Yoga and Christianity

[Pleroma]

For many of us, we’re not worshiping anyone or anything when we are working out, as this above post implies…we’re just working out. Implicitly, we are respecting the bodies that God gave us. There are too many people not taking care of themselves, which is disrespecting that which God gave them.

As has been said many times one cannot separate the physical and the spiritual elements from yoga. Christians should believe in a salvation through Jesus Christ so why can’t you guys just worship Christ rather than the eastern gods. If you have been faithful to Christ and if you had asked him to keep your body fit then he would have given you strength and knowledge which no one else has in this world. Instead you’re just being a religious hypocrite.

Yoga poses dangers to genuine Christian faith

You better make the choice now either just be a catholic and don’t perform yoga or perform yoga and start calling yourself that I belong to an eastern religion. There isn’t much arguing there.

People that want to see the devil in everything will see the devil in everything.

You’re not seeing the beautiful things that exists in your own religion.

If you believe that when you practice, then you are practicing another religion. Others of other simply stretch to remain flexible, strengthen ourselves, and lessen the possibility of injury.

What you’re not understanding is that the cosmogony, physiology and epistemology of yoga are all intertwined and if you say you practiced yoga and it worked for you then you’re implicitly accepting the cosmogony of the eastern religions and its an intellectual dishonesty on your part to remain yourself as a catholic even when you know that the entire cosmogony of the catholics is just plainly wrong. This attitude of everything is okay will not be tolerated anymore.

Don’t get me started…do you balance the flavors in your food? If so, you are practicing Five Element Theory and thus practicing Buddhism.

The five element theory exists in all the major religions of the world including the Genesis and that’s what this world is made of and its not specific to Buddhism.

Hands in Christian prayer position? This is a mudra, and thus you are practicing Hinduism and Buddhism.

There are things that are ubiquitous (eating, drinking, sleeping, body movement, etc.), and things that are specific to particular religions, which MUST include the attachment of a spiritual element, otherwise its not religious. You are conflating the two.

If that’s the case then stop calling it Yoga, its better if you use the name ayoga. Will you stop calling what you practice as Yoga?

 

[Pleroma]

Actually, saying that there is only one God is simply what I believe. I can’t worship other Gods if I don’t believe in other Gods.

And yet you can be easily manipulated to worship a different God without yourself being aware of it and that’s what is happening when you perform yoga. You think you’re worshipping your God but actually it isn’t and there by you’re committing blasphemy.

I am calling myself a Catholic and performing yoga at the same time, so evidently, it can be done.

Such a man is surely broken and he needs some serious help because the cosmology of the Catholics and the cosmogony of the yoga are entirely incompatible.

There are no compelling talking points in this article. Just a man writing an article for an ultra right wing fundamentalist publication saying that yoga is bad for Christians. That is not a reasoned argument.

No, he is just speaking the obvious truth which Christians who practice yoga are yet to realize.

Honestly, I respect your opinions, by I think your ideas are rather ill-informed. It is possible to gain something of an education on eastern philosophy from Google searches, and Wikipedia, however, it would be better to do some serious research.

Do you know who Yajnavalkya is? He is the greatest sage of Hinduism and all Hindu laws today was given by this great sage. I am not stating things as opinions, I’m stating things as facts and hence think twice before you say that my ideas are ill-informed.

LoL, you’re already assuming that you know more about eastern religions than I do.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

As has been said many times one cannot separate the physical and the spiritual elements from yoga.

Why not. Why can’t we touch our toes without being Hindu?

And yet you can be easily manipulated to worship a different God without yourself being aware of it and that’s what is happening when you perform yoga.

What kind of worship could it possible be without involving awareness of it?

 

[Pleroma]

Why not. Why can’t we touch our toes without being Hindu?

All the Yogic postures, pin to pin has been designed and developed to invoke the spiritual side of things.

***“When Christians practice yoga, they must either deny the reality of what yoga represents or fail to see the contradictions between their Christian commitments and their embrace of yoga. The contradictions are not few, nor are they peripheral.”

---

This sums up the mess you guys have created for yourself quite nicely.

What kind of worship could it possible be without involving awareness of it?

According to eastern philosophy breathing is viewed as taking Prana or the life air in and out. This is purely a pagan concept and hence every Yogic posture and breathing exercise is a worship to the God Prana Deva.

 

[agnes_therese]

According to eastern philosophy breathing is viewed as taking Prana or the life air in and out. This is purely a pagan concept and hence every Yogic posture and breathing exercise is a worship to the God Prana Deva.

One asana is called the corpse pose. It consists of lying flat on your back, arms at your sides.
I hope you’re VERY careful about how you sleep.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

All the Yogic postures, pin to pin has been designed and developed to invoke the spiritual side of things.

***“When Christians practice yoga, they must either deny the reality of what yoga represents or fail to see the contradictions between their Christian commitments and their embrace of yoga. The contradictions are not few, nor are they peripheral.”

---

This sums up the mess you guys have created for yourself quite nicely.

According to eastern philosophy breathing is viewed as taking Prana or the life air in and out. This is purely a pagan concept and hence every Yogic posture and breathing exercise is a worship to the God Prana Deva.

Then, by your own words, if we cannot separate the physical and the spiritual elements, we cannot even exercise the act of breathing without worshipping a pagan god.

 

[aspirant]

One asana is called the corpse pose. It consists of lying flat on your back, arms at your sides.
I hope you’re VERY careful about how you sleep.

Then, by your own words, if we cannot separate the physical and the spiritual elements, we cannot even exercise the act of breathing without worshipping a pagan god.

Repent your evil ways! Stop sleeping and breathing!

 

[aspirant]

Repent your evil ways! Stop sleeping and breathing!

Oh NOES! I looked in the Bible, and even God himself has fallen into the evil of yoga. Check it out:

“the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life”

“So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man”

 

[Pleroma]

Then, by your own words, if we cannot separate the physical and the spiritual elements, we cannot even exercise the act of breathing without worshipping a pagan god.

Of course yes.

Every living being in this world is verily a Sun worshipper. Some know it, but a large number of beings are unaware of it. Being aware of what one is doing, systematizing it and doing it fully and consciously through Sankalpa is called yoga. Progress is nothing but turning the mind from ayoga to yoga. Vedas declare Surya atma jagataha tasthushascha. It means that the sun is very soul of both the immobile and mobile beings. Since the universe came into existence through the Sun, he is called Aditya. Since all the luster in this universe is his he is called Bhaskara. He is the leading light of the planetary system and fruits such as health, well-being, heartiness and wholeness are due to him are well-known. He is the giver of life and light. The evolution of all created things in the world of human beings is entirely due to the sun. Aryas worshipped him as Savithru because every being needs his permission to issue out of the mother’s womb. Once upon a time the worship of Savithru deva was in vogue in every nook and corner of the world. As divine law declined this Savithru worship decreased. Now it is being performed here and there. In another sense, this Savithru-worship has not been given up at all, and cannot be given up either! For, the support for the breathing process which, takes place every moment is Prana. And in this Prana there are both movable and stationary factors. This prana sustains itself by upward and downward movements. It inhales the air from outside and protects the vital air, which is inside and thus is responsible for the existence of this body. It is this Agnishoma mandala’s grace and flavour that every living being is kept alive. This is a matter, which can be tested by means of yoga.

• Devudu Narasimha Shastry, Sanskrit Scholar

Directly from the Pagan mystery religions.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Do you know who Yajnavalkya is? He is the greatest sage of Hinduism and all Hindu laws today was given by this great sage.

Actually, Vyasa is thought by some to have authored the most widely read Hindu texts, however, there is no recognized greatest of all Hindu sages. If you are looking for the primary author on yoga practices, that would be Patanjali. He was the author of the Yoga Sutras. Aside from possibly Patanjali, ascribing authorship on ancient Indian texts is a dicey endeavor.

I am not stating things as opinions, I’m stating things as facts and hence think twice before you say that my ideas are ill-informed.

I spent 25 years among the Indian people. What I can tell you is that you are trying to apply dogma and parameters to things that don’t have a set dogma or standard set of parameters. There is no standard bearer, universal leader, or standard set of practices in regards to religion on the Subcontinent of India, which by the way, is not called Hinduism by anyone but westerners.

LoL, you’re already assuming that you know more about eastern religions than I do

I cannot with any confidence say that I know more about eastern religions than you. What I can say with confidence is that what you have said so far is incorrect.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

As has been said many times one cannot separate the physical and the spiritual elements from yoga.

Your philosophy is inconsistent regarding this matter. You are picking an choosing elements to support your philosophy, and discarding the rest.

Christians should believe in a salvation through Jesus Christ so why can’t you guys just worship Christ rather than the eastern gods.

I’m not worshipping eastern gods, and do not make such false and uncharitable accusations in the future.

Seeking salvation through Christ has nothing to do with stretching, as much as you wish to believe it to be true.

If you have been faithful to Christ and if you had asked him to keep your body fit then he would have given you strength and knowledge which no one else has in this world.

I respect the body that God gave me. Maybe that’s why I haven’t had a heart attack, glandular dysfunction, major disabilities, and am not on any medications unlike the vast majority of people my age that I grew up with. I also understand my body better than 95% of people in this country. Maybe, just maybe, this was God’s intent for me? You deny such a possibility.

Instead you’re just being a religious hypocrite.

Your stay here on the forum will be short if you continue to be act in an un-Christ-like manner, and continue to be disrespectful to others.

You’re not seeing the beautiful things that exists in your own religion.

I do. However, this has nothing to do with working out.

The five element theory exists in all the major religions of the world including the Genesis and that’s what this world is made of and its not specific to Buddhism.

The example I provided is specific to Buddhism, hence the reason I used it in the first place.

If that’s the case then stop calling it Yoga, its better if you use the name ayoga. Will you stop calling what you practice as Yoga?

I actually don’t call it “Yoga,” but I call it “yoga” (small letter versus capital). That’s a not so subtle difference. I do the same thing when referring to our own God versus other “gods.”

The reason I refer to it as “yoga” is simply because it is common practice in the west to refer to certain stretching exercises that way, which is separate and distinct from the Hindu practice.

 

[Pleroma]

Actually, Vyasa is thought by some to have authored the most widely read Hindu texts, however, there is no recognized greatest of all Hindu sages.

The Vedas were passed on to others orally for a long period of time and then Vyasa wrote it down and produced it in a written form.

If you are looking for the primary author on yoga practices, that would be Patanjali. He was the author of the Yoga Sutras. Aside from possibly Patanjali, ascribing authorship on ancient Indian texts is a dicey endeavor.

Nope, Yoga goes back much further than Patanjali and it is owned by the Sun-god.

The Original Teachings of Yoga: From Patanjali Back to Hiranyagarbha - American Institute of Vedic studies.

Hiranyagarbha and Vedic Yoga

“Who then was Hiranyagarbha, a human figure or a deity? The name Hiranyagarbha, which means “the gold embryo”, first occurs prominently as a Vedic deity, generally a form of the Sun God. There is a special Sukta or hymn to Hiranyagarbha in the Rig VedaX.121, which is commonly chanted by Hindus today. The Mahabharata speaks of Hiranyagarbha as he who is lauded in the Vedic verses and taught in the Yoga Shastra (Shanti Parva 339.69). As a form of the Sun God, Hiranyagarbha can be related to other such Sun Gods like Savitri, to whom the famous Gayatri mantra is addressed. Therefore, the Hiranyagabha Yoga tradition is a strongly Vedic tradition. We can call it the Hiranyagarbha Vedic Yoga tradition.”

That’s why I told you that you being a Catholic Christian should not perform Yoga.

I spent 25 years among the Indian people. What I can tell you is that you are trying to apply dogma and parameters to things that don’t have a set dogma or standard set of parameters. There is no standard bearer, universal leader, or standard set of practices in regards to religion on the Subcontinent of India, which by the way, is not called Hinduism by anyone but westerners.

Hinduism is indeed a disorganized religion but not Vedism.

I cannot with any confidence say that I know more about eastern religions than you. What I can say with confidence is that what you have said so far is incorrect.

Are scholars and practitioners lying too?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Of course yes.

Directly from the Pagan mystery religions.

Then how do you avoid it because even not breathing, breath retention is pranayama.

Can you not see the problem in your logic?

In your view one cannot even breath nor not breath without worshipping a pagan god.

Unless the physical can be separable from the belief system.

And, of course, we do this all the time. Hands folded in prayer: the priest does it at Mass and we do it as well without intending Namaste, without adopting the pagan world view, without worshipping pagan gods.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Nope, Yoga goes back much further than Patanjali and it is owned by the Sun-god.

My sense is that you read into things that aren’t there. I didn’t say that Patanjali invented yoga. I said he is widely considered the most primary of authors on the subject.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

“Who then was Hiranyagarbha, a human figure or a deity? The name Hiranyagarbha, which means “the gold embryo”, first occurs prominently as a Vedic deity, generally a form of the Sun God. There is a special Sukta or hymn to Hiranyagarbha in the Rig VedaX.121, which is commonly chanted by Hindus today. The Mahabharata speaks of Hiranyagarbha as he who is lauded in the Vedic verses and taught in the Yoga Shastra (Shanti Parva 339.69). As a form of the Sun God, Hiranyagarbha can be related to other such Sun Gods like Savitri, to whom the famous Gayatri mantra is addressed. Therefore, the Hiranyagabha Yoga tradition is a strongly Vedic tradition. We can call it the Hiranyagarbha Vedic Yoga tradition.”

That’s why I told you that you being a Catholic Christian should not perform Yoga.

You do understand that asanas are just one branch of yoga, right? When yoga is spoken of on broad terms it means Hatha (postures), Bhakti ( devition) Jnana (study of scripture), Raja (meditation) Tantra and lastly, Karma Yoga (the path of service to others).

By your reasoning, Catholic Charities is practicing Karma Yoga, and anyone who sleeps on their back does Yoga Nidra.

My sense is that you are wound a bit tight on the matter, and you might be happier if you eased up a bit. I would rather see you happy than getting all wrapped around the axle about nothing.

 

[Pleroma]

Your philosophy is inconsistent regarding this matter. You are picking an choosing elements to support your philosophy, and discarding the rest.

My philosophy in this matter is quite consistent and it is the orthodox eastern philosophy and all scholarly evidence is on my side.

I’m not worshipping eastern gods, and do not make such false and uncharitable accusations in the future.

Of course you’re not explicitly worshipping the eastern gods but by embracing and performing Yoga you’re implicitly worshipping the eastern gods.

Seeking salvation through Christ has nothing to do with stretching, as much as you wish to believe it to be true.

For your kind information yoga isn’t simply stretching, its much more than that and its a path of salvation which is entirely anti-semitic.

I respect the body that God gave me. Maybe that’s why I haven’t had a heart attack, glandular dysfunction, major disabilities, and am not on any medications unlike the vast majority of people my age that I grew up with. I also understand my body better than 95% of people in this country. Maybe, just maybe, this was God’s intent for me? You deny such a possibility.

Honestly its madness to mix the world-view of Yoga and the world-view of Catholic Christianity and I cannot answer to that question unless you decide to which religion you specifically belong to. Practising yoga and calling yourself a Catholic doesn’t fit in. A sincere Catholic should stay away from Yoga.

Your stay here on the forum will be short if you continue to be act in an un-Christ-like manner, and continue to be disrespectful to others.

I honestly don’t have anything personal against anyone, I just criticize for the position you hold, I hope you take my criticisms in good spirit in the near future. Thank you.

I actually don’t call it “Yoga,” but I call it “yoga” (small letter versus capital). That’s a not so subtle difference. I do the same thing when referring to our own God versus other “gods.”

The reason I refer to it as “yoga” is simply because it is common practice in the west to refer to certain stretching exercises that way, which is separate and distinct from the Hindu practice.

What do people in the west call for workout with dumbbells? Yoga is not just a workout, you better realize that, its an ancient technique to become one with the eastern gods.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

Honestly its madness to mix the world-view of Yoga and the world-view of Catholic Christianity and I cannot answer to that question unless you decide to which religion you specifically belong to. Practising yoga and calling yourself a Catholic doesn’t fit in. A sincere Catholic should stay away from Yoga.

This seems to be the core of the debate: Can one do yoga (hatha yoga) without the yoga world-view?

Can I stretch my legs without worshipping or even believing in Hiranyagarbha?

Why not?

 

[Pleroma]

You do understand that asanas are just one branch of yoga, right? When yoga is spoken of on broad terms it means Hatha (postures), Bhakti ( devition) Jnana (study of scripture), Raja (meditation) Tantra and lastly, Karma Yoga (the path of service to others).

By your reasoning, Catholic Charities is practicing Karma Yoga,

That’s not what Karma Yoga is. Karma Yoga is doing actions without any attachments to your works, in fact the whole basis of Karma Yoga is based on the fact that all the works is done by the Sun-god and hence we neither need to take pride for what we do nor weep when things go wrong. This is the basis of Karma Yoga.

Will Catholics donate with such a notion or a frame of mind, of course not and hence your example is entirely irrelevant.

and anyone who sleeps on their back does Yoga Nidra.

If that was the case then all those who sleep should have been already enlightened.

You have not understood the reality of Yoga Nidra. yet.

My sense is that you are wound a bit tight on the matter, and you might be happier if you eased up a bit. I would rather see you happy than getting all wrapped around the axle about nothing.

If you just accept that you were wrong on this matter then yes everything will ease up a bit.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

What do people in the west call for workout with dumbbells? Yoga is not just a workout, you better realize that, its an ancient technique to become one with the eastern gods.

Now that you mention it, I also work out with dumbbells. I realize that I run the risk of becoming one with Rocky Balboa, but I’m just bent on self destruction, I guess.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

That’s not what Karma Yoga is. Karma Yoga is doing actions without any attachments to your works,

That is indeed part of it, but selfless service is equally part of it.

Will Catholics donate with such a notion or a frame of mind, of course not and hence your example is entirely irrelevant.

Oh, I don;t know I think a lot of Catholics are into selfless service. That’s a Jesus-thing as much as it is a Krishna thing.

If that was the case then all those who sleep should have been already enlightened.

There is no presumption that everyone who does yoga nidra is enlightened.

You have not understood the reality of Yoga Nidra. yet.

I would imagine that to understand the reality of yoga nidra, one would have to try yoga nidra.

If you just accept that you were wrong on this matter then yes everything will ease up a bit.

It’s not about being right or wrong. It’s about coming to terms with truth.