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Nicea325
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I think we all have which is part of the process of maturity…Nicea,
I know what it is like to be confused. I’ve been there myself.
Peace,
Anna
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Nicea325
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Sorry…my bad!HE! Please, not She.
You are not the first one who thinks that Esdra is female.
No, it’s a male name, derived from Esdras (out of the deuterocanon: do you remember 1st and 2nd Esdras?) - The problem is that Esdras is already used in this forum, although he is seldom online.
I am not confused. I am simply interested in nearly everything. I am a Baptist with all of my heart. - But doesn’t mean that I am not allowed to read other “sacred scripture”, does it?
I am free to believe what I want and read what I want etc. - And that’s great, IMO!
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Esdra
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No problem.Sorry…my bad!
But I find it really interesting that people associate Esdra rather to be female than male.
Or is it the way I am writing? (Because once a member here in CAF told me so!
)
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Nicea325
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No, I actually I thought you had once stated your gender? I must have you confused with someone else. Sorry.No problem.
But I find it really interesting that people associate Esdra rather to be female than male.
Or is it the way I am writing? (Because once a member here in CAF told me so!
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Esdra
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I even didn’t know that you can. You mean on my profile or in a post?
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Nicea325
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A post.
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Esdra
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No, you mix me up with sombody!
Except you’d have read the post of the other poster that thought I was female - and you just remembered Esdra + female.
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1holycatholic
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ewtn.com/library/answers/deuteros.htm…
Furthermore, it can be documented that in his later years Jerome did accept certain deuterocanonical parts of the Bible. In his reply to Rufinus, he stoutly defended the deuterocanonical portions of Daniel even though the Jews of his day did not.
He wrote, “What sin have I committed if I followed the judgment of the churches? But he who brings charges against me for relating the objections that the Hebrews are wont to raise against the story of Susanna, the Son of the Three Children, and the story of Bel and the Dragon, which are not found in the Hebrew volume, proves that he is just a foolish sycophant. For I was not relating my own personal views, but rather the remarks that they [the Jews] are wont to make against us” (Against Rufinus 11:33 [A.D. 402]). Thus Jerome acknowledged the principle by which the canon was settled—the judgment of the Church, not of later Jews.
…
Ask yourself “Which books were in the Vulgate?” and the answer is that St. Jerome included all 73 books.
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onmyknees
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Hi Esdra, I can understand how you want to be around people who are on fire for Jesus Christ and the liveliness that goes with it. I am on fire for my Catholic faith because I left the church when I was 18 and did not return for many years. I visited many other churches during that time but what brought me back to the Catholic Church was the Eucharist! None of those churches had Jesus in the Eucharist. When we receive Him, his body, blood and soul and divinity we become more like Him and we have this very intimate time to talk to Him. No other church has the real presence in their communion.
I would suggest that if you want more liveliness than go to Christian concerts. I go to them because I love to sing praises to Him and be lively too. But feelings are just that feelings. Real love is an act of the will. Whether it is love for God and Jesus Christ or for our neighbor. We won’t always have fuzzy feelings when we make a choice to do a loving act for someone.
During the mass we have really and truly entered into Calvary. We are with Jesus, the Lamb of God, during His passion, and death on the cross! This is why it is called the sacrifice of the mass. It is sacred and holy! All the prayers at the mass are from either the old Testament or the new Testament! All the angels and saints come down from heaven to be with us at the mass. It is really heaven on earth!
When you say that you want to do things your way are you not leaving out the Truth of His Church that Christ gave to you at baptism. Sometimes we need to be humble and follow the rules that were given to us by the Holy Spirit through His Church.
I would suggest that if you want more liveliness than go to Christian concerts. I go to them because I love to sing praises to Him and be lively too. But feelings are just that feelings. Real love is an act of the will. Whether it is love for God and Jesus Christ or for our neighbor. We won’t always have fuzzy feelings when we make a choice to do a loving act for someone.
During the mass we have really and truly entered into Calvary. We are with Jesus, the Lamb of God, during His passion, and death on the cross! This is why it is called the sacrifice of the mass. It is sacred and holy! All the prayers at the mass are from either the old Testament or the new Testament! All the angels and saints come down from heaven to be with us at the mass. It is really heaven on earth!
When you say that you want to do things your way are you not leaving out the Truth of His Church that Christ gave to you at baptism. Sometimes we need to be humble and follow the rules that were given to us by the Holy Spirit through His Church.
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Anna_Scott
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Esdra,Yes, it is complicated. I think you can say that. I think I’m in general a complicated person - some people even lable me crazy!
Well, yes I have quite a history behind me, not only in searching Jesus…
And it’s getting even more complicated: Before I started searching for Jesus and a Church which is most similar to what I believe to be the “Ancient Christians” (at that time I didn’t give one thought that the CC is the “Ancient Christian Church”!),
I believed in many gods. I was most fascinated by Seth, the Egyptian god and lord over the desert, but also other gods. - I was in general very interested in mythology. (strangly enough not so in the Germanic Gods…)
It’s a pitty that hardly nobody can read and understand German, because I’ve even written a “catechism” if you want so about my “own religion”. I’ll give you link, maybe somebody here CAN understand German then you can read it.
I think I can understand people calling me crazy! lol
I thought it was complicated before; but now you tell me about your interest in pagan gods.
I’m really worried about you Esdra.
Since, you were Baptized into the Catholic Church, I will defer to Catholics in Communion with Rome to give comments and help.
I may be wrong, but I think you are crying out for help. There are many Catholics here who are more devoted to Christ than many in Baptist Churches–and I grew up in Southern Baptist Churches. So, please listen to your Catholic brethren. I know they can help. I will say don’t confuse emotion with the Holy Spirit. Some Evangelical Churches can really “work up” emotions during their services–sometimes to a point of frenzy. It’s easy to be deceived. Emotions do not equal the Holy Spirit.
Peace,
Anna
Edited to add PS: My apologies to the OP for the departure from our topic.
Yes he did, even though he had serious questions about their canonicity. And that is exactly what Luther did, and he didn’t have to because he was already excommunicated.
Jon
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Roman_Catholic_1
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Why do you believe he did? Or better still, did he offer his own opinion on why he included them?
God bless
Hi R_C, Hope you are well, my friend.
I think there were a number of things in play, first being his respect for the early Church and Church scholars, like Jerome. He also sincerely felt that they were important to the Christian faith, as he says above. I simply don’t believe he would approve of a Bible without them, something we American Lutherans ought to consider.
There are some Lutheran pastors here that might be able to shed more light here, particularly how and to what extent Lutheran clergy and theologians use the D-C’s.
Jon
The say the following, These books are not held equal to the Scriptures, but are useful and good to read.’”
I think there were a number of things in play, first being his respect for the early Church and Church scholars, like Jerome. He also sincerely felt that they were important to the Christian faith, as he says above. I simply don’t believe he would approve of a Bible without them, something we American Lutherans ought to consider.
There are some Lutheran pastors here that might be able to shed more light here, particularly how and to what extent Lutheran clergy and theologians use the D-C’s.
Jon
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Jim_Dandy
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I didn’t say Luther removed them from the Bible. I said he removed them *** from the canon*** and put them in a separate appendix in his German translation of the Bible published in 1534. He left the pages unnumbered so that readers of his Bible would not mistake them as belonging with the rest of the books he regarded as Scripture.
Luther’s followers restored Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation to their rightful place within the canon, but they let his rejection of the OT books stand.
The King James Version of 1611 followed Luther’s example and put the so-called “Apocrypha” in an appendix. Following a long period of controversy, they were excluded from all Protestant Bibles by the British and Foreign Bible Society. In 1827, they passed a resolution that no aid – financial or otherwise – would be given to any Bible society that produced Bibles containing the so-called “Apocrypha,” and that marked the end of their inclusion.
Modern Protestant Bibles now frequently include them in a separate section but, like Luther, do not regard them as canonical.
The sacred authors of the NT regarded the so-called “Apocrypha” as Scripture. 86% of the quotes from the OT in the NT are from the Greek Septuagint which Luther rejected. 14% are from the Hebrew which Luther accepted.
The Greek Septuagint containing the books Luther disputed were the Scriptures of Jesus, the Apostles, the authors of the NT, and the first Christians.
You can read his prefaces on line. He said the books were ‘good to read’ but he didn’t regard them as Scripture.
Jim Dandy
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Bill_Pick
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Why do you say it is the wrong bible it is the same Bible Cathloic have use for over 2000 years
Bill, he’s not. He’s saying that the exclusion of the deutero-canonical books from protestant bibles implies that the 73 book bible was wrong, from a protestant point of view.
Jon
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Jim_Dandy
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In support of your post, I’d like to mention that Pope Damasus I, who presided over the Council of Rome, the first local council to consider and define the canon, commissioned St. Jerome to translate what came to be called the Vulgate, based on the canon of the Council of Rome. This was the first official Christian Bible – 73 books. The Vulgate is still the official Bible of the Church.
St. Jerome was a loyal son of the Church. * Roma locuta est, causa finita est. (Rome has spoken, the case is closed.)* Once the canon was finalized, Jerome complied.
Peace, Jim Dandy
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WCH
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Can you support your assertion that Protestants believe the Bible to be in error?
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guanophore
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The need to remove books from the canon pretty much speaks for itself, don’t you think? It means that God was unable, or unwilling to guide His Church into “all Truth” until the Reformers came along and separated out some of the books in the collection used by Jesus and the Apostles.
The Reformers said these books were not “Scripture”. Therefore, every bible published with them in it for 1500 years were in error.
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