YOGA...ooer!

[friardchips]

Anything that is there already is not distortion. Whether or not it has an Eastern name. But marriage is the sacrament in the Church by which sexual intercourse is blessed and practiced. Certainly distorting what is natural, I believe, is contrary to what we understand to be chaste, and rushing the blessing in marriage, that is the union, between man and woman. What people fail to realise, I think, is that the stories related to the religious system in which Yoga is connected came before Christianity, so Christianity is The Fulfilment of all GOOD things spiritual, including the natural order. But not ALL things. As some are not GOOD, but distortions of the Truth, away from GOOD. (There is one story in this Eastern religious system in which I believe expresses this quite well). If there are practices in which Christians are entering into in a way which rejects the Revelation by their physical and spiritual expressions then these actions speak for themselves, or their own selfs - a tree of life cannot also be a tree of death, but a tree of death can lead to what can become our realisation of The Tree of Life!

Check this link out to another thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=959198

• this link displays the words of our erudite Pope who expresses the point with eloquence and lucidity.

 

[cjforJesus]

Check this link out to another thread: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=959198

• this link displays the words of our erudite Pope who expresses the point with eloquence and lucidity.

friardchips,I beg your pardon,but what does that link have to do with yoga?

 

[friardchips]

friardchips,I beg your pardon,but what does that link have to do with yoga?

I put the relevant post above the link. If you read back through our dialogue you will see.

Here, you said:

‘I don’t generally rely on wikipedia for intellectual insight though I find it curious that one entry there describes kundalini shakti as simply the libido! Gopi Krishnas writings would seem to confirm this as he also said that kundalini is related to the energy of sexual intercourse.’

I responded:

‘Anything that is there already is not distortion. Whether or not it has an Eastern name. But marriage is the sacrament in the Church by which sexual intercourse is blessed and practiced. Certainly distorting what is natural, I believe, is contrary to what we understand to be chaste, and rushing the blessing in marriage, that is the union, between man and woman. What people fail to realise, I think, is that the stories related to the religious system in which Yoga is connected came before Christianity, so Christianity is The Fulfilment of all GOOD things spiritual, including the natural order. But not ALL things. As some are not GOOD, but distortions of the Truth, away from GOOD. (There is one story in this Eastern religious system in which I believe expresses this quite well). If there are practices in which Christians are entering into in a way which rejects the Revelation by their physical and spiritual expressions then these actions speak for themselves, or their own selfs - a tree of life cannot also be a tree of death, but a tree of death can lead to what can become our realisation of The Tree of Life!’

And then the link here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=959198

I hope this helps!

 

[cjforJesus]

I put the relevant post above the link. If you read back through our dialogue you will see.

Here, you said:

‘I don’t generally rely on wikipedia for intellectual insight though I find it curious that one entry there describes kundalini shakti as simply the libido! Gopi Krishnas writings would seem to confirm this as he also said that kundalini is related to the energy of sexual intercourse.’

I responded:

‘Anything that is there already is not distortion. Whether or not it has an Eastern name. But marriage is the sacrament in the Church by which sexual intercourse is blessed and practiced. Certainly distorting what is natural, I believe, is contrary to what we understand to be chaste, and rushing the blessing in marriage, that is the union, between man and woman. What people fail to realise, I think, is that the stories related to the religious system in which Yoga is connected came before Christianity, so Christianity is The Fulfilment of all GOOD things spiritual, including the natural order. But not ALL things. As some are not GOOD, but distortions of the Truth, away from GOOD. (There is one story in this Eastern religious system in which I believe expresses this quite well). If there are practices in which Christians are entering into in a way which rejects the Revelation by their physical and spiritual expressions then these actions speak for themselves, or their own selfs - a tree of life cannot also be a tree of death, but a tree of death can lead to what can become our realisation of The Tree of Life!’

And then the link here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=959198

I hope this helps!

Sorry, it does not. The Tree of Life is a reference to Jesus Christ,how he died for us on the cross(tree) and how we follow Him.

The link is about marriage and how a husband and wife must love each other.It says nothing about them practicing yoga or anything.

Gopi Krisha,an alleged expert on yoga and kundalini claims that all mystical experiences are NOT from God but from a force in the spine related to sex. He even goes so far as to insist that there is a scientific explanation for them and that they should be studied especially causing the serpent to manifest.

Krisha also goes on to claim that Jesus is just another so called avatar or enlightened master.

 

[agnes_therese]

Yes and St Teresa says that one has to totally abandon the world and in this day and age it seems impossible.

For a layperson, it has more to do with your attitude toward the world. Her three foundations of the spiritual life – for everyone, not just nuns – are humility, detachment, and love of neighbor.

Not everyone wants to work at detachment. But “impossible”? No.

 

[cjforJesus]

For a layperson, it has more to do with your attitude toward the world. Her three foundations of the spiritual life – for everyone, not just nuns – are humility, detachment, and love of neighbor.

Not everyone wants to work at detachment. But “impossible”? No.

no TV,no smart phones,no computers,no video games! Please show me someone besides a cloistered religious who practices this in the modern world.

Not to get off topic but in the approved Marian apparition of Akita,Mary told the nun that they are fastened to the cross with three nails: poverty,chastity,and obedience. I believe St Teresa also stressed obedience as she deferred to her superiors always. It would seem this obedience is humility.

 

[Contarini]

No I doubt this because Jesus told us the way to the Father and he did not mention any hidden serpents in our rear.

Jesus didn’t mention germ theory or psychiatry or Aristotelian metaphysics or for that matter the existence of the pancreas. Jesus, in short, didn’t mention lots of things.

Kundalini is a particular cultural way of speaking about human energy. There would be no reason for Jesus to talk about it.

On the contrary many equate this feminine power with the serpent of Genesis which according to the bible is satan the deceiver.

I understand why the “serpent” imagery is bothersome–it’s bothersome to me too. But of course the “many” who equate Kundalini with the serpent of Genesis are Christians with a polemical agenda. Is it reasonable to assume that serpent metaphors must work the same way in Indian culture as in ancient Near Eastern culture? Or, in other words, is there something fundamentally evil about serpent imagery or is it just the way in which the inspired authors chose to talk about it?

From what I can discern we have an alleged “power” that when awakened cannot be controlled(not my words but Gopi Krishna)

This alleged power causes psychosis in many people and in others it causes hallucinations of a visual and auditory nature.(the psychosis according to Carl Jung)

This power may cause people to jerk uncontrolably and emit animal sounds in a supposed attempt to “purify them”.

This same power can be awakened through tantric sex, especially sodomy.

If in fact we have a certain natural capacity for spiritual things, that is exactly how we would expect it to behave. That is to say, it would have a great potential for both good and harm.

At no point have I denied that the practices of yoga, which are designed to discipline the body for spiritual purposes, can be extremely dangerous spiritually. However, the point I’ve made consistently is that spiritual dangers are moral dangers.

the phenomena Gopi Krishna described (and I note that you’re basing your interpretation of yoga practice as a whole on one modern figure who happened to be very concerned with kundalini) have a lot of parallels with phenomena that occur in Christian mystics–the combination of exaltation and depression, for instance (“dark night of the soul,” etc.).

The bottom line is that, again, there clearly are elements of truth and goodness in the Eastern traditions, and we must be open to all such elements wherever they are found. Yes, of course it’s dangerous. Everything worth doing is dangerous.

Edwin

 

[cjforJesus]

Jesus didn’t mention germ theory or psychiatry or Aristotelian metaphysics or for that matter the existence of the pancreas. Jesus, in short, didn’t mention lots of things.

Kundalini is a particular cultural way of speaking about human energy. There would be no reason for Jesus to talk about it.

I understand why the “serpent” imagery is bothersome–it’s bothersome to me too. But of course the “many” who equate Kundalini with the serpent of Genesis are Christians with a polemical agenda. Is it reasonable to assume that serpent metaphors must work the same way in Indian culture as in ancient Near Eastern culture? Or, in other words, is there something fundamentally evil about serpent imagery or is it just the way in which the inspired authors chose to talk about it?

If in fact we have a certain natural capacity for spiritual things, that is exactly how we would expect it to behave. That is to say, it would have a great potential for both good and harm.

At no point have I denied that the practices of yoga, which are designed to discipline the body for spiritual purposes, can be extremely dangerous spiritually. However, the point I’ve made consistently is that spiritual dangers are moral dangers.

the phenomena Gopi Krishna described (and I note that you’re basing your interpretation of yoga practice as a whole on one modern figure who happened to be very concerned with kundalini) have a lot of parallels with phenomena that occur in Christian mystics–the combination of exaltation and depression, for instance (“dark night of the soul,” etc.).

The bottom line is that, again, there clearly are elements of truth and goodness in the Eastern traditions, and we must be open to all such elements wherever they are found. Yes, of course it’s dangerous. Everything worth doing is dangerous.

Edwin

what if you are really dealing with the seething energies of lucifer as is claimed in a masonic text? What if this is “Mystery Babylon”? No Christian mystic ever fell down or made strange movements or jerks.The were in ECSTASY.

I am not saying there is no truth in Buddhism of Hinduism as God writes his precepts on the heart. Do unto others and such. I seriously doubt even Hinduism or Buddhism stress mystical experiences but just being a good person.

 

[friardchips]

Sorry, it does not. The Tree of Life is a reference to Jesus Christ,how he died for us on the cross(tree) and how we follow Him.

The link is about marriage and how a husband and wife must love each other.It says nothing about them practicing yoga or anything.

The subject connects. Because you can’t see the connection does not mean it does not exist.

Gopi Krisha,an alleged expert on yoga and kundalini claims that all mystical experiences are NOT from God but from a force in the spine related to sex. He even goes so far as to insist that there is a scientific explanation for them and that they should be studied especially causing the serpent to manifest.

Krisha also goes on to claim that Jesus is just another so called avatar or enlightened master.

The underlined sentence has already been addressed in discussion.

 

[cjforJesus]

The subject connects. Because you can’t see the connection does not mean it does not exist.

The underlined sentence has already been addressed in discussion.

So do you agree with Gopi that all mystical experiences are caused by the libido?

Do you agree with his contention that Jesus was just an enlightened master who had his kundalini awakened?

 

[friardchips]

no TV,no smart phones,no computers,no video games! Please show me someone besides a cloistered religious who practices this in the modern world.

Not everyone in the world has smart phones, constant TV - which is what I’m assuming you mean - or plays video games. This is a matter for discernment.

Not to get off topic but in the approved Marian apparition of Akita,Mary told the nun that they are fastened to the cross with three nails: poverty,chastity,and obedience. I believe St Teresa also stressed obedience as she deferred to her superiors always. It would seem this obedience is humility.

Families are called to live holy lives as are Religious but not in the same way; however, there are things which carry across the board.

 

[friardchips]

So do you agree with Gopi that all mystical experiences are caused by the libido?

Do you agree with his contention that Jesus was just an enlightened master who had his kundalini awakened?

?

I think you are getting a bit muddled. It can happen so not to worry.

 

[cjforJesus]

?

Are all mystical experiences just expressions of the libido? Krishna contends that along with the claim that Jesus was just an avatar no different than Budda or Mohammed. I understand that nothing should be rejected of other religions that is good but I do not know a Christian who could reconcile an alleged force that seeks to control the practitioner once it is activated. We have free will and God never violates that.

 

[friardchips]

Are all mystical experiences just expressions of the libido? Krishna contends that along with the claim that Jesus was just an avatar no different than Budda or Mohammed. I understand that nothing should be rejected of other religions that is good but I do not know a Christian who could reconcile an alleged force that seeks to control the practitioner once it is activated. We have free will and God never violates that.

No, no, I don’t think so, although as human beings we are sexual creatures, but seeking holiness rather than sensuality.

In that case Krishna was wrong. But wasn’t Krishna before The Word came into being.

“No” to the last two questions in your previous post, btw. I think you misunderstood my dialogue concerning the link I provided but it doesn’t matter really.

The last point about connection and our Maker respecting our free will you made in this post is interesting actually.

 

[Contarini]

what if you are really dealing with the seething energies of lucifer as is claimed in a masonic text?

I seriously doubt that masonic texts know anything about seething energies, and I strongly suspect that you are getting your information from some polemical Christian source.

As a Christian, I know what made Lucifer fall. It was pride. Not “seething energies.”

Yes, one can dabble in exotic spiritual practices out of pride and “curiosity” in the pejorative medieval sense (which is a form of pride). But one can also reject the unfamiliar and alien out of pride.

What if this is “Mystery Babylon”?

I think that Christians killing people is probably as close to Mystery Babylon as we get.

So when talking about how to avoid the snares of Satan, my starting question is, “how can I best avoid the attitudes that have led Christians to kill people?”

I don’t mean that this is the only question, or that it’s not possible to go too far in the other extreme, or that fundamentally good impulses can’t be distorted (indeed, there are no other kind, really–all evil is distorted good). So I wouldn’t rule out a belief or practice just because it was associated with Christians killing people (as your attitude to other religions clearly is). But if I’m going to worry about apparent good leading me into Satan’s clutches, that is where I will start.

I am not saying there is no truth in Buddhism of Hinduism as God writes his precepts on the heart. Do unto others and such. I seriously doubt even Hinduism or Buddhism stress mystical experiences but just being a good person.

Agreed. And most yoga has nothing to do with “mystical experience” in any kind of dramatic paranormal sense. That’s why your polemical sources are distorting your picture of yoga.

Why are you picking on Gopi Krishna as your representative figure, anyway? If you are right, above, he didn’t think that mystical experience came from God, which does not make him a typical Hindu at all.

Edwin

 

[cjforJesus]

No, no, I don’t think so, although as human beings we are sexual creatures, but seeking holiness rather than sensuality.

In that case Krishna was wrong. But wasn’t Krishna before The Word came into being.

“No” to the last two questions in your previous post, btw. I think you misunderstood my dialogue concerning the link I provided but it doesn’t matter really.

The last point about connection and our Maker respecting our free will you made in this post is interesting actually.

sorry for the confusion,I was referring to the 60s guru Gopi Krishna.

No the last point I made was that God does not violate free will.I wrote nothing about connection and our Maker. He wants us to chose the right path and that path does not include allowing serpents to possess our body to mold and manipulate.

 

[friardchips]

Are all mystical experiences just expressions of the libido? Krishna contends that along with the claim that Jesus was just an avatar no different than Budda or Mohammed. I understand that nothing should be rejected of other religions that is good but I do not know a Christian who could reconcile an alleged force that seeks to control the practitioner once it is activated. We have free will and God never violates that.

Why, do you see a problem with ‘mystical’ experiences generally, Christian and non-Christian?

 

[friardchips]

sorry for the confusion,I was referring to the 60s guru Gopi Krishna.

Oh, I see. Well this guy was far removed from our planet then, seemingly, or at least theology. Maybe he meant well.

No the last point I made was that God does not violate free will. He wants us to chose the right path and that path does not include allowing serpents to possess our body to mold and manipulate.

I am not disagreeing with you.

 

[cjforJesus]

Why, do you see a problem with ‘mystical’ experiences generally, Christian and non-Christian?

Because,my friend,mystical experiences are easily imitated by lucifer. Read the writings of the saints and how even they were tempted and how it takes a very holy person and a discerning one to outwit lucifer. He is always waiting for a willing soul who wants an “experience” As St JOhn of the Cross said lucifer is very willing to provide it. After all he was an angel of light.

 

[cjforJesus]

I seriously doubt that masonic texts know anything about seething energies, and I strongly suspect that you are getting your information from some polemical Christian source.

As a Christian, I know what made Lucifer fall. It was pride. Not “seething energies.”

Yes, one can dabble in exotic spiritual practices out of pride and “curiosity” in the pejorative medieval sense (which is a form of pride). But one can also reject the unfamiliar and alien out of pride.

I think that Christians killing people is probably as close to Mystery Babylon as we get.

So when talking about how to avoid the snares of Satan, my starting question is, “how can I best avoid the attitudes that have led Christians to kill people?”

I don’t mean that this is the only question, or that it’s not possible to go too far in the other extreme, or that fundamentally good impulses can’t be distorted (indeed, there are no other kind, really–all evil is distorted good). So I wouldn’t rule out a belief or practice just because it was associated with Christians killing people (as your attitude to other religions clearly is). But if I’m going to worry about apparent good leading me into Satan’s clutches, that is where I will start.

Agreed. And most yoga has nothing to do with “mystical experience” in any kind of dramatic paranormal sense. That’s why your polemical sources are distorting your picture of yoga.

Why are you picking on Gopi Krishna as your representative figure, anyway? If you are right, above, he didn’t think that mystical experience came from God, which does not make him a typical Hindu at all.

Edwin

It is my understanding that Hindu mystical experiences are actually caused by 2 gods.That is their belief anyway.

Gee,Ed,you really seem to be picking on Christians a bit. I believe Jews as well as Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus have probably killed.It is not religion that makes people hate and kill.