YOGA...ooer!

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Thank you. And for any faults of mine I will endeavour to pursue the subject with more charity.

I would welcome stories from either side in response to my articles if anyone else is passing through. No judgements either way. It seems to be a mixed bag in terms of opinion for or against…

👍
 
YOGA: 30 minutes of getting your butt kicked stretching tight/stiff muscles and makes you feel better. Take your suffering while you do it and unite it to Christ’s and everyone wins:thumbsup:
 
Paulist Father Thomas Ryan offers a response to some concerns that have been raised here. This particular Q & A concerns itself with meditation, but it appears in a website devoted to Christians practicing Yoga (see the link below), and it is therefore meant to answer the similar concern which is so often raised over Yoga:

**"Question: In meditating, are we leaving our minds open and empty with the result that the devil might enter in?

Answer: This view seriously undervalues the power of intentionality… Our freedom is God’s respect for us. God does not force or impose, only invites. And if God does not force or impose, God will not allow the devil to trample our freedom either. When it is our intention to respond to God’s invitation to deepening communion in faith and love, it is God, not evil, that will fill our hearts and minds."**

When I stretch using Yoga poses, I have no intention of inviting demons or false deities, only of conditioning my tired, old body so as to better love and serve God and neighbor. This is my only intention. See more at this website: Christians Practicing Yoga. The site has a wealth of articles which provide some balance to the other links I have seen in this thread, and I have linked specifically, Yoga and Christianity, Addressing the Fears:

christianspracticingyoga.com/wp/yoga-our-perspective/addressing-the-fears-yoga-and-christianity/
 
Also, Pope Francis is quoted as saying this: “***'Do not seek spiritual answers in yoga classes.” ***

Since you bring up Pope Francis, here is the link to a more complete version of what he actually said in this particular instance:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500093.htm

**Catechism, yoga, Zen cannot open people’s hearts to God, Pope says.

“You can take a million catechetical courses, a million courses in spirituality, a million courses in yoga, Zen and all these things. But all of this will never be able to give you the freedom of being a child of God.”**

If you think the Holy Father is telling us to avoid Yoga here, you must also conclude that he is telling us to avoid studying the Catechism, which is, of course, not at all what he meant.
 
Yoga makes people miserable; avoiding demonic worship is the same as avoiding misery in the long run
But the arguments purporting to show that Yoga is the worship of demons are bogus.

Worry a lot more about whether saluting the American flag is demon worship. There’s a real case for that.
rather than superficial happiness concentrated on Satan - who is the Prince of this world - if you don’t believe me, read the Bible!
That’s a silly rhetorical trick worthy of Protestant fundamentalists.
Heck, if you don’t believe me, read up on Yoga from the Catholic perspective, it is a quick and thorough way to learn.
Sure. And I’ll start with Fr. Bede Griffiths, who actually knew something about the subject:p
Reincarnation is a demonic curse.
So you believe it’s real? You are confusing me here.

I know of no empirical or theological reason to believe that it is a “demonic curse.”
So to say that ‘anything goes’, if you want to be part of the anything goes culture, is up to you. Go ahead. But on a Catholic website, steering clear of anything potentially demonic, even at the risk of not spreading what some might call ‘happiness’’. Try looking up ‘spiritual warfare’, and you’ll get what I mean, as opposed to ‘fluffy wuffy wapped in cotton wool weligion for ikkle wittle bunny wabbits’. So save the insults LW.
Right. Because your penultimate sentence isn’t insulting at all:shrug:

Edwin
 
Ah! I think I know why…sometimes pasting URLs messes them up.

I know what you are saying but there is more to it. I get that it can relax people etc…I’m not suggesting that it can turn people into demonic forces overnight or ever, in such an exaggerated way, but there are subtle effects that seem to stem from doing such seemingly innocent exercises. When doing this stuff it is emptying the mind, clearing the mind, and the issue with it at the heart of it is…because we can’t know for certain all that is on a purely spiritual plain, when we take our mind away from our body or consciousness we are open to whatever is there on another level which we can’t see.
And a person who does this in humility and faith, opening themselves to the Reality that underlies all created reality, is not making himsefl/herself receptive to demons. Pride and lack of charity–these make us receptive to the demonic.

I believe in spiritual warfare. But it is not an amoral warfare as you seem to be implying.
Yoga tends to be pretty specific in its claims to what is there and certainly the wording used and titles given links really strongly with Satan.
Are you talking about the “kundalini” serpent language? That’s the only example I can think of. I think we need to be careful jumping on an image and assuming that there is a direct connection.

Before taking a position one way or the other on yoga, I think we need to get our metaphysics straight as Christians. A lot of the anti-yoga language seems to reflect a more dualistic perspective than orthodox Christianity allows for. At the same time. Fr. Griffiths and others who have deeply integrated Hinduism and Christianity go over to the monistic end of the spectrum in ways that make me rather uncomfortable.

Kundalini, as I understand the Hindu concept, is the spiritual/psychic power that is latent in people. To say that this power is, intrinsically, evil is I think to commit heresy. Fundamentalist Protestants believe this, because they believe in total depravity and see goodness as conforming to external rules. I don’t think this is an orthodox position. As Aquinas would say, grace perfects nature.

At the same time, Hindus and Western yoga practitioners talk about the potential dangers of kundalini in ways that clearly do correspond to our understanding of the demonic. If you try to tap into the divine power latent in creation and make it serve your own selfish ends, then yes, I think you are absolutely opening yourself to the demonic. The demonic is not an independent force–it’s a perversion of divine power. Satan sought to be equal to God, misusing the great power and beauty he was given by God.

Edwin
 
YOGA: Take your suffering while you do it and unite it to Christ’s and everyone wins:thumbsup:
Hi! Thanks for the post!

I think that what you’ve said there is the other side to the argument.

The question is though: aren’t there certain practices that God likes to see and some that are a bit of a mockery? There is good and there is bad, verbal and physical action, even thought.

Also, another thought, use this example (based on my own reasoning not source material so in advance please respond or dismiss as you wish):

Say you are an ancient spirit to whom a percentage of each generation of peoples for ten thousand years have been giving you signals which in more extreme surroundings are always a clear sign of invitation or respect.

Now take Yoga. First, not just the simple exercise but the eastern meditation mixed in to it and which has been used as a form of worship to false gods for, for the sake of argument, ten thousand years within an eastern cult.

Ten thousand years later, people start doing the exercises in the West. Would you not recognise these exercises if they had been used - albeit with the meditation - as a sign of invitation if you had been in receipt of them for ten thousand years in the East.

So, let’s say you approach this person (or many) who is doing this exercise but, being a venomous type of fellow, you realize to your annoyance, not joy, that these signals which have been used as a sign of respect in your direction for so long are now being used to offer up to God who IS, how you might react. The one whose angels cast you into the abyss. Do you walk away or stick around a bit? Maybe God is protecting this person from you! Maybe you give up or maybe you see a chance to use this as a snakey-path.

Say you do not give up trying to make room in this person’s life who is using this old form of respect that used to be attributed to you, and now that they’ve got your attention with the recognisable symbols and you’ve have their scent (the scent of crunchy Christians) and despite being given limited room to manoeuvre, you try to work out how else to get a foothold…as the cunning and deceptive do.

So, maybe there are other people who are exercising with this person who are bringing the ‘spirituality’ side of things into their symbols to you. This person’s family, friends or classmates are worshipping you via these symbolic patterns by offering you their minds and bodies? So is it not logical to guess that the person who is not doing the meditative side of things, the signs of invitation, will to some degree be in your domain?

To be using symbolic language, communication, that has been used to worship false gods for thousands of years (maybe not ten!) and to rely on God’s protection in order to continue doing these so I can feel nice, in such a repetitively dangerous situation, when does testing the Holy Spirit come into all this? Are we meant to purposefully prod a bear and say: “Hey, God will protect me”. Are we meant to intentionally lie with a beautiful woman at night and say: “Hey, God will stop me”. Or is this testing the Holy Spirit? I don’t know but I could do with some theologian’s answers.

These are just thoughts but welcome your response.
 
Hi! Thanks for the post!

I think that what you’ve said there is the other side to the argument.

The question is though: aren’t there certain practices that God likes to see and some that are a bit of a mockery? There is good and there is bad, verbal and physical action, even thought.

Also, another thought, use this example (based on my own reasoning not source material so in advance please respond or dismiss as you wish):

Say you are an ancient spirit to whom a percentage of each generation of peoples for ten thousand years have been giving you signals which in more extreme surroundings are always a clear sign of invitation or respect.

Now take Yoga. First, not just the simple exercise but the eastern meditation mixed in to it and which has been used as a form of worship to false gods for, for the sake of argument, ten thousand years within an eastern cult.

Ten thousand years later, people start doing the exercises in the West. Would you not recognise these exercises if they had been used - albeit with the meditation - as a sign of invitation if you had been in receipt of them for ten thousand years in the East.

So, let’s say you approach this person (or many) who is doing this exercise but, being a venomous type of fellow, you realize to your annoyance, not joy, that these signals which have been used as a sign of respect in your direction for so long are now being used to offer up to God who IS, how you might react. The one whose angels cast you into the abyss. Do you walk away or stick around a bit? Maybe God is protecting this person from you! Maybe you give up or maybe you see a chance to use this as a snakey-path.

Say you do not give up trying to make room in this person’s life who is using this old form of respect that used to be attributed to you, and now that they’ve got your attention with the recognisable symbols and you’ve have their scent (the scent of crunchy Christians) and despite being given limited room to manoeuvre, you try to work out how else to get a foothold…as the cunning and deceptive do.

So, maybe there are other people who are exercising with this person who are bringing the ‘spirituality’ side of things into their symbols to you. This person’s family, friends or classmates are worshipping you via these symbolic patterns by offering you their minds and bodies? So is it not logical to guess that the person who is not doing the meditative side of things, the signs of invitation, will to some degree be in your domain?

To be using symbolic language, communication, that has been used to worship false gods for thousands of years (maybe not ten!) and to rely on God’s protection in order to continue doing these so I can feel nice, in such a repetitively dangerous situation, when does testing the Holy Spirit come into all this? Are we meant to purposefully prod a bear and say: “Hey, God will protect me”. Are we meant to intentionally lie with a beautiful woman at night and say: “Hey, God will stop me”. Or is this testing the Holy Spirit? I don’t know but I could do with some theologian’s answers.

These are just thoughts but welcome your response.
Hmmm, Not sure about all that… I get a sore back and sore feet. I have a p90X yoga video and he’s joking through it and you are trying to maintain really hard stretches while sweating. I couldn’t meditate if I wanted to. For me it’s just another exercise video…
You could make anything evil I guess. Nothing wrong with a glass of wine each night but turn it into two bottles a night and… Anyway, Did you know there are also Christian (Catholic?) Yoga videos out there?
Such as this: amazon.com/Yoga-Prayer-Father-Thomas-Ryan/dp/B0007Q6R04#customerReviews
 
Yoga as exercise = ok

Yoga as spirituality = dangerous

The origin of yoga is Hindu spirituality, so just like a protestant praying the Rosary would probably become Catholic, someone practicing yoga in-depth using the lingo and philosophy of Hinduism could easily be influenced.

The ultimate aim of yoga is “teaching the suppression of all activity of body, mind, and will in order that the self may realize its distinction from them and attain liberation”. This is at its core incompatible with Catholicism.
 
Yoga as exercise = ok

Yoga as spirituality = dangerous

The origin of yoga is Hindu spirituality, so just like a protestant praying the Rosary would probably become Catholic, someone practicing yoga in-depth using the lingo and philosophy of Hinduism could easily be influenced.

The ultimate aim of yoga is “teaching the suppression of all activity of body, mind, and will in order that the self may realize its distinction from them and attain liberation”. This is at its core incompatible with Catholicism.
Hi. Thank you for this response and all responses so far to others.

And as another poster said, if we are offering up our day then maybe simple exercise is all okay but as with my example of splitting the exercises from the meditation and how hard it is to do, and also the spiritualdirection.com website that is written fairly objectively, where is the answer? There is a logic I think to all the questions that raise whether exercise alone is still a bridge to the spirituality.

If people want to do exercise and there is no spiritual-pull then why not do other exercises that is not Yoga?

And why do people get so emotionally attached to this subject (much earlier in this thread and others) if there is no spiritual or emotional pull? Sometimes my questions, as in other previous threads, simply get ignored in the middle of dialogue with someone and an entirely different point immediately raised instead as if trying to reroute around the point being made). I have asked a few questions here but no one seems to want to give a proper reasoned response to my questions apart from stating the same declaration: “exercise is okay”. I respect their opinion but it would be nice if my questions weren’t just ignored after I’ve taken the time to think and write about them - but let’s save being offended, and I ask: why are people so emotionally attached to this if no spiritual pull on the human condition?

Thanks so far.
 
Paulist Father Thomas Ryan offers a response to some concerns that have been raised here. This particular Q & A concerns itself with meditation, but it appears in a website devoted to Christians practicing Yoga (see the link below), and it is therefore meant to answer the similar concern which is so often raised over Yoga:

**"Question: In meditating, are we leaving our minds open and empty with the result that the devil might enter in?

Answer: This view seriously undervalues the power of intentionality… Our freedom is God’s respect for us. God does not force or impose, only invites. And if God does not force or impose, God will not allow the devil to trample our freedom either. When it is our intention to respond to God’s invitation to deepening communion in faith and love, it is God, not evil, that will fill our hearts and minds."**

When I stretch using Yoga poses, I have no intention of inviting demons or false deities, only of conditioning my tired, old body so as to better love and serve God and neighbor. This is my only intention. See more at this website: Christians Practicing Yoga. The site has a wealth of articles which provide some balance to the other links I have seen in this thread, and I have linked specifically, Yoga and Christianity, Addressing the Fears:

christianspracticingyoga.com/wp/yoga-our-perspective/addressing-the-fears-yoga-and-christianity/
Thank you for this response and for the links! But this post suggests: I can go and do whatever with whoever, for example, because at that moment I want to feel nice or other people to feel nice and do not intend to do damage to souls, and hey, might even offer my actions up to God, right? This is what this post sounds like. For me, this does not address the problem, it highlights it. The same attitude is with abortionists and pro-euthanasia campaigners etc…(an extreme example, I know) whose intention is not necessarily to kill but are doing it anyway because of some other intention they do not believe is bad…!

It is not just intention left alone but education so our intentions can be good and fruitful.

As I said before, the added dimension to a Christian’s prayerful life is not just intention but also commands to love appropriately and learn to do so otherwise we can be testing God continually.

If we love God we follow His commandments, and sometimes those commandments contradict our own wills. Is this not so? Is Christianity not supposed to be a challenge?
 
Since you bring up Pope Francis, here is the link to a more complete version of what he actually said in this particular instance:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1500093.htm

**Catechism, yoga, Zen cannot open people’s hearts to God, Pope says.

“You can take a million catechetical courses, a million courses in spirituality, a million courses in yoga, Zen and all these things. But all of this will never be able to give you the freedom of being a child of God.”**

If you think the Holy Father is telling us to avoid Yoga here, you must also conclude that he is telling us to avoid studying the Catechism, which is, of course, not at all what he meant.
So with your post you are surmising that Pope Francis, by your reasoning, is saying it is okay to do Zen Buddhism, right? And you think that is Pope Francis’ message, because by your logic there, the post suggests this?! 🤷
 
But the arguments purporting to show that Yoga is the worship of demons are bogus.
Hi! Can you back this up a little more please?
Worry a lot more about whether saluting the American flag is demon worship. There’s a real case for that.
Freemasonry, you mean? I wouldn’t know about that. Enough problems here in the U.K!
That’s a silly rhetorical trick worthy of Protestant fundamentalists.
What is, please expand?
Sure. And I’ll start with Fr. Bede Griffiths, who actually knew something about the subject:p
So you believe it’s real? You are confusing me here.
I know of no empirical or theological reason to believe that it is a “demonic curse.”
Respectfully, if you had read all the posts, you’d know I had corrected this statement later after realising I had worded it incorrectly.
Right. Because your penultimate sentence isn’t insulting at all:shrug:
That particular previous dialogue is not to be discussed. Please respect the thread. Thank you so far for your insights.
 
Yoga as exercise = ok

Yoga as spirituality = dangerous

The origin of yoga is Hindu spirituality, so just like a protestant praying the Rosary would probably become Catholic, someone practicing yoga in-depth using the lingo and philosophy of Hinduism could easily be influenced.
The ultimate aim of yoga is “teaching the suppression of all activity of body, mind, and will in order that the self may realize its distinction from them and attain liberation”. This is at its core incompatible with Catholicism.
Exactly. There are those who do go into yoga “whole hog,” spirituality and all. That would certainly be dangerous to your Christian faith.
 
So with your post you are surmising that Pope Francis, by your reasoning, is saying it is okay to do Zen Buddhism, right? And you think that is Pope Francis’ message, because by your logic there, the post suggests this?! 🤷
Neither of us who posted Pope Francis’ quote said any such thing. And if you actually read either post, you know that perfectly well.
 
To be using symbolic language, communication, that has been used to worship false gods for thousands of years (maybe not ten!) and to rely on God’s protection in order to continue doing these so I can feel nice, in such a repetitively dangerous situation, when does testing the Holy Spirit come into all this?
We use incense at Mass. Incense has been used in the worship of pagan gods for millennia. As has our usual folding of hands in prayer.
 
Hi. Thank you for this response and all responses so far to others.

And as another poster said, if we are offering up our day then maybe simple exercise is all okay but as with my example of splitting the exercises from the meditation and how hard it is to do, and also the spiritualdirection.com website that is written fairly objectively, where is the answer? There is a logic I think to all the questions that raise whether exercise alone is still a bridge to the spirituality.

If people want to do exercise and there is no spiritual-pull then why not do other exercises that is not Yoga?

**And why do people get so emotionally attached **to this subject (much earlier in this thread and others) if there is no spiritual or emotional pull? Sometimes my questions, as in other previous threads, simply get ignored in the middle of dialogue with someone and an entirely different point immediately raised instead as if trying to reroute around the point being made). I have asked a few questions here but no one seems to want to give a proper reasoned response to my questions apart from stating the same declaration: “exercise is okay”. I respect their opinion but it would be nice if my questions weren’t just ignored after I’ve taken the time to think and write about them - but let’s save being offended, and I ask: why are people so emotionally attached to this if no spiritual pull on the human condition?

Thanks so far.
JMHO but…
  1. I try to do yoga at least once a week or I really get stiff and can’t keep up to my son:) Sometimes I slack and the next thing I know it’s 2 months later and I’m really stiff. So there is no “pull” for me to do yoga but the reverse. I have to force myself to do it because just stretching on my own isn’t nearly as miserable:)
  2. I don’t think it’s an emotional attachment as much as it’s this: Most people (of all denominations) who peruse this site are striving to be faithful Christians. The ones, like myself, who put a yoga video in to stretch once in a while get our dander up when someone suggests it’s the work of the devil. It would be akin to suggesting a fireman check the smoke detectors in his house this weekend:)
 
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