Yet another hand-holding poll during the Our Father

[Miserys_Fence]

We are all one family in Christ are we not? I see nothing wrong with wanting to extend a hand of friendship and togetherness.

I find it ridiculous that one post said that he doesn’t like to be touched at all. I wonder how you would get a job, as most interviews start with a handshake.

First of all, I’m female (or at least that’s what my obstetrician said).

I only said I don’t like to be touched. I didn’t say I would never ever allow anyone to touch me under any circumstances. My doctors touch me as necessary–my being there in the first place is implied consent–and my children sometimes need hugs and kisses and hand-holding. Yes, I shake hands when appropriate, such as a job interview or the Sign of Peace at Mass. As I said, touch is something very personal and I would be just as upset by someone grabbing my hand without permission as I would be if someone kissed me without permission.

I lift my hands during the Our Father. I don’t pay attention to other people, so I have no idea what they do. I have no problem with anyone else holding hands (or not), because I’ll never see it.

I am extremely distrustful and mildly ochlophobic. I prefer people at a distance.

Miz

 

[The_Reginator]

That’s a question that pretty much answers itself, right? I mean, what posture would you have to pick if you wanted to ignore the altar even more – turning around, facing the other way, and twiddling your thumbs? Besides which, why on earth are we saying a prayer to the Father when the Son is right there in front of us? Who came up with that one?

I’m deliberately being a little brash to emphasize that it’s only in the imagination that holding hands during the Our Father is somehow incompatible with the presence of Christ on the altar. You can be for or against the practice (I voted against it in the poll), but this one’s a logical non-sequitur.

The way I see it is that the sacrifice has already taken place and our Lord and Saviour is now exposed on the altar. Then we DO pray to the Father. I personally feel that I am being reverent by bowing my head in His Presence. It’s not a case of ignoring Jesus, just an attempt to worship him ‘in spirit and in truth’. That’s how it is for me anyway.

This is rather an odd thread at times.
We are all doing the same thing (worshipping our Lord) – but with much disagreement among people who largely agree with each other.

 

[jen_fla]

not that i have anything specific in mind. i’m just saying, we shouldn’t be merely dismissing something just on the basis of its origin. in fact, many Christian traditions nowadays comes from pagan origins, we never complain about it. we adopted it and made it our own. so why complain about something that is in part inspired by our own theology?

in regard to the pagans i think it has to do with the time line. the pagans were doing the best they could *at that time. * we incorporated some of their traditions, just so long as they knew the focus of worship was on the one True God and not something false. if the pagans came up with some tradition today of rubbing crystals on their children, we would never take that now and say ok, as Catholics we too are going to rub crystals on our children but in homage to Christ.

i totally agree with you on this. but that just means they still can come up with their own traditions (even if they wouldn’t call it that). if the basis of their practice comes from a truth from the Catholic Church, would it still be Protestant or Catholic?

it would be Catholic, but holding hands as a liturgical gesture is not a Catholic truth or tradition.

my entire point was just that we shouldn’t dismiss something based on its origin. the actions should have their own merits and based on this we decide if they’re worthy of practice within our own Church or not. in the end, maybe every Protestant practice is not worthy to be included in Catholic practice, but the process for evaluating that is through understanding the practice, not by brushing it off simply because of its Protestant origin

i hear what you are saying, but i do want to clarify that we aren’t talking about tradition outside of worship service as i can appreciate diverse traditions from people of all faiths and cultures. but in Mass there is nothing that i am aware of that the protestant tradition has given us or the Orthodox as an improvement. nada.

the Catholic Church sets the bar for the world not the other way around.

peace, choy.

 

[jen_fla]

First of all, I’m female (or at least that’s what my obstetrician said).

I only said I don’t like to be touched. I didn’t say I would never ever allow anyone to touch me under any circumstances. My doctors touch me as necessary–my being there in the first place is implied consent–and my children sometimes need hugs and kisses and hand-holding. Yes, I shake hands when appropriate, such as a job interview or the Sign of Peace at Mass. As I said, touch is something very personal and I would be just as upset by someone grabbing my hand without permission as I would be if someone kissed me without permission.

I lift my hands during the Our Father. I don’t pay attention to other people, so I have no idea what they do. I have no problem with anyone else holding hands (or not), because I’ll never see it.

I am extremely distrustful and mildly ochlophobic. I prefer people at a distance.

Miz

miz, i think you are my long lost twin sister! ha.

 

[jen_fla]

I agree. On top of that: it is VERY uncomfortable to someone with delicate health. If they insist on making this a part of Mass then the priest should acknowledge that some people that don’t shake hands are not being rude but may not be able to be exposed to germs like that! I almost had a cow when I went to the new church and had to deal with this. It IMMEDIATELY took the focus off of God and worship and caused anxiety. ** People need to realize that there are those that look OK but may not really be so on the inside.** On top of dealing with whatever physical thing they face they now have to think about germs at Mass. People with certain things are NOT allowed to use hand sanitizers because they kill off all bacteria - good and bad. Unfortunately, bad bacteria grows faster than good bacteria so it actually makes people more susceptible to further illness!

bolded part: amen, sister! so often we just assume that everyone else thinks and feels (physically and emotionally) the same way we do. thanks for that helpful reminder… all too true!

peace.

 

[choy]

in regard to the pagans i think it has to do with the time line. the pagans were doing the best they could *at that time. * we incorporated some of their traditions, just so long as they knew the focus of worship was on the one True God and not something false. if the pagans came up with some tradition today of rubbing crystals on their children, we would never take that now and say ok, as Catholics we too are going to rub crystals on our children but in homage to Christ.

no, of course not. but we took things like the tree and the wreath during winter, and turned the day of the dead into the day of All Saints, those who are forever living. and like you pointed out, there are silly practices we can throw out, and there are logical practices we can adapt and make our own. same with Protestants. i wouldn’t discount that they might think of something that is worthy of adoption to our faith

it would be Catholic, but holding hands as a liturgical gesture is not a Catholic truth or tradition.

and just to be clear, i’m not implying that

i hear what you are saying, but i do want to clarify that we aren’t talking about tradition outside of worship service as i can appreciate diverse traditions from people of all faiths and cultures. but in Mass there is nothing that i am aware of that the protestant tradition has given us or the Orthodox as an improvement. nada.

the Catholic Church sets the bar for the world not the other way around.

peace, choy.

yes, we set the bar in faith. but that doesn’t mean we can’t learn from others. sometimes its God’s way to humble us. look at Jesus. who would have thought back then that He was the Messiah. they were thinking of a powerful earthly king who would bring political power to the Jewish kingdom. and here came a simple son of a carpenter with no worldly possessions and no desire for worldly power.

another example, my closest relatives where i am right now are protestants. it always amazes me how much money members of their church put in to their missions. one of my cousins went back home to our home country of the Philippines to put up an orphanage, and the people of their church fund that, from construction which cost thousands of dollars, now with daily operations. to tell you the truth its quite humbling to see that. thinking we here have the full truth of the faith, and yet what do we do? we squabble about holding hands during Mass or how we should receive the Eucharist. while they’re putting up thousands of dollars towards an orphanage. sure, the Catholic Church has bigger organizations, but mind you this is a protestant church (Alliance Church, a flavor of Evangelicals) that is pretty much independent from other protestant churches so they don’t get any help in this endeavor from outside their church (or in Catholic terms, their “parish” is independent from any other protestant churches). thats pretty humbling if you ask me. and they may not have the fullness of the truth of the faith, but they sure do pretty good with what they have.

 

[jen_fla]

no, of course not. but we took things like the tree and the wreath during winter, and turned the day of the dead into the day of All Saints, those who are forever living. and like you pointed out, there are silly practices we can throw out, and there are logical practices we can adapt and make our own. same with Protestants. i wouldn’t discount that they might think of something that is worthy of adoption to our faith

and just to be clear, i’m not implying that

yes, we set the bar in faith. but that doesn’t mean we can’t learn from others. sometimes its God’s way to humble us. look at Jesus. who would have thought back then that He was the Messiah. they were thinking of a powerful earthly king who would bring political power to the Jewish kingdom. and here came a simple son of a carpenter with no worldly possessions and no desire for worldly power.

another example, my closest relatives where i am right now are protestants. it always amazes me how much money members of their church put in to their missions. one of my cousins went back home to our home country of the Philippines to put up an orphanage, and the people of their church fund that, from construction which cost thousands of dollars, now with daily operations. to tell you the truth its quite humbling to see that. thinking we here have the full truth of the faith, and yet what do we do? we squabble about holding hands during Mass or how we should receive the Eucharist. while they’re putting up thousands of dollars towards an orphanage. sure, the Catholic Church has bigger organizations, but mind you this is a protestant church (Alliance Church, a flavor of Evangelicals) that is pretty much independent from other protestant churches so they don’t get any help in this endeavor from outside their church (or in Catholic terms, their “parish” is independent from any other protestant churches). thats pretty humbling if you ask me. and they may not have the fullness of the truth of the faith, but they sure do pretty good with what they have.

you’re not going to get any argument from me that many protestants are extremely charitable, but that really has nothing to do with deviations from Holy Mass.

 

[choy]

you’re not going to get any argument from me that many protestants are extremely charitable, but that really has nothing to do with deviations from Holy Mass.

i know. my point is never discount that they can bring something good to our faith, be it within Mass or outside of Mass. while it has never happened in the past, i’m not going to close my mind to it and say it will never happen, ever. God is not limited by the Mass or His Church. if He sees it fit that someone outside His Church bring something into His Church for His greater glory, then it will happen. i’m not saying it will happen, all i’m saying is it can happen if God chooses so

 

[jen_fla]

i know. my point is never discount that they can bring something good to our faith, be it within Mass or outside of Mass. while it has never happened in the past, i’m not going to close my mind to it and say it will never happen, ever. God is not limited by the Mass or His Church. if He sees it fit that someone outside His Church bring something into His Church for His greater glory, then it will happen. i’m not saying it will happen, all i’m saying is it can happen if God chooses so

yes, indeed God can make the impossible, possible!

peace, choy.

 

[Miserys_Fence]

miz, i think you are my long lost twin sister! Ha.

sis!!!

 

[MerryCatholic]

i would prefer not to
but if other people want to do it, they can do it among themselves

i have the same opinion.

 

[ChristianSurfer]

We are all one family in Christ are we not? I see nothing wrong with wanting to extend a hand of friendship and togetherness.

I find it ridiculous that one post said that he doesn’t like to be touched at all. I wonder how you would get a job, as most interviews start with a handshake.

agreed

 

[ProVobis]

We are all one family in Christ are we not? I see nothing wrong with wanting to extend a hand of friendship and togetherness.

I find it ridiculous that one post said that he doesn’t like to be touched at all. I wonder how you would get a job, as most interviews start with a handshake.

Handshakes aren’t considered acts of affection.

 

[ChristianSurfer]

1 Let love of the brethren continue.
2 Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it.

Hebrews 13:1-2

Nothing wrong with showing a little love to strangers, especially to those who are fellow Christians :hug1:

 

[Layman]

Seems a bit queer, at an important point point at the Mass, to introduce something which is distracting and requires a bit of ‘will he, won’t he?’ negotiation between congregants.

It’s in line with the populist changes to the rite, however.

 

[ProVobis]

Hebrews 13:1-2

To everything there is a season, and
a time to every purpose under heaven:

A time to be born, and
a time to die;
a time to plant, and
a time to pluck up
that which is planted;

A time to kill, and
a time to heal;
a time to break down, and
a time to build up;

A time to weep, and
a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and
a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and
a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and
a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and
a time to lose;
a time to keep, and
a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and
a time to sow;
a time to keep silence, and
a time to speak;

A time to love, and
a time to hate;
a time of war; and
a time of peace.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

 

[The_Reginator]

To everything there is a season, and
a time to every purpose under heaven:

a time to embrace, and
a time to refrain from embracing;

Exactly.