Wow..... I can only hope this isn’t true

[Fuerza]

Unless I’m missing something this comment doesn’t seem related to the thread, but I think that this is where we’re supposed to point out that Vatican II never abolished Latin, and actually called for it to be retained. Being a traditionalist, liking the Latin Mass, and liking VII are not contradictory.

By the way, this traditionalist is not really bothered by the idea of a married priesthood, with perhaps some administrative restrictions (ex. only celibates can be pastors, etc.).

 

[Crocus]

not really bothered by the idea of a married priesthood, with perhaps some administrative restrictions (ex. only celibates can be pastors, etc.).

If only celibates (in your administrative scenario) can be pastors, what role would you propose for the married priesthood? Isn’t the shortage of priests in the Amazon the reason that a married priesthood is being considered?

 

[DeniseNY]

Only if you think that the Catholic Church means the Roman rite

Thank you for saying this.

 

[C.Ray]

There are already married priests

If there are married priests, can we really say celibacy is an actual discipline? And if some priests can be married without causing the Sistine ceiling to fall, why shouldn’t all priests be allowed to marry?

 

[Emeraldlady]

TheLittleLady:

There are already married priests

If there are married priests, can we really say celibacy is an actual discipline? And if some priests can be married without causing the Sistine ceiling to fall, why shouldn’t all priests be allowed to marry?

The needs of the flock dictate these things and the Pope and Bishops in charge of meeting the flocks needs assess what’s best. Another example is that technically and theologically it is possible that women can be cardinals because cardinal is the only role not requiring the holder to be ordained. As yet we are obviously not ready for such a situation though.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

If there are married priests, can we really say celibacy is an actual discipline?

Yes.

And if some priests can be married without causing the Sistine ceiling to fall, why shouldn’t all priests be allowed to marry?

The church may see fit to change its discipline, but even then priestly celibacy will likely continue to exist. In the East, there are still many celibate priests even though married men can be ordained. (Note that that marriage happens before ordination.)

 

[TheLittleLady]

Married men may be ordained. They cannot re-marry if widowed or divorced.

Ordained men may not marry.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Having the eyes of many heterosexual married men on the clergy in general, working beside them, could have acted as a strong disinfectant.

Traditionally, married men have tended to be heterosexual in overwhelming percentages, and they tend to be able to intuit whether a man in their midst is gay or not — “gaydar” is the slang term. The sexual abuse of recent years has tended more often than not to be perpetrated against boys and young men. Even where it has been heterosexual abuse — and I saw a case of this before my very eyes, in the parish where I was living at the time — “something just didn’t look right”, things didn’t add up, and sure enough, it was just as bad, if not worse, than I thought. It eventually ended up with the courts and law enforcement involved, splashed all over the evening TV news. Where it is a case of many celibate men all together, some gay, some not, some (I would hope a very few) abusers, some (I would hope the vast majority) not, living at a certain distance apart from the secular world, with no wives around, no children around, I think such secrets can be more easily kept.

Beyond this, I am deliberately not getting into percentages, or questions of “few/many/most”, because I realize that has caused some controversy on these forums, to the effect of “have you interviewed everyone involved?”. The film Spotlight, which if you haven’t seen it, you should, dealt with percentages that tended to hold up pretty well under scrutiny, so I’ll let that be their bailiwick, not mine.

Another example is that technically and theologically it is possible that women can be cardinals because cardinal is the only role not requiring the holder to be ordained. As yet we are obviously not ready for such a situation though.

I would be totally OK with women cardinals.

Let me be as clear as it is possible to be, that I absolutely do not advocate women’s ordination. Before I could even get behind women as deaconesses, I would have to see something very, very persuasive from both a historical and theological point of view.

 

[twf]

Celibacy won’t be abolished. Even if everything else is true, the headline is misleading at best. There will always be, if nothing else, celibate religious. In the East there have always been married priests…yet the gift of celibacy thrives among the monastics.

 

[BlueMaxx]

claiming, based on (unseen) documents he has received from (unidentified) “several bishops,” that Pope Francis’ post-synodal exhortation on the Amazon Synod will open the door to abolishing priestly celibacy in the Latin church.

Meh…sounds like sensationalist yellow journalism at its best…

 

[Fuerza]

I would envision them in more of an auxiliary role, assisting at parishes throughout a given diocese rather than just administering to one. They could, for example, be available a certain number of hours per week for confessions and offer extra Masses on weekends where there was a need. They could also fill in for other priests who were sick or on vacation. Of course situations like the Amazon May call for exceptions, but I think even that would be workable in my scenario.

I’m just musing. I am not a priest and certainly don’t have all the answers, but I think this is more realistic. I know that EC parishes often have married pastors, as do Ordinariate parishes. That may work well for them, but they tend to be smaller than many typical RC parishes. How does a married man with a family make himself fully available to his parishioners and handle all the administrative responsibilities of a parish with thousands of members, while at the same time fulfilling his marital and parental obligations?

 

[InThePew]

The problem with LifeSite news isn’t so much that they don’t report the fact but more that the present them in a sensationalist way that obscures the facts. This is what the paragraph from the Synod’s Final Document says:

we propose that criteria and dispositions be established by the competent authority, within the framework of Lumen Gentium 26, to ordain as priests suitable and respected men of the community with a legitimately constituted and stable family

This is of course very different to wholesale abolition of the doctrine of celibacy but you have to scroll right to the bottom of the article to find this paragraph. Pope Francis forthcoming exhortation may well open the door in this way (and not necessarily exclusively for the Amazon) but, as with most things in the Church, it will take time. Laws, guidelines, processes will all have to be formulated. Still, I see this as a non-issue simply because I don’t expect huge numbers of bishops wanting to ordain married men.

Putting aside the fact the not all dioceses have deacons (and of course the need for their wives to consent), it’s all well and good advocating for change but actually figuring out how it’s supposed to work in reality is a whole other ballgame! mho the best arguments are pragmatic - we’ve had an almost exclusively celibate clergy for something like 900 years. Our whole way of doing ministry is predicated upon celibate priests. Sure we can cope with the odd exception but not wholesale change, so why buy trouble

 

[PennyinCanada]

Regardless of what happens in the Church, I will keep going on about what’s mine to do. Keep your head down and keep moving forward until the Lord calls you home. You and I can only control very little.

Matthew 14:29-31 New International Version (NIV)

29 “Come,” he said.

Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. 30 But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

31 Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. “You of little faith,” he said, “why did you doubt?”

 

[Mark121359]

You don’t have to like it, but calling him a heretic is out of bounds.

Please point to the post where the Pope was called a heretic. I must have missed it.

 

[ontheway1]

All the supporters of the pope also support the following:

1. He never said that priests could marry. The news source can’t be trusted
   or
2. There are married priests all over the place and there is no problem with the pope.
   or
   3, Celibacy is not part of apostolic tradition. Who made it up anyway? The pope can do no wrong.

Overall, papal infallibility is extended to ANYTHING the pope says.

There are a few inconsistencies in these lines of argumentation.

Just saying…

 

[CradleRC58]

It doesn’t matter to me one way or another.

With a shortage of priests, perhaps it’s time to allow it.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

They’re the #1 pro-life website in the world. In all the time I’ve been reading their articles, they only had to issue one (1) retraction. LSN will not publish anything unless it’s credibly substantiated. I love LSN as well as CAF, so it really irks me when people bash them.

 

[Mrchatsworth]

Let’s hope this isn’t credible. Lifesite speaks to faithful Catholics and can be very biased and inciting. But the Church is in a free fall in some areas and this could be true. It would further fracture an already strained Church.

We will know soon enough

 

[Margaret_Ann]

I beg to differ.

 

[dochawk]

Before I could even get behind women as deaconesses, I would have to see something very, very persuasive from both a historical and theological point of view.

Oh, that is there. There are both EC and EO churches that still have them (as opposed to having created them).

The confusion comes from those trying to claim that they are ordained, and that they are female deacons . . .