Wrong emphasis in same-sex marriage?

[Rosebud77]

? Are we going to punish a guy for breaking someone’s heart? Are we going to punish a mother for having an affair because it made her children sad? Are we going to punish a guy because he had pre marital sex and that hurt his parents? Are we going to punish a woman because she became an atheist?

That’s really not a good reason to make this illegal. Straight people also ‘hurt’ others, gay people aren’t the only ones capable of that. Unless you are all for making every sin that upsets families illegal (which is also absurd), it just looks discriminatory towards the lgbt community.

And if a person is “more upset” about a family member/etc being gay than other mortal sins…it just shows that the person needs to work on his/herself and their view on homosexuality. More often than not, it’s because said person is disgusted at it because it’s “different”. Which is absurd too!

Assuring you that a mother or father being unfaithful does a h***of a lot more than “making children sad”. It destroys a part of them and causes terrible pain and damage

 

[Peter_J]

? Are we going to punish a guy for breaking someone’s heart? Are we going to punish a mother for having an affair because it made her children sad? Are we going to punish a guy because he had pre marital sex and that hurt his parents? Are we going to punish a woman because she became an atheist?

That’s really not a good reason to make this illegal.

MARGARET Father, that man’s bad.

MORE There is no law against that.

ROPER There is: God’s law!

MORE Then God can arrest him.

ROPER Sophistication upon sophistication!

MORE No, sheer simplicity. The law, Roper, the law. I know what’s legal not what’s right. And I’ll stick to what’s legal.

ROPER Then you set man’s law above God’s!

MORE No, far below; but let me draw your attention to a fact — I’m not God.

(from Robert Bolt’s A Man for All Seasons, quoted in
When the Devil Turns Round)

 

[Lea101]

Assuring you that a mother or father being unfaithful does a h***of a lot more than “making children sad”. It destroys a part of them and causes terrible pain and damage

That’s honestly not the point. (Anyway, sad isn’t inaccurate, it’s a simplistic way of putting it). Thing is, you can be devastated and be on the brink of suicide, but that doesn’t mean that the unfaithful parent should be locked up, it’s just something you need to work on personally (and in some cases, work on your relationship with the person)

 

[Lou2U]

By your thinking, we should legalize drugs, pornography, gambling, bestiality, polygamy, swearing in public, etc.

All laws (even laws against murder), spring from concepts of morality. Since Western countries are based on Christian culture, it is right that their laws reflect the values of this culture.

Why should we legalise the other things?

Lou

 

[GEddie]

? Are we going to punish a guy for breaking someone’s heart? Are we going to punish a mother for having an affair because it made her children sad? Are we going to punish a guy because he had pre marital sex and that hurt his parents? Are we going to punish a woman because she became an atheist?

That’s really not a good reason to make this illegal. Straight people also ‘hurt’ others, gay people aren’t the only ones capable of that. Unless you are all for making every sin that upsets families illegal (which is also absurd), it just looks discriminatory towards the lgbt community.

And if a person is “more upset” about a family member/etc being gay than other mortal sins…it just shows that the person needs to work on his/herself and their view on homosexuality. More often than not, it’s because said person is disgusted at it because it’s “different”. Which is absurd too!

Broken homes due to divorce and adultery are not just about hurt feelings and “unhappiness” in the sentimental sense. There are real societal costs.

If one accepts that the civic society has power to regulate familial formation – and it does – then laws such as suggested make sense, although, I concur, they have zero chance of being enacted or upheld in the current society.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Lea101]

Broken homes due to divorce and adultery are not just about hurt feelings and “unhappiness” in the sentimental sense. There are real societal costs.

If one accepts that the civic society has power to regulate familial formation – and it does – then laws such as suggested make sense, although, I concur, they have zero chance of being enacted or upheld in the current society.

ICXC NIKA

I’m not saying that it’s not a big deal

If your dad having an affair devastates you, what about him being arrested?

If you are bothered with me using the word ‘sad’ instead of a stronger word, then replace the word in your mind, the point still stands…making homosexual sex illegal because it can break someone else’s heart is really not a good reason It’s an issue for the family/people involved to work out (including situations like divorce)

 

[pensmama87]

I’m not saying that it’s not a big deal

If your dad having an affair devastates you, what about him being arrested?

If you are bothered with me using the word ‘sad’ instead of a stronger word, then replace the word in your mind, the point still stands…making homosexual sex illegal because it can break someone else’s heart is really not a good reason It’s an issue for the family/people involved to work out (including situations like divorce)

Well, it used to be that divorces required a party to be considered responsible. With no-fault divorce that’s no longer the case.

 

[Rosebud77]

That’s honestly not the point. (Anyway, sad isn’t inaccurate, it’s a simplistic way of putting it). Thing is, you can be devastated and be on the brink of suicide, but that doesn’t mean that the unfaithful parent should be locked up, it’s just something you need to work on personally (and in some cases, work on your relationship with the person)

And it is very much the point my dear. There are many forms of child abuse and yes, there should be proper punishment as there is in some cases. Negligence in the extreme.
Work on relationship? Oh DEAR!!

 

[Rosebud77]

Broken homes due to divorce and adultery are not just about hurt feelings and “unhappiness” in the sentimental sense. There are real societal costs.

If one accepts that the civic society has power to regulate familial formation – and it does – then laws such as suggested make sense, although, I concur, they have zero chance of being enacted or upheld in the current society.

ICXC NIKA

Thank you.

 

[Rosebud77]

I’m not saying that it’s not a big deal

If your dad having an affair devastates you, what about him being arrested?

If you are bothered with me using the word ‘sad’ instead of a stronger word, then replace the word in your mind, the point still stands…making homosexual sex illegal because it can break someone else’s heart is really not a good reason It’s an issue for the family/people involved to work out (including situations like divorce)

grasshopper you have a lot to learn… I am sure you do not mean to sound callous. or naive…

 

[Venera_Milan]

Shouldn’t be better to campaign to make homosexual acts criminal? A lot of Christian African countries have done this. And pretty much all Islamic countries. And British countries too, until relatively recently.

A good idea?

Sure it is./sarcasm

It’s a pure Nazism. Persecuting your mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters ,perfectly healthy people according to Nature and Science for who they are.

Although I have to say I’m not surprised in the slightest that this idea comes from a Christian.

Here is a historical fact for you.

**When Christians came into power **in the Ancient World they started persecution not only those ones who believed differently and held different views. They declared that homosexual people should be burned alive. And they were. It was law.

Gay people were to be BURNED ALIVE like NAZI did in the NAZI Germany where gay people were burned alive in ovens in Dachau concentration camp.

In time tortures,executions got more humane, then it was prisons etc.

You, Christians, persecuted(and I’m talking about Nazi level of persecution, real persecution, not just your baker fined for discrimination “persecution”) gay people for more than THOUSAND years. A vile, Nazi, persecution based on a totalitarian anti-human religious ideology.

That is a fact for you.

So let me tell you this.

I dunno how far you are willing to go with these Nazi ideas but we are prepared to defend our country and spill blood to stop anyone from turning it into Christian\Muslim Shariah or Christian\Muslim Nazi State. Are you?

 

[matthewww]

And it is very much the point my dear. There are many forms of child abuse and yes, there should be proper punishment as there is in some cases. Negligence in the extreme.
Work on relationship? Oh DEAR!!

adultery is not child abuse. more often than not, people who cheat do not cheat to hurt their children, but because their relationship with the spouse is weak. Divorce has nothing to do with the children. Children already feel like they are the reason why their parents split up and they feel bad when they see their parents upset/fighting all the time. locking their mom/dad up and ruining the person’s life because “he/she hurt their children” won’t help

Parents who directly hurt their children should be punished because of abuse, divorce does not count. Divorce is something between the parents.

ps…locking up someone because he has an affair is crazy…what is that supposed to do? protect the family? well, the person is separated from the family and the family is already hurt. Is it supposed to deter people from cheating? Well, if a person refrains from cheating just because the person is afraid of jail time, not because he loves his family…the family is probably weak already.

 

[matthewww]

Sure it is./sarcasm

It’s a pure Nazism. Persecuting your mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters ,perfectly healthy people according to Nature and Science for who they are.

Although I have to say I’m not surprised in the slightest that this idea comes from a Christian.

Here is a historical fact for you.

**When Christians came into power **in the Ancient World they started persecution not only those ones who believed differently and held different views. They declared that homosexual people should be burned alive. And they were. It was law.

Gay people were to be BURNED ALIVE like NAZI did in the NAZI Germany where gay people were burned alive in ovens in Dachau concentration camp.

In time tortures,executions got more humane, then it was prisons etc.

You, Christians, persecuted(and I’m talking about Nazi level of persecution, real persecution, not just your baker fined for discrimination “persecution”) gay people for more than THOUSAND years. A vile, Nazi, persecution based on a totalitarian anti-human religious ideology.

That is a fact for you.

So let me tell you this.

I dunno how far you are willing to go with these Nazi ideas but we are prepared to defend our country and spill blood to stop anyone from turning it into Christian\Muslim Shariah or Christian\Muslim Nazi State. Are you?

Christians have done terrible things in the past, and there are terrible people in all groups. We apologize for that. as you can see, many people oppose OP’s idea…hopefully that calms you a little.

 

[jjr9]

I wonder if the question of same-sex marriage is really the important one.

Shouldn’t be better to campaign to make homosexual acts criminal? A lot of Christian African countries have done this. And pretty much all Islamic countries. And British countries too, until relatively recently.

It seems all people, even the least educated, feel a natural moral revulsion to homosexual acts. Bestiality is still illegal (I think). Surely, the same principal applies.

The question is not so much about what is ‘marriage’, but rather if our society will tolerate these acts which abhorrent to all moral laws.

This is not to say we should discriminate against people afflicted with these tendencies. In fact, to prevent them from acting on them, is actually doing them a favour, like not allowing drug users access to harmful and degrading substance abuse.

A good idea?

I believe that to stand by and let SSM become entrenched as morally acceptable in society
is a bad idea.

I believe you are correct that SSM is not the fundamental issue but to try and make sinful
behavior illegal goes against the Lord’s gift of Freewill. Morality must come from within it
cannot be imposed. Laws against murder ect. are usually designed to prevent interference
of others Freewill and I believe appropriate although not all laws are perfect because neither
are we.

I believe the fundamental issue is that the mythical “homosexual person” has been accepted
as real. SSA is real a temptation or sinful if obsessed on, SS behavior is real always a sin and
exclusive SSA is a myth promoted by an LGBT orthodoxy that demands acceptance with no
tolerance of differing views.

God bless

 

[Peter_J]

Sure it is./sarcasm

It’s a pure Nazism. Persecuting your mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters ,perfectly healthy people according to Nature and Science for who they are.

Although I have to say I’m not surprised in the slightest that this idea comes from a Christian.

Here is a historical fact for you.

**When Christians came into power **in the Ancient World they started persecution not only those ones who believed differently and held different views. They declared that homosexual people should be burned alive. And they were. It was law.

Gay people were to be BURNED ALIVE like NAZI did in the NAZI Germany where gay people were burned alive in ovens in Dachau concentration camp.

In time tortures,executions got more humane, then it was prisons etc.

You, Christians, persecuted(and I’m talking about Nazi level of persecution, real persecution, not just your baker fined for discrimination “persecution”) gay people for more than THOUSAND years. A vile, Nazi, persecution based on a totalitarian anti-human religious ideology.

That is a fact for you.

So let me tell you this.

I dunno how far you are willing to go with these Nazi ideas but we are prepared to defend our country and spill blood to stop anyone from turning it into Christian\Muslim Shariah or Christian\Muslim Nazi State. Are you?

I don’t want to engage with most of the points you brought up. But wrt the person you quoted, may I point out that there are two billion other Christians in the world, and not all of them post on CAF.

No bunch of apples is completely homogenous, as the saying goes.

With that in mind I would ask: is the real issue for you the fact that this or that conservative Christian wants to recriminalize homosexual acts, or is it that you haven’t heard (sufficient?) condemnations of such proposals by other conservative Christians?

 

[Hatikvah]

… may I point out that there are two billion other Christians in the world, and not all of them post on CAF.

But we must also keep in mind that many of these Christians are solely cultural Christians and probably “go with the flow” on issues like gay marriage and whatever else we want to accept. (Also, if every Christian posted on CAF, that would be chaotic!)

 

[Qoeleth]

Sure it is./sarcasm

It’s a pure Nazism. Persecuting your mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters ,perfectly healthy people according to Nature and Science for who they are.

Although I have to say I’m not surprised in the slightest that this idea comes from a Christian.

Here is a historical fact for you.

**When Christians came into power **in the Ancient World they started persecution not only those ones who believed differently and held different views. They declared that homosexual people should be burned alive. And they were. It was law.

Gay people were to be BURNED ALIVE like NAZI did in the NAZI Germany where gay people were burned alive in ovens in Dachau concentration camp.

In time tortures,executions got more humane, then it was prisons etc.

You, Christians, persecuted(and I’m talking about Nazi level of persecution, real persecution, not just your baker fined for discrimination “persecution”) gay people for more than THOUSAND years. A vile, Nazi, persecution based on a totalitarian anti-human religious ideology.

That is a fact for you.

So let me tell you this.

I dunno how far you are willing to go with these Nazi ideas but we are prepared to defend our country and spill blood to stop anyone from turning it into Christian\Muslim Shariah or Christian\Muslim Nazi State. Are you?

Right. So by your thinking, the our brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe, Gambia, etc. are Nazi? Black Nazis??

Your expressions are highly offensive to Christians. You should not insult Christianity. I will pray for your soul that you may be converted to one true and saving Faith, and that the good Lord may have mercy on you.

 

[Peter_J]

But we must also keep in mind that many of these Christians are solely cultural Christians

Good point. But even so, there are quite a lot of Crhistians (regardless what criteria we use for counting who is Christian) so one single Christian is a really really really really really really really really really small percentage.

P.S. it occurs to me, though, that one could in fact define Christian to mean “wanting to criminalize homosexual acts”, in which case one could definitely say “Christians want to criminalize homosexual acts.”

 

[Cheiron]

Right. So by your thinking, the our brothers and sisters in Zimbabwe, Gambia, etc. are Nazi? Black Nazis??

Your expressions are highly offensive to Christians. You should not insult Christianity. I will pray for your soul that you may be converted to one true and saving Faith, and that the good Lord may have mercy on you.

You’ve compared homosexuality to bestiality; you advocate the imprisonment of gay people and now you’re complaining that someone on this thread is offensive? Really?

Don’t dish out if you can’t take it.

 

[o_mlly]

I wonder if the question of same-sex marriage is really the important one.

Shouldn’t be better to campaign to make homosexual acts criminal?..

A good idea?

Regarding moral and immoral acts, civil society, through its laws can:

1. 
   *]and ought proscribe immoral acts which are enforceable
   *]and ought prescribe moral acts which are enforceable
   *]but ought not license immoral acts
   *]but ought not prescribe moral acts which are unenforceable
   *]but ought not proscribe immoral acts which are unenforceable
   
   Same Sex Marriage Act violates 3. Think of the children.