Yet another hand-holding poll during the Our Father

[Cristiano]

there was another poll on this topic, so i wanted to be a bit more specific. the other thread currently going right now on this issue brings up the difference between most people not having a problem with what family members do vs the sense that this is some type of new custom that we ALL must take part in.

i agree with advocatus fidei 100%.

and as a woman that goes to Mass by myself i do not want strange men grabbing my hand. it makes me extremely uncomfortable. i like shaking hands during the sign of peace, but for the rest of Mass i want to be left alone undisturbed.

peace.

I understand what you say. What I am saying is that I think that there is a lot of hypocrisy if we are willing to hold the hands of family members but not the hands of people that we do not know. Independent of my theological pick I see only two possibilities: 1- You do not hold hands because of the vertical relationship during the Mass or 2- You hold hands because of a physical sense of communion among the faithfuls. If it is pick #1 nobody is allowed to hold hands and if it pick #2 all the Christians are there in communion, and I do not see how can we reject some of them. Aren’t they our brothers and sisters in Christ?

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

At other churches, no one holds hands… You are given the evil eye if you even extend your hand and offer it.

There was a study done at our church to gather information about our parish community just prior to the merger of four parishes.

There was an unfortunate conclusion drawn regarding persons who prefer not to hold hands during the Lord’s prayer. The conclusion was that those who prefer not to hold hands were somehow reluctant to do so because they didn’t want to unite as a parish. That was an unfortunate conclusion.

It was apparent that the person that came to that conclusion was a “hand holder advocate” and didn’t understand why it is preferred by many (myself included) to concentrate on this prayer to the Father at that time of the Mass.

This issue ought not be as divisive as it is. If both sides could at least see the other’s perspective without blaming the other for being ignorant they would realize that they themselves are being ignorant of the issues (this goes for both the pro- and con- hand holding “factions”).

 

[Cristiano]

There was a*** study ***done at our church to gather information about our parish community just prior to the merger of four parishes.

There was an unfortunate conclusion drawn regarding persons who prefer not to hold hands during the Lord’s prayer. The conclusion was that those who prefer not to hold hands were somehow reluctant to do so because they didn’t want to unite as a parish. That was an unfortunate conclusion.

It was apparent that the person that came to that conclusion was a “hand holder advocate” and didn’t understand why it is preferred by many (myself included) to concentrate on this prayer to the Father at that time of the Mass.

This issue ought not be as divisive as it is. If both sides could at least see the other’s perspective without blaming the other for being ignorant they would realize that they themselves are being ignorant of the issues (this goes for both the pro- and con- hand holding “factions”).

I am always skeptical of those studies. I have seen a few done at my parish for different reasons. Usually the questions are very biased and they are in the form of Yes, because… or NO, because… Often people like to mix open and closed questions to bias the results. I have seen people that do not hold hands during Mass, and these are the same people that hug everybody at the parish breakfast after Mass. Does my statement imply that all the non hand holders are always friendly and warm to others? No, it is just anecdotal evidence.

 

[marci]

Adults holding the hands of strangers is just weird, furthermore most people doing it feel stupid and self concious which prevents prayer. On top of that it is a unwanted intrusion and disrespectful to my person, I expect to be able to worship God without random strangers grabbing hold of me.

Furthermore it shifts the focus during the Our Father from God to we the people holding hands as one.

It is an awful practice that makes going to mass an uncomfortable social experience.

I agree completely. I can’t stand the hand holding. It makes me so uncomfortable that I actually start to stress out about it minutes before the Our Father is actually said. Then, rather than focusing on the Prayer, all I can think about is this stranger’s clammy hand, (or worse, my clammy hand) and how I can’t wait to let go.

 

[jen_fla]

I understand what you say. What I am saying is that I think that there is a lot of hypocrisy if we are willing to hold the hands of family members but not the hands of people that we do not know. Independent of my theological pick I see only two possibilities: 1- You do not hold hands because of the vertical relationship during the Mass or 2- You hold hands because of a physical sense of communion among the faithfuls. If it is pick #1 nobody is allowed to hold hands and if it pick #2 all the Christians are there in communion, and I do not see how can we reject some of them. Aren’t they our brothers and sisters in Christ?

sure we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, but that doesn’t change the fact that if my mother gives me a kiss on the cheek during the sign of peace it’s obviously far more appropriate than if a stranger did it. and as for holding hands, well to be honest, i do not want my family holding my hands either. i find the whole thing silly and it makes me feel like i’m under some tent and somebody’s about to start screaming from the pulpit.

thing is if you add the factor of how this is a total stranger holding my hand, that just brings this to a level 2 of uncomfortableness. i have been assaulted by men and i do not want anybody touching me, unless i have decided that i am comfortable with that person and in order for me to be comfortable with that person i must know them.

now let’s say i got to know the person and holding their hand doesn’t bother me as much, all that would do is bring it back down to a level 1 of feeling silly, uncomfortable and distracted.

once my mom took my hand and i gave her a funny face and said no. she grabbed it anyway because i guess every was doing it, but i know she doesn’t like it either. afterwards i went on about how it looked like we were going to do the wave and how undignified it all was so now on those moments when we go to Mass together it is hard for us both to not start giggling during that part.

 

[whm]

It is not called for as part of the should not be added. I prefer not to do it. I find that not holding hands doesn’t seem to offend anybody even though everyone else is doing it. I do smile and shake hands during the sign of peace, but I generally will not turn away from the alter.

 

[Paiti]

J.M.J. A.M.D.G.

While I quite understand the concept of unity within a congregation, I am uncomfortable holding hands with others, and for me, it breaks up the flow of the Mass. I believe the practice should be discouraged in all parishes because no one should ever be made to feel anxiety during Mass.

 

[Cristiano]

sure we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, but that doesn’t change the fact that if my mother gives me a kiss on the cheek during the sign of peace it’s obviously far more appropriate than if a stranger did it. and as for holding hands, well to be honest, i do not want my family holding my hands either. i find the whole thing silly and it makes me feel like i’m under some tent and somebody’s about to start screaming from the pulpit.

thing is if you add the factor of how this is a total stranger holding my hand, that just brings this to a level 2 of uncomfortableness. i have been assaulted by men and i do not want anybody touching me, unless i have decided that i am comfortable with that person and in order for me to be comfortable with that person i must know them.

now let’s say i got to know the person and holding their hand doesn’t bother me as much, all that would do is bring it back down to a level 1 of feeling silly, uncomfortable and distracted.

once my mom took my hand and i gave her a funny face and said no. she grabbed it anyway because i guess every was doing it, but i know she doesn’t like it either. afterwards i went on about how it looked like we were going to do the wave and how undignified it all was so now on those moments when we go to Mass together it is hard for us both to not start giggling during that part.

I understand completely where you come from, and it is a real pity how the behavior of a few people will affect how we react to the rest of them. I was not saying that you have to hold hands with people, and your behavior seems a consistent one of not holding hands. I do not see anything wrong with that, I do the same.

 

[jen_fla]

J.M.J. A.M.D.G.

While I quite understand the concept of unity within a congregation, I am uncomfortable holding hands with others, and for me, it breaks up the flow of the Mass. I believe the practice should be discouraged in all parishes because no one should ever be made to feel anxiety during Mass.

 

[BernadetteM]

My question is why hold hands during the Our Father? What really is the point? It reminds me of a protestant service. The same thing with the Peace. These people might extend their hands during Mass, but do they come up to you after Mass and want to get to know you? It is just a useless gesture.

The priest gives the sign of Peace to the whole congregation and we respond. That is liturgical, but to me breaking the reverence of the Mass by these gestures take your mind off of worshiping.

I have seen priests running up and down the aisles shaking hands and people also jumping across aisles to shake someone’s hand. If a person is sincere they should be going up to people, especially ones they don’t know after Mass and greet them and welcome them. This shows warmth and that your willing to actually get to know another person.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[jen_fla]

I understand completely where you come from, and it is a real pity how the behavior of a few people will affect how we react to the rest of them. I was not saying that you have to hold hands with people, and your behavior seems a consistent one of not holding hands. I do not see anything wrong with that, I do the same.

you’d be surprised at the number of women that have been assaulted or harassed by men in one way or another. of course woman have been guilty as well, but in my life it’s usually the men bothering me. it is a shame and while i’m intellectually aware that not all men are like this, emotionally i am a mess.

and yes, it causes me great anxiety to have to hold hands with a stranger. it also annoys me greatly when some guy will come and sit close to me when there is plenty of room to spread out on the pew.

peace.

 

[jen_fla]

My question is why hold hands during the Our Father? What really is the point? It reminds me of a protestant service. The same thing with the Peace. These people might extend their hands during Mass, but do they come up to you after Mass and want to get to know you? It is just a useless gesture.

The priest gives the sign of Peace to the whole congregation and we respond. That is liturgical, but to me breaking the reverence of the Mass by these gestures take your mind off of worshiping.

I have seen priests running up and down the aisles shaking hands and people also jumping across aisles to shake someone’s hand. If a person is sincere they should be going up to people, especially ones they don’t know after Mass and greet them and welcome them. This shows warmth and that your willing to actually get to know another person.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

although the sign of peace always makes me smile and feel joy, i agree with you. several of us have mentioned how this new custom reminds us of a protestant service although it does look like the practice came from AA, but who knows?

i mentioned this on the other thread, but pictures really make the point. i would like to see the CC go in the first direction, lest we might head towards the latter.

 

[Cristiano]

you’d be surprised at the number of women that have been assaulted or harassed by men in one way or another. of course woman have been guilty as well, but in my life it’s usually the men bothering me. it is a shame and while i’m intellectually aware that not all men are like this, emotionally i am a mess.

and yes, it causes me great anxiety to have to hold hands with a stranger. it also annoys me greatly when some guy will come and sit close to me when there is plenty of room to spread out on the pew.

peace.

Honestly I would not be surprised. I have seen how nasty and sneaky men can be with their falsely innocent behaviors. I am not surprised at all that you have anxieties due to that, it is a natural defense mechanism that comes from experience. I always tell my wife to be open minded and forgiving, but I also tell her not to disregard her gut feelings because they come from experience.

Independently of men or women I am also bothered when someone sits close to me when there is plenty of room available. That is especially true at mass where I consider people a source of distraction from my focus on God. The only ones that I accept are children, even the screaming ones because they are not supposed to know better.

 

[IntegraCatholic]

Why are all these discussions taking place in the Traditional Catholicism forum? There is no hand-holding during the Our Father at the traditional Mass. It was a Protestant invention that has made its way into the NO in certain places.

 

[roadsend]

although the sign of peace always makes me smile and feel joy, i agree with you. several of us have mentioned how this new custom reminds us of a protestant service although it does look like the practice came from AA, but who knows?

i mentioned this on the other thread, but pictures really make the point. i would like to see the CC go in the first direction, lest we might head towards the latter.

The black and white photo isn’t a Catholic Church, is it?

 

[The_Reginator]

Why are all these discussions taking place in the Traditional Catholicism forum? There is no hand-holding during the Our Father at the traditional Mass. It was a Protestant invention that has made its way into the NO in certain places.

This topic has been banned on the Liturgy and Sacraments forum.
Now there are two active threads (that I’m aware of) in this forum. People really seem concerned, one way or another.

 

[Beachcomber]

I really don’t care to hold hands, but if others feel they need to, that’s their business. I always thought that this hand-holding during the Our Father was originally from Protestant churches that somehow migrated into the Church.

 

[The_Reginator]

The priest gives the sign of Peace to the whole congregation and we respond. That is liturgical, but to me breaking the reverence of the Mass by these gestures take your mind off of worshiping.

 

[ProVobis]

People really seem concerned, one way or another.

Unnecessarily so, because it’s not a part of the liturgy, nor is it a sacrament, nor is it traditional.

 

[rben20]

Honestly, I don’t see the big deal in quarreling over something so petty. If people want to hold hands either hold their hand or don’t. MOVE ON! Why is their a need to poll a trivial thing when in the end it doesn’t even matter? What matters is the PRAYER. That’s where your focus needs to be.

I flat refuse to hold hands at the Pater Noster at the local or any OF parish. Which is why I try to make it to the EF masses.

Are you serious? Pardon if I offend you or anybody else, but really…your basing your entire Sunday worship on one to two minutes of holding hands. That just seems silly to me as you seem to be missing the entire point of the Mass.