Wyoming Priest Denies Communion to Lesbian Activist Couple “Married” in Canada

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Gnosis said:
What does Christianity do with people who refuse to renounce their so called sin, especially when they can not point to the manners in which that sin is expressing itself negatively in their lives? How can we ask them to continue to call it sin when its not cutting themselves off from others and God expect in a hypothetical realm in which its so-called consequences are never felt here in the world.
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  1. What you infer here is that each individual decides whether something is a sin or not, rather than relying on the teaching of the Church.
  2. One of the consequences of grave sin is cutting off communion with God.
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CCC:
The punishments of sin
[1472](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1472.htm’)😉 To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.84
[1473](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/1473.htm’)😉 The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains. While patiently bearing sufferings and trials of all kinds and, when the day comes, serenely facing death, the Christian must strive to accept this temporal punishment of sin as a grace. He should strive by works of mercy and charity, as well as by prayer and the various practices of penance, to put off completely the “old man” and to put on the "new man."85
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We all fall short of our call to holiness - that’s why Christ gave us the sacrament of Confession.
 
Gnosis said:
This is why I feel this situation has the potential to blaspheme the Christian faith. Christ died for all, he broke his body and shed his blood for an unworthy people. All of us who step up to the cross to recieve God through him are unworthy of Him, how can we possibly be too sinful to recieve it when it is recieved for the sake of purifying sin?
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No one is worthy, but we are made so when we repent of our wrongdoing and follow Christ.

And that is the key, to repent of our wrongdoing. This couple is making no effort at all to repent and change their ways. In fact, they are doing just the opposite. They are actively promoting a path AWAY from Christ.
What does Christianity do with people who refuse to renounce their so called sin, especially when they can not point to the manners in which that sin is expressing itself negatively in their lives? How can we ask them to continue to call it sin when its not cutting themselves off from others and God expect in a hypothetical realm in which its so-called consequences are never felt here in the world.
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The issue is considerably more gray then most would like to portray it.
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ALL sin negatively effects all of Creation. There is no such thing a sin anywhere by anyone that does not affect me.

It was the entry of sin that caused the entry of sickness and death in the world. When a mortal sin is committed, the person loses Grace, they lose the gifts of Faith, Hope and Charity. Are you honeslty claiming that a lack of Hope or a lack of Charity in the world does not affect me personally?

Do you person believe that there is already enough Charity in the world today, that we could not encourage more to happen?

Is that not personal enough?
 
So me being a homosexual is stopping the flow of faith, hope and charity?

I don’t know how you can make this connection. Calling something bad and evil over and over again and defying casual relations by pretending its yielding negative effects doesn’t accomplish anything.
 
Gnosis said:
So me being a homosexual is stopping the flow of faith, hope and charity?
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No, having homosexual inclinations does not stop the theological virtues. ACTING UPON THEM WILL!

That is true for any sin, especially mortal ones.
I don’t know how you can make this connection. Calling something bad and evil over and over again and defying casual relations by pretending its yielding negative effects doesn’t accomplish anything.
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The Theological Virutes (Faith, Hope and Charity) are Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not reside in those who choose to remain in a state of mortal sin. Therefore the Gifts leave as well.
 
The Theological Virutes (Faith, Hope and Charity) are Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not reside in those who choose to remain in a state of mortal sin. Therefore the Gifts leave as well.
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Sounds nice, but I have never before felt so full of God and his virtues since I came out as gay and accepted that identity. Quite simply, the acceptance of my sexuality has had consequences for my spirituality- uplifting consequences in which Faith, Hope and Charity have manifested themselves in me as never before. I have become a more authentic human being and a more authentic traverser in the faith.

You can fantasize that I’m lying- I’m sure you will. Or perhaps you’ll convince yourself that I’m delusional, which you’ve probably already done.

But I’ll speak the truth anyways, I “practice” my sexuality AND I am close to God who rarely leaves my thoughts and constantly partakes in my everyday living. Its hardly the absence of grace, hope, faith and charity that I’ve been warned of.
 
Doesn’t embracing and celebrating what the Church has consistently taught is a mortal sin give you pause at all?

If the Church is incorrect about this teaching, why do you believe the rest of her teaching?

You might want to give Theology of the Body by John Paul II a read, or one of the books by Christopher West explaining it.
Gnosis said:
Sounds nice, but I have never before felt so full of God and his virtues since I came out as gay and accepted that identity. Quite simply, the acceptance of my sexuality has had consequences for my spirituality- uplifting consequences in which Faith, Hope and Charity have manifested themselves in me as never before. I have become a more authentic human being and a more authentic traverser in the faith.

You can fantasize that I’m lying- I’m sure you will. Or perhaps you’ll convince yourself that I’m delusional, which you’ve probably already done.

But I’ll speak the truth anyways, I “practice” my sexuality AND I am close to God who rarely leaves my thoughts and constantly partakes in my everyday living. Its hardly the absence of grace, hope, faith and charity that I’ve been warned of.
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Gnosis said:
Sounds nice, but I have never before felt so full of God and his virtues since I came out as gay and accepted that identity. Quite simply, the acceptance of my sexuality has had consequences for my spirituality- uplifting consequences in which Faith, Hope and Charity have manifested themselves in me as never before. I have become a more authentic human being and a more authentic traverser in the faith.
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No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. - 2 Corinthians 11:14-15
But I’ll speak the truth anyways, I “practice” my sexuality AND I am close to God who rarely leaves my thoughts and constantly partakes in my everyday living. Its hardly the absence of grace, hope, faith and charity that I’ve been warned of.
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***Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. - Isaiah 5:20 ***

Visit: couragerc.net/
The following five goals of Courage were created by the members themselves, when Courage was founded. The goals are read at the start of each meeting and each member is called to practice them in daily life.

  1. *]Live chaste lives in accordance with the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching on homosexuality. (Chastity)

    *]Dedicate ones life to Christ through service to others, spiritual reading, prayer, meditation, individual spiritual direction, frequent attendance at Mass, and the frequent reception of the sacraments of Reconciliation and Holy Eucharist. (Prayer and Dedication)

    *]Foster a spirit of fellowship in which all may share thoughts and experiences, and so ensure that no one will have to face the problems of homosexuality alone. (Fellowship)

    *]Be mindful of the truth that chaste friendships are not only possible but necessary in a chaste Christian life and in doing so provide encouragement to one another in forming and sustaining them. **(Support) **

    *]Live lives that may serve as good examples to others. (Good Example)
 
Just because something feels good doen’t make it holy. Don’t be fooled; God’s own Son suffered the weaknesses of our fallen nature, what makes you think you don’t have to? Having what we want is exactly what Satan tempted Jesus with, and He chose to abstain out of obedience to the Father. We are called to do the same, despite our human nature. I pray for you to be opened and thus, freed.
 
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
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So since you seem to be saying we do not have the power to discern, how do we know that Jesus himself wasn’t the prince of demons and the every night you are not praying to the devil in hell?

Would you not know, save if you had a Church to tell you what you were praying too?
 
Gnosis said:
So since you seem to be saying we do not have the power to discern, how do we know that Jesus himself wasn’t the prince of demons and the every night you are not praying to the devil in hell?

Would you not know, save if you had a Church to tell you what you were praying too?
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Our “power” to discern can be muddled when we persist in living in a state of sin. C.S. Lewis said that when one drinks to excess, they can’t know what a drunkard they are. It is only after one sobers up and lives for a time in a this state that one can truly understand the disaster of intoxication. The same applies to sin. It is impossible for the grace of the Holy Spirit to fully exist in a soul corrupted with sin. Therefore, the conscience itself becomes twisted and convinces the sinner that all is well and that somehow God has condoned their behaviors. If one never gets “sober”, one will never comprehend how drunk they’ve been.

BTW: Christ has told us who we should pray to. And He left behind His Church to continue the mission.
 
Gnosis said:
Sounds nice, but I have never before felt so full of God and his virtues since I came out as gay and accepted that identity. Quite simply, the acceptance of my sexuality has had consequences for my spirituality- uplifting consequences in which Faith, Hope and Charity have manifested themselves in me as never before. I have become a more authentic human being and a more authentic traverser in the faith.

You can fantasize that I’m lying- I’m sure you will. Or perhaps you’ll convince yourself that I’m delusional, which you’ve probably already done.

But I’ll speak the truth anyways, I “practice” my sexuality AND I am close to God who rarely leaves my thoughts and constantly partakes in my everyday living. Its hardly the absence of grace, hope, faith and charity that I’ve been warned of.
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Regardless of how you feel, God is VERY CLEAR on this issue… and persisting in it, is directly disobeying God. What do you do with the passages that have been quoted to you in which God so clearly condemns acts of homosexuality? Do they simply not apply to you?

Or do you not believe that the Bible is the inspired, inerrant word of God?
 
Brian_C said:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070405/ap_on_re_us/lesbians_communion_1

I don’t know what’s more distressing. That the reporter and the couple seem so surprised or the reasoning the parish priest used. Seems he was perfectly fine administering communion to them, knowing they were in grave sin, until they flaunted it publicly. :rolleyes:😦
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Well, the priest had no way of knowing that they WERE in grave sin until they admitted it publicly. For all he knew before they went public, they were female roommates, or maybe two lesbians living chastely together. He didn’t presume to judge their state of mortal sin because he wasn’t privy to their private, day-to-day behavior.

Once the two women made a public declaration of their state of mortal sin, including testifying to Congress and appearing the local newspaper after Ash Wednesday, declaring that they were a “married” and active same-sex couple, the priest took appropriate action to avoid scandal to the faithful.
 
The article gave me the impression it was an open secret that the parish was willing to tolerate until it embarassed them publicly. But, you know how newspaper articles can be. I’ve been misquoted and misconstrued so many times that I am hesitate to even talk to the media anymore…😛
 
Brian_C said:
The article gave me the impression it was an open secret that the parish was willing to tolerate until it embarassed them publicly. But, you know how newspaper articles can be. I’ve been misquoted and misconstrued so many times that I am hesitate to even talk to the media anymore…😛
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Actually, it just might be that case. Canon Law allows for the refusal of Holy Communion when the sin is ‘manifest’, that is publically known.

A person could be a private sinner, or their sin be known by just a few, and a priest could not refuse them Communion. But once the sin becomes publically known, the priest then has that right (if not obligation)
 
Brendan said:
Actually, it just might be that case. Canon Law allows for the refusal of Holy Communion when the sin is ‘manifest’, that is publically known.

A person could be a private sinner, or their sin be known by just a few, and a priest could not refuse them Communion. But once the sin becomes publically known, the priest then has that right (if not obligation)
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Interesting! Is that just a judgement call by the priest as to their state of grace or is that merely there to shield the priest?
 
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