Yet another question about Eastern Catholics and Adoration

[Tis_Bearself]

Thank you for the explanation about the icons. I wasn’t aware of that.

 

[Casilda]

For personal prayer, in fact, icons probably play the same role in the East, in many ways, as the reserved Sacrament in the West.

In my hispanic-Roman Catholic upbringing, our homes all contain a prayer corner with our family patron saint, our family Bible and at least a crucifix.

 

[dochawk]

Uhm . . . flagged? Really???

And people ask why so few clergy are here???

As for the lack of a specific devotion I could just as easily ask about the lack of akathists to the Blessed Mother in the west.

The devotions are simply different, and as a practical matter, adopting another in large part displaces an existing practice.

hawk

 

[FatherSebastian]

What’s this about flagged? Was this flagged or deleted? Did I not use the politically correct language? Not sure what the issue is. But sure glad laymen with no degrees in Catholic theology are carefully watching over us and making sure those of us with degrees like an MA from Christendom College and an PhD from Catholic University don’t slip up.

 

[dochawk]

What’s this about flagged? Was this flagged or deleted? Did I not use the politically correct language?

Beats me, Father.

But I had to click on a notice that it was flagged to see it at all.

As of this moment, it’s still hidden as flagged and has to be clicked on to see it . . .

hawk

 

[mrsdizzyd]

FatherSebastian:

What’s this about flagged? Was this flagged or deleted? Did I not use the politically correct language?

Beats me, Father.

But I had to click on a notice that it was flagged to see it at all.

hawk

I, too, am totally baffled as to why that post was flagged. It did not deserve it.

Father, it was a wonderful explanation. You provided lots of points for further study. This is more than I can say for the majority of posts around the forum.

 

[dochawk]

I will note that the moderators seem to do a good job at sorting through the malicious flaggings, and undoing them.

So I actually added a flag with a note that it was improperly flagged. There should really be a “wrongly flagged” or “anti-flag” category (or maybe “meta-flag” for the flag), given the automatic consequences of a certain number of flags . . .

hawk

 

[JRS_831]

I, too, am totally baffled as to why that post was flagged. It did not deserve it.

Father, it was a wonderful explanation. You provided lots of points for further study. This is more than I can say for the majority of posts around the forum.

I agree! It was a very informative post in my opinion.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I didn’t flag Father’s post. I usually will post in a thread when I flag and tell the person why I flagged. The post also contained information related to my question so I wouldn’t be flagging a post that was partially helpful.

However, this thread was in no way created to “reprimand” any other faith about what they do. I am simply asking a question. I don’t know much about Eastern Catholic churches and I am not looking to convert, but I would like to understand better the ones in communion with my church and I have also started attending some services at Eastern Catholic churches. I grew up in an area with many Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches and I have in the past occasionally taken a church tour, watched a presentation or read an article to learn more about them and how they are similar/ different from Western Catholicism.

I myself am not a priest or a theologian. I don’t find my own faith practices to be lacking and I don’t sit around questioning them. Why would I? I feel like they’re bringing me closer to Jesus. I don’t expect Eastern Catholics to sit around questioning their own traditional practices either, rather I just figure they have an explanation for why they (for example) do not engage in exposition/ benediction, or that they focus on something else instead, and some of the posts have confirmed that indeed this is the case.

Having a priest out of the blue take such an argumentative tone and go on about what Roman Catholics should focus on (stuff that I as Jane Pewsitter have zero control over or influence on within the Church) and talk about “reprimanding” other faiths is completely out of the ballpark of what this thread is about. It also makes me less likely to ask a question about Eastern Catholicism again on here for fear of getting lectured like I am putting down someone else’s faith and have my own faith put down in return. Other people have provided answers in a considerably more neutral or modulated way, which is more what I was looking for as someone who just wants to understand my neighbors’ practices better.

Perhaps this is why others flagged the post. Just my hypothesis.

I noted in reading past threads on this topic before I started a new one, that some of the past ones quickly devolved into arguments of this nature and I was hoping to avoid it here. I’m not big on arguments. I just want to have calm discussions. Hence my earlier post.

 

[babochka]

For personal prayer, in fact, icons probably play the same role in the East, in many ways, as the reserved Sacrament in the West.

I was thinking the same thing, but I didn’t quite know how to articulate it.

@Tis_Bearself, I sometimes go to adoration at a local Latin Rite Parish. They have 24 hour adoration and a friend sometimes asks me to substitute for her during her Holy Hour. Like others in this thread, I have understood Eucharistic Adoration to include the exposition of the Blessed Sacrament. I find it very peaceful to be able to spend time alone in the quiet Chapel in prayer, but I have never understood why it is treated differently whether The Host is in the Tabernacle or exposed. Why are the rules different? For example, if the Eucharist is in the Tabernacle, the appropriate gesture is to genuflect on one knee. If the host is exposed, then it is appropriate to use both knees. For me, I don’t feel the presence of Christ any more strongly because he is exposed to my view. But, of course he is there and my mind is appropriately aware of that. But it pales in comparison to receiving him, which is what the purpose of the Eucharistic presence is.

While the Eucharist is reserved in Eastern Churches primarily for the sick, it is still stored in a Tabernacle, with dignity befitting Christ himself and always treated with extreme reverence. So yes, in that way we do practice Eucharistic Adoration, it’s just that it is generally not the focal point for prayer outside of the Divine Liturgy.

Which brings me back to what @ByzKat was saying… I was at my parish yesterday afternoon and had a few minutes to go up to the church and spend some time in prayer. When I reverenced the icon, I lingered on the images, but I was soon drawn to one of the icons on the wall. It was the icon of Extreme Humility. It drew me to Christ and became the focal point for my few minutes of prayer. It is always a different experience praying in church than at home or anywhere else and perhaps that is because of the presence of Christ in the Tabernacle. But it was the icon that provided the focal point for my prayer.

I sincerely hope that you are not dissuaded from asking questions about Eastern Catholicism because of this thread. Please understand that we often get defensive because we so often find our practices criticized in the West for somehow being insufficient. Please forgive us if our defensiveness has put you off. I think your question was very respectfully and carefully phrased.

 

[babochka]

I will note that the moderators seem to do a good job at sorting through the malicious flaggings, and undoing them.

hawk

I have also noticed this.

It is entirely possible that the post was flagged in error, as well. My phone has done some pretty amazing things while sitting in my pocket.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thank you for your detailed and kind response, babochka.

I would not ask a question with the goal of criticizing a practice and least of all my fellow Catholics in communion with Rome. To the extent I have had difficulties with other faiths, it’s primarily with a handful of the Protestant sects, also with non-Catholic people who come onto this forum seemingly with the goal of criticizing Catholics generally. They claim to be here to learn, but then they dump on the Church in almost every post.
I don’t want to be “that guy”.

I will try to address your question below - note that this is coming from a lay perspective, so a trained theologian or priest may have some deeper answer…

I have never understood why it is treated differently whether The Host is in the Tabernacle or exposed. Why are the rules different? For example, if the Eucharist is in the Tabernacle, the appropriate gesture is to genuflect on one knee. If the host is exposed, then it is appropriate to use both knees. For me, I don’t feel the presence of Christ any more strongly because he is exposed to my view.

The official church rule actually isn’t different any more since 1973, as I understand it.
In 1973 the rule was changed so you genuflect on one knee regardless of whether Jesus is in the tabernacle or exposed.
Perhaps this was in view of what you said, recognizing that Jesus is equally present either way.

I still follow the rule of two knees for an exposed Host and 1 knee for Host in tabernacle, because

• that’s how I was taught as a child and I like to keep my old practices
• to me, it seems like Jesus being visible, in that I can look upon a Host without being struck down dead like people were in the Old Testament if they saw God (unless perhaps they were a very special prophet or priest who had done all the correct preparation), is a very special thing and deserves some extra recognition.

But those are just my thoughts, not the official requirement of the Church.
I have often wondered if blind people perceive some difference in feeling whether Jesus in the Host is exposed or in the tabernacle. But I have not thought about it too much since that is not my situation.

 

[JW55]

I believe the Maronite Monks of Adoration in Massachusetts practice it in the same manner of an exposed host as in the West.

 

[JRS_831]

I believe the Maronite Monks of Adoration in Massachusetts practice it in the same manner of an exposed host as in the West.

Should I comment or should I just pray for those “monks”?
I’ll just pray for them

 

[JW55]

Care to elaborate?

 

[MichaelP3]

Really? This was flagged?

Come on. This is utterly senseless to flag this post. Rather see what is being said. Read about it.

I am starting to think FR Sabastian is needed to get all of you into history. And this is coming from a Protestant.

 

[JRS_831]

Care to elaborate?

They’re very latinized. That’s as far as I’ll go.

 

[dochawk]

For personal prayer, in fact, icons probably play the same role in the East, in many ways, as the reserved Sacrament in the West.

I missed this before.

Father Deacon, I’d say “parallel” rather than “same” role.

Unlike paintings and statues, icons are prayers of their own, windows into Heaven. In reverencing an icon, we seek to join that prayer, which is different than being inspired or getting insight from religious art. Icons are “written”, not painted.

If adoration is non-reflective, but simple adoration, it is very much like the reverence of an icon. (this is another difference between the rosary and eastern devotions).

To be very clear, I am not knocking or putting down any type of devotions, just trying to pass on my understandings the differences.

hawk

p.s. I was at the KofC state convention this last weekend, and cringed at some of the items on the wall. They were apparently painted by someone who liked an icon he saw, but had no idea what icons are . . .

 

[JW55]

I realize that as most of the monks there are originally from outside the Maronite tradition and I know that the practice of adoration has bothered some individuals. However, from what I know they are a faithful and devout group and practice the Maronite tradition in other aspects to my knowledge.

My response was primarily to inform the OP that there are some within the Maronite tradition who do practice Eucharistic Adoration.

 

[JRS_831]

I have a real problem with the fact that the majority of them are not Maronite. They can’t even bother to make the transfer.

Also, to the best of my knowledge they pray the Roman Divine Office. Granted right now the only office we have here in the USA in English is the Maronite Prayer of the Faithful, but they could at least be praying that.

I hope once the new Office which is being finalized is ready and translated into English that they will pray that instead of the Roman Office. If they do say the Maronite POF now, then good for them.

I’m sure their hearts are in the right place, and they mean well, and do God’s work.

EDIT: Ok, I now realize why they pray the Roman Office (if they do). The POF only has three prayers Morning, Evening and Night, and the monks would need all the hours. My bad.