WWYD? "Please stand and greet your neighbor."

[EasterJoy]

I come from the perspective of an adult convert. I am the only Catholic in my family (besides my very small kids). I do not have support from my family (in fact, downright animosity from some). I do not feel support from my church. How am I to raise my kids Catholic on my own? I go to mass, sometimes I can’t have communion because it is hard to get to confession. I feel like I’m just going through the motions, aside from shaking the deacon’s hand on the way out, it’s pretty much like I wasn’t even there. I don’t feel like my church, or anyone in my church, cares about me or my wellbeing.

If the people on this board are representative of the church, the ambassadors of the faith to the outside world, it doesn’t make me feel very hopeful for any change.

You need to have a talk with your confessor. The only reason you would have to avoid receiving Holy Communion is if you have a mortal sin on your soul. If this is a regular occurrence, such that having to refrain from receiving Holy Communion is a regular occurence because it is hard to get to confession, that is a matter of great spiritual consequence.

This is from the Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
292. What are the fruits of Holy Communion?
1391-1397
1416
Holy Communion increases our union with Christ and with his Church. It preserves and renews the life of grace received at Baptism and Confirmation and makes us grow in love for our neighbor. It strengthens us in charity,* wipes away venial sins and preserves us from mortal sin in the future**.*

AND

306. Why can venial sins also be the object of sacramental confession?
1458
The confession of venial sins is strongly recommended by the Church, even if this is not strictly necessary, because it helps us to form a correct conscience and to fight against evil tendencies. It allows us to be healed by Christ and to progress in the life of the Spirit.

The Church recommends that the faithful regularly avail themselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, even if they have not committed any mortal sins, for the spiritual advantages the sacrament offers in the work of progressing in the life of the Spirit. The Church DOES NOT recommend that those who have practical difficulty when it comes to availing themselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation in order to confess venial sins avoid receiving Holy Communion for that reason! It is quite to the contrary!

You are in a difficult situation because you are so busy…that is, I’m going to assume that if you are too strapped for time to get to confession that you will also find it difficult to get to know fellow parishioners by doing volunteer work or attending parish functions that take place outside the Mass. Having said that, you might find that volunteering to be an adult helper when your children take religious education classes, as an example, will be a way to make more substantial connections than what shaking hands with the people near you at Mass could do. The way to get to know people and to develop a relationship of trust with them, such that they can help you navigate the difficult times in your life, is to spend substantial amounts of time with them. There isn’t a good way around that.

 

[Mark121359]

This thread is beginning to go off topic, but I will say your sources are from 2015. Nothing has changed in the Catholic Church. The “shadow council” had their opinions and nothing has changed. One look at the comments there will show that most readers found the meeting to be useless and not following Catholic beliefs.

Correct. Nothing has changed. But nevertheless the point is, is that there are those in the hierarchy who do want to bring about this change. One would have to be blind not to notice…or not looking hard enough. Sorry about the “off topic” part. I was only answering post by misspriss…Carry-on.

Peace, Mark

 

[misspriss]

The Church recommends that the faithful regularly avail themselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, even if they have not committed any mortal sins, for the spiritual advantages the sacrament offers in the work of progressing in the life of the Spirit. The Church DOES NOT recommend that those who have practical difficulty when it comes to availing themselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation in order to confess venial sins avoid receiving Holy Communion for that reason! It is quite to the contrary!

You are in a difficult situation because you are so busy…that is, I’m going to assume that if you are too strapped for time to get to confession that you will also find it difficult to get to know fellow parishioners by doing volunteer work or attending parish functions that take place outside the Mass. Having said that, you might find that volunteering to be an adult helper when your children take religious education classes, as an example, will be a way to make more substantial connections than what shaking hands with the people near you at Mass could do. The way to get to know people and to develop a relationship of trust with them, such that they can help you navigate the difficult times in your life, is to spend substantial amounts of time with them. There isn’t a good way around that.

You know what the biggest hurdle for confession is? Childcare. I cannot leave my 2 and 4 year olds outside the confessional but they are too old to go in and listen.

My OLDEST will be old enough for PRE this fall, but I cannot volunteer as I will have two younger ones to keep in the mean time.

I am quite aware of my sins, they are quite common sins and frequently discussed as being definitely mortally sinful - so I would not put my soul at further risk by receiving communion while in a state of mortal sin.

 

[EasterJoy]

Why do you go to Mass? To meet people? Or to worship God? I’m not trying to be obnoxious, I think it’s a valid question. I agree 100% that parishes could foster a better sense of community, inclusiveness, and friendliness. But NOT in the nave of the church and NOT just before Mass. Wrong place, wrong time.

In theory, I can see that the idea is well-meant. In practice, however, I have not had the experience that it achieves the intended result. Too many introverts will not find a handshake-on-demand to be a sufficient ice-breaker, whereas an extrovert hardly needs such a thing. The idea is good, but in practice the pay-off isn’t worth encouraging everyone to interrupt anyone who happened to be in quiet recollection at a time when quiet recollection is totally appropriate. It is better–in my experience, because my parish has actually tried both!–to give the cell phone reminder and then to remind everyone to quiet themselves down and prepare interiorly for Mass by ceasing conversation with their neighbors immediately before Mass starts. That practice does make a difference, and in a nice way. If you get an entire group to quiet down, even just for two or three minutes, you have a group with a totally different attitude.

I do like having “greeters” near the door, because it gives new people an invitation to ask questions and gives the impression that the parish does want to encourage fellowship between Christians rather than imagining that the members of the Body of Christ are better off ignoring each other at all times, rather than using the Mass to turn their gaze in a single direction: towards and within the life of their Lord and Savior in offering their whole lives *as one *through the Spirit, to the Father. In an ideal world, however, this is done in a vestibule or at the entrances, not in the nave of the church.

No, the only reason I oppose the “stand and greet those around you” is that we live in a time when it is difficult to find recollection, particularly as a congregation. The work of worship is work, and it requires attention. We are so busy and so constantly distracted that we are more in need of a guarded time for putting distractions aside as we enter into our common prayer together. That is not my opinion only, but my experience as a member of a parish which has tried both theories on for size.

 

[1neophyte]

Does his book represent a change in the teachings of the Church?

Most definitely. Change creeps. It’s not a big bang. The change from mass being a solemn, silent, sacred event into “let’s imitate the protestant churches and follow the majority consensus” didn’t happen overnight. Sixty years from now, Church teaching will be in the hands of today’s children who are growing up in a completely different reality than those who are in leadership positions now. If they are brought up in a reality where the function of mass is social connection and affirmation, then as someone said before, I weep for humanity.

 

[misspriss]

Most definitely. Change creeps. It’s not a big bang. The change from mass being a solemn, silent, sacred event into “let’s imitate the protestant churches and follow the majority consensus” didn’t happen overnight.

Well, you can start a new thread on that I suppose, this thread is mostly about greeting each other at mass

 

[EasterJoy]

You know what the biggest hurdle for confession is? Childcare. I cannot leave my 2 and 4 year olds outside the confessional but they are too old to go in and listen.

My OLDEST will be old enough for PRE this fall, but I cannot volunteer as I will have two younger ones to keep in the mean time.

I am quite aware of my sins, they are quite common sins and frequently discussed as being definitely mortally sinful - so I would not put my soul at further risk by receiving communion while in a state of mortal sin.

Talk this problem over with your pastor. If he is like any pastor I have ever had, he certainly will want to help you find a way to receive Holy Communion on a regular basis. Having a state of mortal sin as your default condition because you lack child care and struggle with a serious moral difficulty or difficulties on an on-going basis is no way for a follower of our beloved Lord to have to live. It calls for more than periodic confessions that do not let on to the scope of the underlying problems that put you in this unsustainable predicament.

 

[SuperHappy]

Why are you surprised? This is exactly what I’m talking about–the other side can’t even imagine that there is another side, let alone that it has a valid point of view.

I acknowledge your point of view, and I respect it. Please acknowledge my point of view and respect it.

I acknowledge and respect your point of view, that’s why earlier on I said there should probably be two services, one for worshipers who want to worship in a more formal way with silence and no greetings and another for those who appreciate a more contemporary type service.

I

 

[SuperHappy]

Why do you go to Mass? To meet people? Or to worship God? I’m not trying to be obnoxious, I think it’s a valid question. I agree 100% that parishes could foster a better sense of community, inclusiveness, and friendliness. But NOT in the nave of the church and NOT just before Mass. Wrong place, wrong time.

I like enjoy being in the fellowship of other worshippers, to share in the prayers and the music and have a communal experience. When I want dead silence and privacy to pour my heart out to God, I would not expect to do that during a public Mass time.

I agree there is a time and place for everything.

 

[1neophyte]

Well, you can start a new thread on that I suppose, this thread is mostly about greeting each other at mass

And that is exactly the topic I’m discussing.

Look, silence is a powerful gift. One can sit alone at home in silence, but that is not nearly as powerful as a large group of people sitting in silence, speechless at being in the physical sacramental Presence of Jesus. There are 15 other waking hours in the day when we can be jovial and jabber on and on as humans are so fond of doing. Why can we not set aside this one hour as a precious gift to enter into a completely different reality - - - the reality of Heaven? Why do we have to throw this gift away in favor of “Welcome! How are you? I’m so glad you’re here!”?

Why is this such a difficult concept? If I had to guess, it would be because we really don’t see the mass as anything different than what goes on in any other “church”. And that is nothing less than tragic.

 

[misspriss]

Talk this problem over with your pastor. If he is like any pastor I have ever had, he certainly will want to help you find a way to receive Holy Communion on a regular basis. Having a state of mortal sin as your default condition because you lack child care and struggle with a serious moral difficulty or difficulties on an on-going basis is no way for a follower of our beloved Lord to have to live. It calls for more than periodic confessions that do not let on to the scope of the underlying problems that put you in this unsustainable predicament.

I’ve tried talking with him before, it didn’t go well. I do receive communion on a regular basis, I just said “sometimes I can’t take communion”, SOMETIMES. There used to be regular confessions before mass, then our current priest came in and he doesn’t stay in the confessional - you find him and request confession - which is not available behind the screen, which I prefer (we talked about this, he was unable to give me an answer as to why it could not be available behind the screen). He is very busy, he also says mass at another church in another language so he doesn’t have much time. So I go to confession at a different church now as I feel uncomfortable confessing face to face (although it doesn’t keep me away, it just makes me uncomfortable), but that means I have to arrange for someone to keep the kids so I can go early and go to confession, so then the kids don’t go to mass with me.

But I digress, this is way off topic. I wish the church had some provisions for people to go to confession who have kids, like a trusted, trained person who can sit on the pew next to the confessional and watch the kids while the parent confesses. It wouldn’t be that hard of a provision, 20 minutes, ya know? If I didn’t have my hands full with my own kids I’d volunteer for that sort of thing, but I have 3 of my own and I think that is about as many as I can handle. Or have a confessing room with a “kid room” off to the side with a glass door so you can keep an eye on your kids and they can see you but not hear you. This would allow the kids to see you in the sacrament and learn, without having to hear the details of your sins or be disruptive. But that would require construction and stuff and I just don’t see that being a big thing.

Kids grow. In a couple of years, my oldest will be old enough to keep an eye on the younger ones while I go to confession. I can take the baby in with me for a while. But yeah, just a tough spot right now.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Maybe another question is that of why parishioners are not naturally drawn together outside of mass

 

[SuperHappy]

I have not heard of the Catholic church accepting homosexual marriage. Please provide evidence of this shift.

It has not happened yet, but according to this article, many priests are supporting the gay community and offering Mass in support of Pride.

josephsciambra.com/pride-priest-offers-retreat-for-lgbt-catholics-in-nyc/

 

[SuperHappy]

I come from the perspective of an adult convert. I am the only Catholic in my family (besides my very small kids). I do not have support from my family (in fact, downright animosity from some). I do not feel support from my church. How am I to raise my kids Catholic on my own? I go to mass, sometimes I can’t have communion because it is hard to get to confession. I feel like I’m just going through the motions, aside from shaking the deacon’s hand on the way out, it’s pretty much like I wasn’t even there. I don’t feel like my church, or anyone in my church, cares about me or my wellbeing.

If the people on this board are representative of the church, the ambassadors of the faith to the outside world, it doesn’t make me feel very hopeful for any change.

This is exactly what I mean, people need support and need a community of believers to help them in their walk. People need to feel the love of Christ! That is expressed by people making them feel welcome and wanted in worship.

I am so sorry you feel like nobody at your church cares for you & your children. I’ll be praying for you in your walk.

 

[EasterJoy]

I like enjoy being in the fellowship of other worshippers, to share in the prayers and the music and have a communal experience. When I want dead silence and privacy to pour my heart out to God, I would not expect to do that during a public Mass time.

I agree there is a time and place for everything.

There was a time when the moments prior to Sunday Mass would be exactly a time you could most expect not utter silence but an uninterrupted time to quiet yourself and turn your focus as entirely towards the work of the liturgy as you are capable of doing. I mean that Catholics simply did not engage in idle conversation in the nave of their parish church. This was out of a desire to constantly show an awareness that they were in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament in repose in the tabernacle. The inside of the church simply was not a place to chat–again, not even when you were cleaning it, because of course the need for reverence for Our Lord offering His holy presence so totally in the Blessed Sacrament was still there.

The common atmosphere that we experience now in the nave of many (if not most) Catholic churches generally and before Mass in particular is a novelty in the history of the Church, including the Church in the United States. There was a time when reverence for the presence of the Blessed Sacrament produced a common expectation of reverence, a habitually quiet attitude that went beyond the reverence that comes with the knowledge that one is never out of the holy presence of God. In many churches now, the atmosphere is more like Protestant churches, which understandably have a different custom because they have no tabernacles.

 

[SuperHappy]

Does his book represent a change in the teachings of the Church?

No it doesn’t but I believe that his appointment represents a movement within the Catholic Faith.

 

[SuperHappy]

Maybe another question is that of why parishioners are not naturally drawn together outside of mass

Very true!

The spirit of community needs to grow.

 

[misspriss]

This is exactly what I mean, people need support and need a community of believers to help them in their walk. People need to feel the love of Christ! That is expressed by people making them feel welcome and wanted in worship.

I am so sorry you feel like nobody at your church cares for you & your children. I’ll be praying for you in your walk.

I don’t feel like Christians are supposed to exist in a vacuum. I appreciate your prayers, I’m going through a tough time.

When I see announcements in the bulletin for the church throwing a baby shower for an expectant mother in the church, I wonder what I am missing? I’m not even sure I’ve received a congratulations on my pregnancy, let along an offer to have a shower - is there some group or clique I’m supposed to be in? I am there on Sunday, there aren’t Sunday school classes to be involved in, so I guess these people are just friends outside of church? or maybe they have older kids in PRE and fellowship then. I just feel like such an outsider still.

At my usual church, where I struggle with the confession setup, they have non groups for young moms, just “ladies” - I went once, everyone there was old enough to be my mother, or grandmother. The church I now go to confession at (confession offered before every mass, behind the screen) had a young mom’s group - but I found the childcare subpar - a 15 year old on her own with an unknown number of kids of all ages. It was also held too late at night, past my kid’s bedtimes. They are offering other kids activities, also ending long after my kids bedtimes, for 4 year olds! It was just not doable.

It’s the kind of thing that makes me miss my old Baptist church I grew up in, although I disagree with their teachings, they have the social part down. Nursery, background checked and verified employees, electronic, photo verified sign in-sign out procedures, etc. They have a coffee shop, so built in coffee hour, library that kids can check out books from or sit around and read together as well as sunday school and fellowship after the worship for all ages. The sunday school groups have get togethers, cookouts together, go out to eat together once a month…they are not lacking in fellowship.

Can’t we have fellowship as well as Mass? Why does it have to be one without the other?

 

[ConfusedLucy]

I don’t feel like Christians are supposed to exist in a vacuum. I appreciate your prayers, I’m going through a tough time.

When I see announcements in the bulletin for the church throwing a baby shower for an expectant mother in the church, I wonder what I am missing? I’m not even sure I’ve received a congratulations on my pregnancy, let along an offer to have a shower - is there some group or clique I’m supposed to be in? I am there on Sunday, there aren’t Sunday school classes to be involved in, so I guess these people are just friends outside of church? or maybe they have older kids in PRE and fellowship then. I just feel like such an outsider still.

At my usual church, where I struggle with the confession setup, they have non groups for young moms, just “ladies” - I went once, everyone there was old enough to be my mother, or grandmother. The church I now go to confession at (confession offered before every mass, behind the screen) had a young mom’s group - but I found the childcare subpar - a 15 year old on her own with an unknown number of kids of all ages. It was also held too late at night, past my kid’s bedtimes. They are offering other kids activities, also ending long after my kids bedtimes, for 4 year olds! It was just not doable.

It’s the kind of thing that makes me miss my old Baptist church I grew up in, although I disagree with their teachings, they have the social part down. Nursery, background checked and verified employees, electronic, photo verified sign in-sign out procedures, etc. They have a coffee shop, so built in coffee hour, library that kids can check out books from or sit around and read together as well as sunday school and fellowship after the worship for all ages. The sunday school groups have get togethers, cookouts together, go out to eat together once a month…they are not lacking in fellowship.

Can’t we have fellowship as well as Mass? Why does it have to be one without the other?

I know what you mean about not being in the right clique and it seeming like things aren’t being advertised. I think to succeed socially in the Catholic Church you have to be very outgoing and charming and maybe even a bit pushy with people. Obviously that’s not everyone’s personality.

 

[pensmama87]

Misspriss, I may have missed this, but you might want to discuss this with the DRE and/or youth group leaders, rather than your pastor. They might have a better idea of what could actually be accomplished and how.

One couple we know at a nearby parish runs childcare one Saturday per month for confessions. We end up going there a lot. Even though we frequently go together, it was frustrating for my husband and me because we couldn’t both stand in line and watch the kids, which made it take a lot longer because there’d be penitents between us. Sometimes someone would be kind and let us jump in line, but rarely, and lines are sacred so of course neither of us would actually ask to cut.

Our parish has started offering confessions with childcare during Advent and Lent, which is a good start, at least. The babysitters are mostly older ladies.

Another parish near us offers childcare a few times per year in conjunction with programming for married couples. It is teens, but they’re overseen by professionals who are paid, either out of the registration fee for the event or a separate charge for parents (much lower than hiring a sitter yourself, though.)

One thing these have in common is that they were all started within the past five years or so. I have thought every now and then about some kind of formalized babysitting ministry, but it would probably have to wait until I wasn’t a mom in need of it to do it right. I also live in a generally family friendly area, which is not the culture everywhere.