect even for other’s…Perry is evangelical…from my understanding they don’t believe in the Rosary…yet she still would stand up for our faith and the defamation of it. Frekn Right On Girl…

Just gotta end it on this note:

CaLiFoRNiA GiRLs

-wait, what?? who’s she singin’ about?? Oh yeah thats right CA and its summer so we in full effect!!! ((Now I’m jammin’ over here at 6 am today’s gonna be a good day))

♫♪♫CuZ NoThiN CoMeS cLOsE tO ThE GoLDeN CoOoAsT!!♫♪♫ :dancing:

I completely agree! I like that even though Katy Perry isn’t catholic, she came out in defence of it. I love her for that! She also knows that more people in Hollywood will take Lady Gaga’s side and not hers, and yet she still did the right thing.
Katy Perry is talented and original. Lady Gaga is neither of those.
The first time I heard Lady GaGa the first thing that came to mind was that she was trying to copy Gwen Stefani’s way of singing. And when I watched this last video of hers I was saying to myself that she looked just like Madonna. Nothing original there.

 

[cradlecatholic5]

*What is getting lost in this thread is that Lady GaGa simply isn’t very talented musically and is merely being manufactured by the pop-culture machine. *

Amen to that statement! I believe it’s been the most honest statement in this thread.

 

[PrayerShark]

I wouldn’t hold Katy Perry up as talented artist either. At least Lady GaGa writes her own music…anyway.

mmm1:

Prayer Shark, I admire your enthusiasm & affinity for art, but I think many of us just think it is misplaced or wasted in this case. I watched the video yesterday & did not see any art or depth.

In the sense that art is supposed to make you feel something, it was successful. I felt sad for the people in the video, yet very angry about all of the young people that would be corrupted by this video. I’m not buying the director’s vision. I daresay the vast majority of young people watching missed the thematic elements of a spiritual battle. They weren’t discussing good & evil on the message board that I saw & no one discussed those themes, or even art. All of the players in the video seemed very happy with the idea of evil & I saw not one shred of goodness.

I utterly missed her “withdrawing from the world of evil & going inward towards prayer & contemplation.” I read the director’s take on it before watching, & still didn’t sense the contemplative prayer. The red nun’s dress & the eyes burning out at the end just didn’t cut it, couldn’t erase the scenes that were unfortunately seered into my consciousness. I know I am provincial & missed the point, but I am ok with that.

Finally! A correspondence with the point I was trying to make (which I seem to have done rather unsuccessfully). What I’ve been ranting on about is that while the direction of art in this instance has failed, it did have a story to tell. What I wanted to hear from people was their opinion on the connection between story’s synopsis and what we ended up with visually. I never said I liked the video, half of it I don’t get; especially the German military reference. But I was trying to push for a more open consideration of what we were being presented.

 

[Charlotte408]

gives a grouchy old lady sigh

hmph…

Well I guess I’m just not deep enough for ‘Gaga’ because I didn’t see any kind of story I only saw filth. I just couldn’t get beyond it. Didn’t care to bother, either…

You know whats funny to me? Is…I’m 28. Still young…and I’ve always been VERY open minded. Listen to different kinds of music, have different kinds of friends…I live in the bay area which is SO diverse. I used to live a different kind of lifestyle to where I would have noticed, but not worried too much about it…but its like, every generation…they push it a little further, and then if they get away with it, they push it twice as far…

I know my generation was bad, man, no doubt…but I look at the generation following mine and think oh my…gawd what’s going on in these kids heads?? And I’m still so young theres not this HUGE gap, but they are SO far off, so detached…its like they dont even NOTICE the garbage, they just accept it as is…I just cant believe, sometimes, that **I **am the one taking the ‘conservative’ stance or whatever…trip out.

shakes head kids these days…

 

[child_of_God85]

I know! Thank God I grew up in the time of boybands and pop princesses! I’m 24 and cannot believe the stuff youngs kinds listen to these days, it’s very sad

 

[Charlotte408]

Hey C of G…

You probably heard this song before…but I just looked it up to post it to my facebook…and the ‘storyline’ of the video is sooooo prettyyyyy omgawwwwsh…I LOVE it…

Check it out:

youtube.com/watch?v=HhuGQUZJot8

Beautiful. Probably my favorite song right now…

 

[mmm1]

I wouldn’t hold Katy Perry up as talented artist either. At least Lady GaGa writes her own music…anyway.

Finally! A correspondence with the point I was trying to make (which I seem to have done rather unsuccessfully). What I’ve been ranting on about is that while the direction of art in this instance has failed, it did have a story to tell. What I wanted to hear from people was their opinion on the connection between story’s synopsis and what we ended up with visually. I never said I liked the video, half of it I don’t get; especially the German military reference. But I was trying to push for a more open consideration of what we were being presented.

I see, I guess I wasn’t sure if you liked the video or just wanted to discuss it & kind of play devil’s advocate for the director or something.

As a Catholic & a Mom I really did not like this video. I was surprised to see the director’s take on it & that he would discuss things like ‘withdrawing from the world & prayer & contemplation’. I’m confused because I didn’t see that in the video. I don’t know if the director just has completely different views on that, but part of me is suspicious of his motives & I just don’t believe him. I don’t really get it though, because he didn’t have to go so far as to say those things about it. Most in the music industry don’t try to portray their work in those terms. MTV would show the video even if he didn’t describe it as a spiritual battle between good & evil.

Maybe they expected outrage & charges of anti-Catholic bigotry, & he is just trying to deflect some of that. I don’t know, but I just don’t buy his vision. I do think art can be so offensive that most don’t consider it art.

 

[CatholicFireman]

I see, I guess I wasn’t sure if you liked the video or just wanted to discuss it & kind of play devil’s advocate for the director or something.

As a Catholic & a Mom I really did not like this video. I was surprised to see the director’s take on it & that he would discuss things like ‘withdrawing from the world & prayer & contemplation’. I’m confused because I didn’t see that in the video. I don’t know if the director just has completely different views on that, but part of me is suspicious of his motives & I just don’t believe him. I don’t really get it though, because he didn’t have to go so far as to say those things about it. Most in the music industry don’t try to portray their work in those terms. MTV would show the video even if he didn’t describe it as a spiritual battle between good & evil.

Maybe they expected outrage & charges of anti-Catholic bigotry, & he is just trying to deflect some of that. I don’t know, but I just don’t buy his vision. I do think art can be so offensive that most don’t consider it art.

Nicely said.

 

[mmm1]

Nicely said.

Hey, thanks… Are you a firefighter in real life, too? Not to go off topic, but I think that’s awesome & thanks for your service!..

 

[CatholicFireman]

Hey, thanks… Are you a firefighter in real life, too? Not to go off topic, but I think that’s awesome & thanks for your service!..

Yep. And thank you. I left you a message on your page so we won’t go off topic.

 

[mmm1]

I wouldn’t hold Katy Perry up as talented artist either. At least Lady GaGa writes her own music…anyway.

I never said I liked the video, half of it I don’t get; especially the German military reference. But I was trying to push for a more open consideration of what we were being presented.

In all honesty, I should point out that I didn’t even pick up on a German military reference, & probably many other things. A casual glimpse of the cavorting going on & the strategic placement of crucifixes made my bloodpressure skyrocket. I think something we are dealing with here is that some of us have seen this type of thing so much, & worry about what we think is spiritually toxic for young people’s souls, that we get mad… I think even many parents that are completely secular would be concerned with this…