Writing fiction: Using swear words?

[InJesusItrust]

My characters are teenagers. And yes, my character does mature overtime, if the direction I am going is correct.

I just can’t do outlines, and this is my first draft.

 

[Viki63]

It’s pretty good for a first draft.
I would encourage you to work on writing outlines. It’s no big deal, just jotting down notes on which direction your story will go. Like:
they meet
they argue
they separate
he is sorry and apologizes
they get back together.

It helps keep my stories on track.

 

[InJesusItrust]

The best literature contains no swear words.

Step back from the narrow question of how this scene should play, and first decide whether you want to be a popular writer or a good writer. Why do you even want to write about characters that seem trite and superficial? That is why you need the swear words (in this instance), your characters are shallow.

I’m surprised at the excuse making on here. Swearing is never necessary if you know how to write. You can convey the entire meaning and feeling without the words in question.

I think you have quite a way to go as a writer, and that is the real issue.

Why are these categories mutual exclusive? I am not trying to win an award for artsy prose, but to write something that moves people.

 

[Kamaduck]

I worry about this when writing, mostly because I like to write about teenagers. I don’t like profanity/vulgarity, and I don’t want people to get used to those words more than they already are (or get myself used to them). However, I also want to portray realistic (OK, semi-realistic ) characters.

The story I’m writing now has some teens in it who want to be taken seriously by adults, so they rarely use any bad words unless they’re extremely upset (which will happen over the course of the story). There is one character who will probably never use anything close to a bad word, because she hates them. There’s also one character who is always sarcastic and peppers her speech with expletives whenever she’s upset, and often when she’s not. In her case, it’s because she’s essentially been raised by soldiers and has little sense of decorum. The character does have many redeeming traits, and I actually like her a lot. I just think a coarser vocabulary is necessary to convey who she is.

So I don’t think writing bad words is always a sin. Like violence, it depends how it’s handled. I would caution you that too much strong language will scare off some readers, though. I once found an interesting-looking science fiction book I wanted to read, but I couldn’t do it on account of how much swearing there was per page.

If it’s done for characterization and not excessive, I think it’s OK.

 

[edwest2]

Like violence? No comparison. There’s decades of great literature out there with zero profanity. I would NEVER try to convince any writer to use profanity for any reason. It’s wrong. It sets a bad example. And it’s un-Christian. Growing up, I was told to avoid any profanity. That still applies today.

Peace,
Ed

 

[InJesusItrust]

Decided that this is the sin of scandal. Will try something else.

 

[Kamaduck]

Like violence? No comparison. There’s decades of great literature out there with zero profanity. I would NEVER try to convince any writer to use profanity for any reason. It’s wrong. It sets a bad example. And it’s un-Christian. Growing up, I was told to avoid any profanity. That still applies today.

But when those stories were written, people didn’t use so much of it in everyday speech, right? (Plus, there’s also lots of great literature that DOES contain profanity. Example: most Shakespeare.)

I agree that using profanity is wrong/disrespectful in real life. (At least in my life… my mom wouldn’t stand for it. Not sure about all cases, though, just my own.) I also think that writing about people who never sin leads to a very dull story. I avoid profanity when possible, but I don’t have coarser characters speak like polite, well-educated angels. I do impose limits, though.

I’m not really advising people to use it, anyway. I’m advising them to think hard about what they want to communicate before doing so.

Decided that this is the sin of scandal. Will try something else.

Fine decision- it’s important not to violate your conscience. Good luck with your story.

 

[Portrait]

But when those stories were written, people didn’t use so much of it in everyday speech, right? (Plus, there’s also lots of great literature that DOES contain profanity. Example: most Shakespeare.)

I agree that using profanity is wrong/disrespectful in real life. (At least in my life… my mom wouldn’t stand for it. Not sure about all cases, though, just my own.) I also think that writing about people who never sin leads to a very dull story. I avoid profanity when possible, but I don’t have coarser characters speak like polite, well-educated angels. I do impose limits, though.

Dear Kamaduck,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well.

Your opening sentence, dear friend, is bang on target and draws attention to a most important fact which we should not overlook. Prior to the Sixties permissive revolution ventures into profanity would not have been tolerated in fiction as they are now in our post-Christian culture, because a robust Christian consciousness still exerted a considerable influence. An unspoken etiquette emanated from this Christian consciousness and spread among the bulk of the population, greatly helping to discourage and deter the writing of culturally unhealthy reading material, including the use of profanity. A more God-fearing society would have been quite rightly shocked and offended by bad language, but sadly in our contemporary irreligious culture its common usage ensures that men are no longer shocked or offended. It is called desensitization and it is something which ought to cause us deep disquietude.

It is perfectly permissible, dear friend, to write novels in which men transgress and most fiction managed to acheive this before the Sixties, without having to resort to the use of bad or obscene language. Moreover, those novels were anything but dull or filled with cardboard characters, as the literary classics exemplify. Unfortunately, the post-Christian world-view has operated to convince the public that there are no boundaries of good taste and decency which cannot be crossed in the name of ‘art’ or realistic thrilling fiction. People have, since the Sixties, been gradually bamboozled into the acceptance of profanity and obscenity, all in the name of lending an air of reality to a particular work of fiction. However, all of this is indicative of the demoralizing influence of our godless world and its unhappy impact upon the arts and literature. We are not the better for this and who can deny that the reading public’s moral sensibilites have been dulled and blunted as a result.

Even within the world of fiction writing, dear friend, profanity can never be morally permissible because it simply does not comport with the Christian standard of language - “Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt…” (Col. 4: 6), and by reasonable extention that can equally be applied to writing also. The gift of language was given to mankind by God and it should be used positively and never in an unsavoury manner. Bad language, spoken or written, is not only negative, vulgar, impolite and downright offensive, but it also debases the dignity of each human being. Moreover, cursing and swearing is not only a plain evidence of man’s fallen estate and his want of respect for others, but also his own immaturity and insecurity in his dealings with his fellow men. It is also not infrequently an expression of sinful anger and impatience.

Such was the influence of the Christian consciousness, that swearing and foul language do not actually figure largely in the great literary classics that we all know and love. This was the case with Charles Dickens, for example, who avoided such debased language since he was sensitive to accusations of coarseness in his novels, prefering instead divers Victorian euphemisims. If only modern authors and film makers would use such euphemisms, for this would surely help to raise the tone of film/fiction and perhaps even foster the use of a more decorous public discourse. As in so many other areas of life, there is a lowered public opinion that urgently needs to be raised and ennobled (cf. Phillip. 4: 8).

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Jaysuitical]

Your opening sentence, dear friend, is bang on target and draws attention to a most important fact which we should not overlook. Prior to the Sixties permissive revolution ventures into profanity would not have been tolerated in fiction as they are now in our post-Christian culture, because a robust Christian consciousness still exerted a considerable influence.

Pax

As Cole Porter wrote in the '20s

Writers who once knew better words
Now only use four-letter words
Writing prose
Anything goes
*Ulysses* was allowed to circulate in the US by a 1933 court decision on obscenity in literature. As a used book dealer, I was amused to come across a copy of Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" recently used by a high school student with all the profanity scratched out & the student noting "He's taking the Lord's name in vain, WTF?" apparently not knowing what "WTF" meant. So the assertion that these became acceptable only after the '60s is false. Profanity really became integral to daily life in a very common way after the '80s, when f-bombs and the like were still fairly shocking to hear in daily language.

 

[Bill_Dodds]

In my novels for adults (not to be confused with “adult novels” – yikes!) my characters sometimes do things and say things I would never do or say. But, being true to that character, he or she would. (None in my novels for children.)

Even so . . .

They do it without going into detail and it’s not to sell the book. (No pornography thinly disguised as “just a novel.”) And they say it infrequently. A “hll" or "dmn” or such. Nothing sexual or scatalogical. (Well, maybe “poop.”) (IFor example, a “Go to h*ll!” early in the first chapter of “The World’s Funniest Atheist.” You can see what I mean here.

If you’re a fiction writer, it’s good to remember you don’t have to say what the characer said, just say – for example – he “cursed with great creativity” or “swore softly.” (Louis L’Anour was very good at that.)

But as to actually committing a sin? For you? Can’t say. For me. No.

 

[Kamaduck]

Even within the world of fiction writing, dear friend, profanity can never be morally permissible because it simply does not comport with the Christian standard of language - “Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt…” (Col. 4: 6), and by reasonable extention that can equally be applied to writing also. The gift of language was given to mankind by God and it should be used positively and never in an unsavoury manner. Bad language, spoken or written, is not only negative, vulgar, impolite and downright offensive, but it also debases the dignity of each human being. Moreover, cursing and swearing is not only a plain evidence of man’s fallen estate and his want of respect for others, but also his own immaturity and insecurity in his dealings with his fellow men. It is also not infrequently an expression of sinful anger and impatience.

The thing is, if you use swear words when writing a polished work of fiction, it’s not because you’re angry. It’s because your character is angry, and you want to make that clear.

I am certainly not going to write a book where everyone is always polite, even though I think people should be polite. I will allow my characters to use language in an “unsavory” manner, because human interactions are not always positive or uplifting. I’m not going to ignore those moments.

The question then becomes whether one is going to say “he cursed” every time, which greatly diminishes a character’s voice and makes it easy to ignore their feelings, or whether you’re going to let them use some words you wouldn’t use in real life. I don’t use just one tactic or the other, but if what a character is saying is important, I’m going to let them say it- on their terms.

I still think it’s best to avoid it whenever you can, but I don’t think it’s always wrong, either.

If you’re a fiction writer, it’s good to remember you don’t have to say what the characer said, just say – for example – he “cursed with great creativity” or “swore softly.” (Louis L’Anour was very good at that.)

This does work a lot of the time, but in some cases it messes up the tone of what you’re writing. I use a lot of “she cursed” when writing one of my characters, but when she’s in the middle of an argument with someone, it doesn’t work very well.

I also would agree swearing has no place in children’s books.

 

[Michael19682]

In a story I am writing my characters sometimes use bad words but not to excess. Is it a venial sin to write the story?

Job’s wife advised him to curse life and get it over with–so it depends on the kind of bad words and what they mean.
Funny, I don’t use curse words in mine and I would never judge an author who did in the way you say. And, if my characters are married, allusions to love making only – usually accomplished by using antiquated terms for intimacy, or ones found in the Bible.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Like violence? No comparison. There’s decades of great literature out there with zero profanity. I would NEVER try to convince any writer to use profanity for any reason. It’s wrong. It sets a bad example. And it’s un-Christian. Growing up, I was told to avoid any profanity. That still applies today.

Peace,
Ed

Why are bad words more offensive than violence?

 

[edwest2]

Dear Kamaduck,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hope all is well.

Your opening sentence, dear friend, is bang on target and draws attention to a most important fact which we should not overlook. Prior to the Sixties permissive revolution ventures into profanity would not have been tolerated in fiction as they are now in our post-Christian culture, because a robust Christian consciousness still exerted a considerable influence. An unspoken etiquette emanated from this Christian consciousness and spread among the bulk of the population, greatly helping to discourage and deter the writing of culturally unhealthy reading material, including the use of profanity. A more God-fearing society would have been quite rightly shocked and offended by bad language, but sadly in our contemporary irreligious culture its common usage ensures that men are no longer shocked or offended. It is called desensitization and it is something which ought to cause us deep disquietude.

It is perfectly permissible, dear friend, to write novels in which men transgress and most fiction managed to acheive this before the Sixties, without having to resort to the use of bad or obscene language. Moreover, those novels were anything but dull or filled with cardboard characters, as the literary classics exemplify. Unfortunately, the post-Christian world-view has operated to convince the public that there are no boundaries of good taste and decency which cannot be crossed in the name of ‘art’ or realistic thrilling fiction. People have, since the Sixties, been gradually bamboozled into the acceptance of profanity and obscenity, all in the name of lending an air of reality to a particular work of fiction. However, all of this is indicative of the demoralizing influence of our godless world and its unhappy impact upon the arts and literature. We are not the better for this and who can deny that the reading public’s moral sensibilites have been dulled and blunted as a result.

Even within the world of fiction writing, dear friend, profanity can never be morally permissible because it simply does not comport with the Christian standard of language - “Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt…” (Col. 4: 6), and by reasonable extention that can equally be applied to writing also. The gift of language was given to mankind by God and it should be used positively and never in an unsavoury manner. Bad language, spoken or written, is not only negative, vulgar, impolite and downright offensive, but it also debases the dignity of each human being. Moreover, cursing and swearing is not only a plain evidence of man’s fallen estate and his want of respect for others, but also his own immaturity and insecurity in his dealings with his fellow men. It is also not infrequently an expression of sinful anger and impatience.

Such was the influence of the Christian consciousness, that swearing and foul language do not actually figure largely in the great literary classics that we all know and love. This was the case with Charles Dickens, for example, who avoided such debased language since he was sensitive to accusations of coarseness in his novels, prefering instead divers Victorian euphemisims. If only modern authors and film makers would use such euphemisms, for this would surely help to raise the tone of film/fiction and perhaps even foster the use of a more decorous public discourse. As in so many other areas of life, there is a lowered public opinion that urgently needs to be raised and ennobled (cf. Phillip. 4: 8).

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Dear Portrait,

I lived through a period of time where respect for one’s character and reputation were both of great value. Where gossip, profanity and foul and explicit references were simply taught as wrong, and reinforced by those around you. This generally harmonious community attitude that was shaped from childhood resulted in intelligent, fun-loving adults who read the great writers and avoided the profane, because it could cause scandal to you, and your family. Your ‘good name’ was a treasure.

Since the late 1960s, I heard artists and writers clamor for more freedom. What sort of freedom? The graphic profanity of Chris Rock, books about pimps and whores, and the thinly veiled perversions given the nonsense name ‘erotica?’ The pointless graphic violence of Saving Private Ryan? No one who has been shot at or had a gun pressed against his head, as I have, not knowing if I was going to live or die, gains nothing by seeing it in a movie or written in a book. Having worked at a hospital, I was there in the ER with a man who was brought in with a shotgun wound. Fortunately, for him, the pellets had not penetrated too deeply or struck his heart.

Realism? Authenticity? I watched as movies sunk lower into degeneracy. Where heroes became vigilantes, then anti-heroes, then an undefined character who barely knew right and wrong. Darkness settled over too much written fiction. The word dark appeared in too many places. The walking dead is so not heart-warming or frightening anymore.

There is a glut of bad books because people have been brainwashed to believe in a fake freedom that can only continue to go downward.

Instead of enobling men, they are de-enobling men. Literally inviting people to roll in the filth and excrement and darkness. And they drape all of this in the ridiculous comment that it’s “art.” That the moment it appears in print or in digital form, our critical faculties cannot criticize it for some have been brainwashed, and teach others, that “art” is untouchable, inviolate and even ‘sacred’ in a purely irrational way. To say “it’s art” excuses nothing.

Thank you, dear brother, for those wonderful and apropos comments. I pray some writers take your words to heart.

Warmest best wishes,

Ed

 

[RPRPsych]

As someone who’s done, and is currently doing, quite a bit of writing for leisure, this is an interesting point.

Quite frankly, I’d say that in my own opinion, it’s not really necessary, and it can detract from the quality of what would otherwise be a story. Think of all the great novels and stories that have been written, then and now, without recourse to swearing.

I understand that verisimilitude can be a concern (when representing contemporary teen culture, for example), but the solution ought to be a more positive portrayal, rather than dwelling on the more unsavoury aspects of contemporary language and its usage.

The first novel I ever wrote (it was pretty dreadful, though; I was 17 or 18 at the time) ran to over 1,40,000 words, and didn’t use any overt profanity (there may have been some "damn"s here and there, but that’s it), and even now, I try to steer clear. There can always be examples on the borderline (the third chapter of my current story has one questionable usage, but as later events will make clear, the term in question is not used as a swear word), but gratuitous profanity should be avoided.

Of course, the target audience is also important. If you’re writing a story aimed at children or youth, you’d have to be doubly careful about what you use.

 

[edwest2]

Why are bad words more offensive than violence?

The term “bad words” sums it up. They are bad for a reason and writers gave us decades of entertainment without using them.

As a professional who sees a lot of manuscripts, each is its own case regarding how violence is portrayed. Sadly, those who consider themselves modern imitate what’s being fed into them. This is done on purpose in most cases. The desensitization of Western culture did not happen overnight. The poison was put into our veins, drop by drop, over a 40 year period. I, and others, watched it happen. Gradually, the mix of good and bad was in favor of the good, then it went to 50/50, and then the bad outnumbered the good a little, then a little more and then a little more. Until we have young writers who know nothing else as normative.

Now that the good has been paved over in people’s minds, I watch as they scramble to write things that must not read like the ‘old stuff.’ So, what is new? More heartless, graphic killing? Children spewing profanity? I’ve seen a literal ton of manuscripts and I watch the fiction coming out. And when good is passé, your only choice is the deep, dark, filthy, lurid, crude and graphic. Man as intelligent? No - man at his worst. So let’s just write more and more stories where everyone, even kids, spews profanity. Let’s make it normative. Let’s lead by bad example.

THAT IS WRONG. There is no excuse for it. God-willing, the company I work for will continue to produce writing for families, not those who want to promote every evil, degenerate and perverse idea they can imagine.

IT IS SCANDALIZING ALL who read it.

As a reader, I am scandalized and the ‘good name’ of the author is rightly called into question. I read part of one book by a million copy, best-selling author. I had to put it down when I saw words that turned my stomach.

But that’s how depravity grows. You just put it on the shelves. And hope enough people are lulled into believing it’s OK.

That has got to end. Right now, the digital book market is filled with a sea of junk that is bolstered by the idea that anyone who can type X number of words becomes an instant writer the moment it appears.

Writing is a craft. It requires standards. It requires knowledge. Way too many don’t care about that anymore. They are brainwashed to believe that their junk has been elevated to “art” status only in their own minds.

That is how culture, literary culture, dies off. When standards are abandoned, you have a culture awash in bad gibberish that’s not worth anyone’s time, or propaganda that promotes the darkness. Darkness leads to nothing good.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Kamaduck]

Now that the good has been paved over in people’s minds, I watch as they scramble to write things that must not read like the ‘old stuff.’ So, what is new? More heartless, graphic killing? Children spewing profanity? I’ve seen a literal ton of manuscripts and I watch the fiction coming out. And when good is passé, your only choice is the deep, dark, filthy, lurid, crude and graphic. Man as intelligent? No - man at his worst. So let’s just write more and more stories where everyone, even kids, spews profanity. Let’s make it normative. Let’s lead by bad example.

Firstly, I don’t think you ever said why bad words are worse than violence- you said they’re both terrible things.

Secondly, nobody here is arguing for freely using profanity all the time. That’s just bad writing no matter how you slice it. The current argument is between those who want no profanity whatsoever, and those who think it’s OK within limits if used for purposes of realism and characterization. Nobody wants to write a story where children “spew expletives” (unless you classify 16 year olds as children, in which case some of us might).

Nobody here wants to write what you’re describing.

 

[Portrait]

Dear Portrait,

I lived through a period of time where respect for one’s character and reputation were both of great value. Where gossip, profanity and foul and explicit references were simply taught as wrong, and reinforced by those around you. This generally harmonious community attitude that was shaped from childhood resulted in intelligent, fun-loving adults who read the great writers and avoided the profane, because it could cause scandal to you, and your family. Your ‘good name’ was a treasure.

Since the late 1960s, I heard artists and writers clamor for more freedom. What sort of freedom? The graphic profanity of Chris Rock, books about pimps and whores, and the thinly veiled perversions given the nonsense name ‘erotica?’ The pointless graphic violence of Saving Private Ryan? No one who has been shot at or had a gun pressed against his head, as I have, not knowing if I was going to live or die, gains nothing by seeing it in a movie or written in a book. Having worked at a hospital, I was there in the ER with a man who was brought in with a shotgun wound. Fortunately, for him, the pellets had not penetrated too deeply or struck his heart.

Realism? Authenticity? I watched as movies sunk lower into degeneracy. Where heroes became vigilantes, then anti-heroes, then an undefined character who barely knew right and wrong. Darkness settled over too much written fiction. The word dark appeared in too many places. The walking dead is so not heart-warming or frightening anymore.

There is a glut of bad books because people have been brainwashed to believe in a fake freedom that can only continue to go downward.

Instead of enobling men, they are de-enobling men. Literally inviting people to roll in the filth and excrement and darkness. And they drape all of this in the ridiculous comment that it’s “art.” That the moment it appears in print or in digital form, our critical faculties cannot criticize it for some have been brainwashed, and teach others, that “art” is untouchable, inviolate and even ‘sacred’ in a purely irrational way. To say “it’s art” excuses nothing.

Thank you, dear brother, for those wonderful and apropos comments. I pray some writers take your words to heart.

Warmest best wishes,

Ed

Dear Ed,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Splendid (name removed by moderator)ut as always and I concur with all of your remarks. Indeed, a deep darkness has settled over far too much contemporary fiction and Catholic authors especially should be doing their utmost to dispel that darkness by producing fiction that truly ennobles, rather than producing fiction that is of low quality and character.

It is important, dear brother, that men understand that even in within a fictional context expletives still have the capacity to offend and demoralize those who read them. They are clearly not neutral. Moreover, the presence of profanity lowers the whole pitch of a work which might otherwise be eminently excellent, thus limiting its readership to those desensitized by or indifferent to unsavoury langauge. Incontrovertably, four-letter words do degrade and impair a novel from a moral health standpoint, for they are a debasing element which diminishes its literary worth.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[garn9173]

In a story I am writing my characters sometimes use bad words but not to excess. Is it a venial sin to write the story?

I don’t see anything wrong with it. Then again, I drop 4 letter word bombs left and right, drink like a fish and listen to gasp rock music.

 

[Portrait]

As someone who’s done, and is currently doing, quite a bit of writing for leisure, this is an interesting point.

Quite frankly, I’d say that in my own opinion, it’s not really necessary, and** it can detract from the quality of what would otherwise be a story. Think of all the great novels and stories that have been written, then and now, without recourse to swearing.**

Dear RPRPsych,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hear, hear to the above bolded remarks. Many of the great classics (and not so great classics) were written at a time when the Christian consciousness was still jolly influential and held sway within society. However, since the permissive Sixties we have been gradually breaking loose from the moral uprightness of previous generations. It is all part of godless man thinking that he has outgrown the idea of God and the moral restraints of an ‘oppressive religion’, the tenets of which have long since been supposedly debunked.

Are we truly a better more cultured society for all the smutty fiction, peppered with profanity, with which we are now sadly blighted?

God bless and thankyou for your contribution, dear friend.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax