WWYD? "Please stand and greet your neighbor."

[Oneofthewomen]

This is why you weep for humanity? This?

This is just a small symptoms of the problems that plague humanity.
What I weep for is the fact that people don’t see that perpetuating this dualistic, either/or thinking has taken the humanity out of humans.

 

[1neophyte]

This is just a small symptoms of the problems that plague humanity.
What I weep for is the fact that people don’t see that perpetuating this dualistic, either/or thinking has taken the humanity out of humans.

You mean the dualistic thinking that says “EITHER you participate in this exhausting compulsory greeting display whether you like it or not, OR there’s something wrong with you”? Yes, I agree. It is a plague on humanity.

 

[pnewton]

It’s definitely important to develop friendships and relationships with other believers, but turning Mass into a social time isn’t the answer.

Again, this is not what was being done. I believe the OP clarified it was about thirty seconds and it occurred before Mass began.

 

[pnewton]

This is just a small symptoms of the problems that plague humanity.
What I weep for is the fact that people don’t see that perpetuating this dualistic, either/or thinking has taken the humanity out of humans.

There is also a dualistic thinking here that says any sort of social interaction conflicts with the sanctify of the Mass. I have even seen it referred to as a loss of value of the sacred. However, this is not an either/or situation, any more than a great homily takes away from holiness of the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

A parish can be warm, friendly, social and still maintain a holiness and beauty during Mass.

 

[EnglishTeacher]

Again, this is not what was being done. I believe the OP clarified it was about thirty seconds and it occurred before Mass began.

It’s definitely disruptive to prayer and a sense of the sacred, even though it may last less than a minute. My husband and I visited a parish just last week that did the greeting thing before Mass. Although I will say, from what I have seen, the churches that do a forced greeting are usually physically constructed in a way that de-emphasizes the sacred anyway, so maybe the two go hand-in-hand.

What would be wrong if we returned to a balance of what was described by JimG?

But I am old enough to remember what Sunday Mass was like in my pre Vatican II parish. At Sunday Mass, everyone was friendly and there was a great deal of socializing, both before and after mass—all of it occuring in the parking lot, in front of the church, on the church steps, and sometimes in the vestibule. But once one opened the door from the vestibule to the church and entered, perfect silence reigned. People entered silently; whole families entered silently, genuflected, knelt and prayed. No one spoke. A Baptist friend I once took with me to Mass commented on it, amazed at the silence. But that was normal. Outside, after Mass, and in the vestibule, conversation and visiting began again and persisted for a while. Those who stayed in church to pray after Mass were undisturbed.

This would be the ideal. Why do we need to interrupt prayer for a superficial greeting time that doesn’t do much for anyone anyway? Easter Joy hit the nail right on the head a few posts back:

We are far too much in the habit of ignoring other people when we venture outside the church building–that is, lonely people actually see the moments before Mass as a time to make a social connection that properly ought to have been more than satisfied outside the space dedicated to worship, prayer and contemplation. If that were to change, the greeting immediately before Mass would be unnecessary. More to the point, if it doesn’t change, what good is a hand shake from someone who will be certain to ignore you at all other times of the week?

 

[Crusaderbear]

Why does sacred have to mean silent and alone? I don’t get it…rejoice in the fact you are surrounded by others with the same beliefs as you hold! Take a few seconds to acknowledge that!

Think about this…there are locations in the world where I can imagine this ‘ceremony’ goes something like this:

“Turn and make sure you recognize those around you and none are government / Taliban / ISIS / Imperial informants…”

 

[Irishmom2]

I think the thing that some people are missing is that the OP said they call for the greeting and it is immediately followed by the opening hymn. I understand that people want quiet before mass begins to pray, I am not disputing that. But at the point that the 30 seconds of greeting begins, the opening hymn is going to come next. Without the greeting, people would have had 30 seconds more of prayer time? If people need that 30 seconds, again, maybe they should come a bit earlier. By 30 seconds I guess.

 

[pnewton]

I think the thing that some people are missing is that the OP said they call for the greeting and it is immediately followed by the opening hymn. I understand that people want quiet before mass begins to pray, I am not disputing that. But at the point that the 30 seconds of greeting begins, the opening hymn is going to come next. Without the greeting, people would have had 30 seconds more of prayer time? If people need that 30 seconds, again, maybe they should come a bit earlier. By 30 seconds I guess.

That’s what I don’t get. Are people praying through the entrance? I have seen, and done, announcements at the beginning of Mass, including who the Mass is being offered for, and sometime introduce a new Mass part, maybe the Psalm. I have never heard any one say that it “interrupts their prayer.” There is more than private prayer that some people need at times to prepare for Mass. The needs of others may mean that these things are needed. Besides, I do not know that it is right to call it an interruption if it occurs right before Mass. It is more the ending of private time, just as if the priest started one minute earlier.

I get the desire to be by oneself that some people feel, or even everyone feels at some time. I think this “interruption” thing is a little thin. Just show up five, or even ten minutes before Mass.

 

[pnewton]

What would be wrong if we returned to a balance of what was described by JimG?

I do not think this is really a question of right or wrong. It is a matter of what the priest thinks is best for the majority in the parish.

 

[EasterJoy]

There is also a dualistic thinking here that says any sort of social interaction conflicts with the sanctify of the Mass. I have even seen it referred to as a loss of value of the sacred. However, this is not an either/or situation, any more than a great homily takes away from holiness of the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

A parish can be warm, friendly, social and still maintain a holiness and beauty during Mass.

No, this is not about being social. It is about whether this particular method actually does bring about an increase in warmth and whether it actually facilitates a real social connection between those present or whether it is experienced as a well-meant but ultimately artificial and ill-timed gimmick.

I don’t see why anyone would automatically jump to the conclusion that a parishioner would have to be antisocial to conclude that it is the latter. I’ve tried this; I don’t think this method achieves the intended result. I think it achieves little that is good while working counter to another desirable end.

If a greeting is thought desirable, I’d honestly pair it with a necessary intrusion on recollection that has unfortunately become indispensable: that is, the reminder to turn the sound off on all electronic devices that might go off during Mass. Without that, it can almost be guaranteed that somebody’s cell phone is going to ring during Mass. That definitely does nothing for the prayerful atmosphere, particularly since phones can be depended upon to go off at the worst possible time.

 

[Operalan]

Being an introvert does not give one a pass to be rude.
My husband is one of the most introverted people I know, yet even he will say good morning to the person next to him in the pew.

Mass, as I have said before, is a communal event. I just cannot believe that moving out of one’s comfort zone to say hello to one’s fellow worshipers would be so contentious. I really do weep for humanity.

Once again—we ALREADY have that time built into the liturgy–at the Sign of Peace. Having the greetings happen twice within 40 minutes or so is redundant and takes away from when it comes in the liturgy.

 

[Mark121359]

**Once again—we ALREADY have that time built into the liturgy–at the Sign of Peace. ** Having the greetings happen twice within 40 minutes or so is redundant and takes away from when it comes in the liturgy.

Exactly! And a quick google search will show you that not everybody is nuts about that! In that last link below, the author makes a good case that in it’s current placement in the Mass, the sign of peace should be moved or removed.

Peace Be With You
How the sign of peace disturbs me
The Liturgical “Sign of Peace”: Move or Remove?

Peace, Mark

 

[Erikaspirit16]

I do not have a problem with greeting people at church or wishing the sign of peace to them or designating some official greeters to stand at the church doors saying “good morning, welcome to St. Patrick’s” or whatever.

However, the Mercy campaign as I see it is for forgiving people their sins and welcoming them back to practicing their faith - not for welcoming them to a social hour. I returned to very active practice of my faith as a direct result of the Year of Mercy. I read about it and the Holy Spirit inspired me to go take advantage of it and get myself “right with God”.

For various reasons I have almost always attended Mass alone during my entire adult life and I go to a lot of different Catholic churches due to my travel schedule and work schedule. I do not myself need someone welcoming me at the door in order to show God’s mercy or “welcome me back” to the Church. In fact I was a bit self-conscious about the whole business of getting myself confessed and regularly attending and I wanted to just blend in and go about my business of praying and seeing Jesus with as little fanfare as possible. And I would just hate the idea of someone assuming that I, walking into a strange church alone, was some lonely single soul who needed a big “welcome”. I also would wonder about the motives of anyone who was coming back to the Church expecting a social welcome - it’s not about that.

Please understand that while these greetings and welcomes may serve the needs of a segment of attendees, it’s not the case that everybody walking into a church alone is lonely and wants to be greeted or “welcomed”. And some of the people who would like to feel more welcome may even be attending as a couple or even as part of a group.

You have made a good point, and I will try to elaborate. When I enter my own house, no one “welcomes” me; no one tells me I have to introduce myself; no one sees me as “lonely” in my own house. The church–any Catholic church in the world–is my home. The idea that I have to be “welcomed” into my own home is repugnant. To do so is to say to me “This is my church. You are a stranger here. You are welcome, but always keep in mind this is my church, not yours.” I understand that this is not the message that “greeters” may intend; but the “greeters” and those who support them also have to understand that this is how their message is received by a sizable proportion of the population. We are not “wrong” or “stupid” or “unsocial” for thinking this way.

 

[truetofaith]

Before Communion the priest says “let’s offer each other a sign of peace.” He doesn’t say shake hands. A nod of the head and a smile would be more sanitary.

 

[Irishmom2]

The church–any Catholic church in the world–is my home. The idea that I have to be “welcomed” into my own home is repugnant. To do so is to say to me “This is my church. You are a stranger here. You are welcome, but always keep in mind this is my church, not yours.” .

I really don’t know where any of this ownership talk comes from.

No one is saying any of those things, except in your mind. Repugnant? That’s a pretty intense word.

When your family comes home, or you go to your relatives homes, do they not greet you and say hello? I doubt they are thinking “this is **my **house. You are a stranger here. You are welcome, but always keep in mind this is **my **home.”

So I am not sure where all of that comes from.

 

[Book_Worm]

But when I enter my home, any family members who are there greet me. I’ve never been to a Catholic Church in which a person entering a pew has been given a smile or a head nod in greeting, unless they are know each other, most often from non-church activities.

I’ve been going to daily Mass since I retired eight years ago. In those eight years, two people have spoken to me. Two.

This thread has made me realize that Catholics don’t have a reputation for being unwelcoming and stand-offish. They are unwelcoming and stand-offish.

In my entire, large Catholic family my DD is the only one in her generation who still practices the faith. And when the others talk about their new religious affiliations, they always describe how much they enjoy being part of a “church family” and how important it is to them. People have a basic need for community and fellowship.

The Mass is a communal worship service, not a private prayer. How can one be part of a community gathered to worship as a family when the members don’t even make eye contact with those around them?

During the Mass we call to mind the sacrifice Jesus made for us, giving his life for our salvation. Is a smile, a nod, a handshake that makes others feel welcome too much of a sacrifice for us to make?

 

[Millie123]

Before Communion the priest says “let’s offer each other a sign of peace.” He doesn’t say shake hands. A nod of the head and a smile would be more sanitary.

Ehhh…sanitation, smanitation…we’re Catholics, we drink from the same cup during communion.
Also many of us receive communion on the tongue. Which means that there have been a few instances when a strangers fingers has touched my tongue.

 

[Irishmom2]

I’ve never been to a Catholic Church in which a person entering a pew has been given a smile or a head nod in greeting, unless they are know each other, most often from non-church activities.

I’ve been going to daily Mass since I retired eight years ago. In those eight years, two people have spoken to me. Two.

This thread has made me realize that Catholics don’t have a reputation for being unwelcoming and stand-offish. They are unwelcoming and stand-offish.

I am sorry this has been your experience, but this is not true for all Catholic Churches. I have had the opposite experience. I have never been to a church where someone did not smile, nod or offer to move or let me pass by upon entering a pew.

In the eight years that you have attended daily mass, have you attempted speaking to anyone or do you wait for others to speak first?

As a Catholic, I am a little offended that you paint all Catholics with the brush of your experiences, because they are not true for everyone. And to say we are unwelcoming and stand-offish is very uncharitable.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

But when I enter my home, any family members who are there greet me. I’ve never been to a Catholic Church in which a person entering a pew has been given a smile or a head nod in greeting, unless they are know each other, most often from non-church activities.

I’ve been going to daily Mass since I retired eight years ago. In those eight years, two people have spoken to me. Two.

This thread has made me realize that Catholics don’t have a reputation for being unwelcoming and stand-offish. They are unwelcoming and stand-offish.

In my entire, large Catholic family my DD is the only one in her generation who still practices the faith. And when the others talk about their new religious affiliations, they always describe how much they enjoy being part of a “church family” and how important it is to them. People have a basic need for community and fellowship.

The Mass is a communal worship service, not a private prayer. How can one be part of a community gathered to worship as a family when the members don’t even make eye contact with those around them?

During the Mass we call to mind the sacrifice Jesus made for us, giving his life for our salvation. Is a smile, a nod, a handshake that makes others feel welcome too much of a sacrifice for us to make?

I can relate to this. In order to stay Catholic I have had to really lower my expectations of parish churches, now I only expect the sacraments and I am a lot happier. The temptation to just go to my husbands non-denominational where we have friends is always there and I sometimes find the fact that I have to practice the Catholic faith alone really daunting.

Maybe it’s a sign of the times but I think community is something you have to be very intentional about.

 

[EasterJoy]

Before Communion the priest says “let’s offer each other a sign of peace.” He doesn’t say shake hands. A nod of the head and a smile would be more sanitary.

I’m not squeamish about shaking hands with someone when we’re going to be drinking out of the same vessel in a few minutes. I guess I assume that those who have health reasons to avoid a communion chalice will also refrain from skin-to-skin contact, as well. Perhaps that is too optimistic of me?