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TMC
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Or the rosary. Or Matins. Or red hats for Cardinals. Or Cardinals, for that matter.
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friardchips
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Mystical experiences are not all from Lucifer. St. John of the Cross would second that! If all mystical experiences were from Lucifer then we would not have to “discern the spirits”, between what is good and evil, would we?! There are fallen angels, and there are Heavenly angels who respond to us via grace. To deny mystery and the mystical as part of faith is to deny the spiritual realm altogether! The very fact that you have Christian faith in the Trinity in the first place is a mystical happening, a miracle, even before you decide to explore your prayer life in a fuller way. There may be a big difference between what is a Christian vision or mystical experience to a non-Christian one, because as Christians, to venture outside of solid Christianity is to enter the unknown (practice as opposed to simply investigating). Contemplation and meditation is a big part of Christian prayer, and I think we could safely regard it as patient listening. If you talk incessantly to someone without ever listening wouldn’t you think the other person might consider you a bit rude, or at least, lacking consideration. Why is it any different in prayer?
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friardchips
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Just to add, St. John of the Cross did not say that Lucifer IS an angel of light. It is recorded as being said that Lucifer can POSE as an angel of light. Lucifer WAS regarded as a beautiful angel before he fell from Heaven. He is not an angel of light anymore but rather the deceitful tempter.
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agnes_therese
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You completely misunderstand detachment. I suggest we leave off this discussion.
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friardchips
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Okay. Moving on…
catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-trouble-with-yoga
In one part, the writer warns against fundamentalists who would suggest that every time Yoga is practiced, there the devil be. As far as I was aware, the devil is not omnipotent, so not sure how he could be always present; nevertheless, the rest of this obviously well-researched article seems to be really good advice, and especially useful for those who think Christian Yoga is a great idea and for those who are not sure. :hypno:
catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-trouble-with-yoga
In one part, the writer warns against fundamentalists who would suggest that every time Yoga is practiced, there the devil be. As far as I was aware, the devil is not omnipotent, so not sure how he could be always present; nevertheless, the rest of this obviously well-researched article seems to be really good advice, and especially useful for those who think Christian Yoga is a great idea and for those who are not sure. :hypno:
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cjforJesus
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Friardchips,there is no such thing as Christian yoga,it is merely stretching. Any Christian can stretch and exercise as it is healthy but to incorporate the doctrines of chakras and kundalini and reincarnation would be wrong.Yoga means yoking or becoming one with God. Christian “yoga” would just be an exercise class.
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cjforJesus
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I never said lucifer is and angel of light.I wrote after all he WAS. He can appear as a good angel to deceive and lead people away from God.
One of the chief manifestations of a luciferic initiation according to David spangler,an occultist.is an experience of light,bliss and love. How does one discern? I believe by testing the fruits and by obedience. The Spirit of Truth does not deny Jesus Christ.
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Contarini
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Perhaps one discerns by not taking the word of David Spangler, whoever he may be.
One also discerns by basic moral and spiritual criteria.
Edwin
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friardchips
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friardchips
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Good morning! Have you read the article I have linked to all the way to the bottom of the page because if not please do if you have time.
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friardchips
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First of all, because Satan is not omnipresent does not rule out his minions from presenting themselves instead.
Second, why are you reading excerpts from an occultist?
Third, our Creator does not wait until we are perfect before He guides us.
Fourth, not all contemplation is bad. Because to say this is to call our Creator evil and that, my friend, is blasphemy. I would however say that anyone who is doing Yoga, as opposed to Christian practices of prayer, and receives any ‘light’ or ‘peace’ from it, could do with a spiritual director to help discern if this is from our Maker.
Fifth point, fruits come from prayer. There is a famous prayer by none other than St. Therese of Calcutta which says as much. Prayer comes first. This way we know that the work we do is what our Creator had in mind, and/or we bring our Creator into our work.
Sixth point, is that it is good that you see action as very important to one’s spiritual life, however, even Pope Emeritus said that charity devoid of attributing these works to our Creator does not hold the same spiritual value, although atheists who do good works are orienting themselves more in line with our Creator, without knowing, and opening themselves up to love - this is logical.
Seventh, who is to say that what your occultist writer deems to feel like love is the same as what a Christian who is bothering to pray experiences as love. I would say that if an occultist experiences light and such things these do not come close to the love of our Creator, as real love cannot come from Satan. This is a decidedly dodgy remark you have made, IMO, and I’d stop there. There is no comparison. There is a story about St. Pio and how Satan appeared to him as an angel of light and (I think) pretended to be our Lord, however, the Vatican, and probably St. Pio too, were able to distinguish between whether it was Satan or our Lord. The difference would be the ‘love’ or simply a vague feeling of peace that one feels during the experience (I would imagine). Now this means that the two can be easily distinguishable after pondering in prayer. I think it is blasphemy to suggest that pretend light from Satan can truly imitate love from our Creator.
…hence, my point about Satan being able to POSE as an angel of light, but not BE an angel of light. This is solid reasoning to my way of thinking.
Eighth, before you go judging for yourself what is good and evil in others throughout the history of contemplation, with use of your occultist source, please attempt prolonged Christian prayer yourself. I am not and never would advise Yoga but certainly sitting down and being still with He who wishes us to do this, is a good thing, as He said to us: “Be still and know that I am…”, from the Psalm.
Prayer comes first.
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friardchips
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- “…and/or we invite our Creator into our work”, not “bring”.
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cjforJesus
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What if this alleged power in our bums is what the gnostics were doing and what if that power is the same thing the Egyptians used to enslave the Israelites?
- “…and/or we invite our Creator into our work”, not “bring”.
Jesus said there is only one way to test the spirits and that is to ask it if it denies Jesus came in the flesh.
The fruits of the Spirit are love and peace and obedience not barking and rolling on the ground and seeking sex with random people just for power.
This cannot be something good at all because satanist use it too .
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christofirst
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friardchips
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I believe the person who does Christian Yoga is doing Yoga AND praying.
There is a saying that goes: 'You can’t smoke while you pray but you can pray while you smoke’.
Well, I don’t smoke, but I could reword this saying: “I wouldn’t work while I pray but I can pray while I work”.
If I were to have a conversation with you, and it was important, deep, soul level stuff, and you were occupying yourself by doing other things at the same time as talking to me, even though this was supposed to be time set aside for us to speak, then I would consider it insensitive, even though I still heard what your (name removed by moderator)ut was; or, maybe I didn’t respond to your (name removed by moderator)ut because I required your full attention and was hurt by your lack of it.
If you read the link I provided you will see a very important section from the CCC quoted further down the page. I am going to post it either way as it is relevant.
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friardchips
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Reposted link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=12955704
‘For the Christian, prayer is an unmerited gift. There is effort involved, but no specific technique will ensure us a productive result.* “Prayer is both a gift of grace and a determined response on our part. It always presupposes effort. The great figures of prayer of the Old Covenant before Christ, as well as the Mother of God, the saints, and he himself, all teach us this: prayer is a battle. Against whom? Against ourselves and against the wiles of the tempter who does all he can to turn man away from prayer, away from union with God”* (CCC 2725).’
forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=12955704
‘For the Christian, prayer is an unmerited gift. There is effort involved, but no specific technique will ensure us a productive result.* “Prayer is both a gift of grace and a determined response on our part. It always presupposes effort. The great figures of prayer of the Old Covenant before Christ, as well as the Mother of God, the saints, and he himself, all teach us this: prayer is a battle. Against whom? Against ourselves and against the wiles of the tempter who does all he can to turn man away from prayer, away from union with God”* (CCC 2725).’
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cjforJesus
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There is no such thing as Christian yoga,it is merely an exercise class.It is just a fancy name they give to it to seem modern.True yoga seeks to arouse a serpent.Ask any guru.Reposted link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=12955704
‘For the Christian, prayer is an unmerited gift. There is effort involved, but no specific technique will ensure us a productive result.* “Prayer is both a gift of grace and a determined response on our part. It always presupposes effort*. The great figures of prayer of the Old Covenant before Christ, as well as the Mother of God, the saints, and he himself, all teach us this: prayer is a battle. Against whom? Against ourselves and against the wiles of the tempter who does all he can to turn man away from prayer, away from union with God” (CCC 2725).’
Pope Francis said you will not find God doing any kind of yoga,He also said you will not find Him by reading any books even the catechism.
Live your life trying to do good.Accept the suffering along with the graces and realize how much God loves us all.It is really very simple.You do not have to do contortions or exercise or do mantras. Just follow the 10 commandments like Jesus said and obey the Church.
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cjforJesus
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I read somewhere a while back,I think it was St Catherine who was confronted with a false apparition of Jesus.When she realized it she prayed about how to discern the difference.Jesus told her that when He is responsible for an apparition the person will experience fear and awe because they are in the presence of their Maker. When the evil one tries to seduce a feeling of wellbeing and bliss will happen but be a false peace
. St Teresa said that contemplation is merely a fixed gaze at Jesus.It is being with the One who loves us. St Teresa is a doctor of the Church and she did not experience any consolations or closeness with God until probably 30 years of vocal prayer and meditation.
Friadchips,you can pray while you are sitting at a stop light,or making dinner or even in the shower.Prayer is talking to God and listening to what He says. I have had MANY answers to prayers so I just keep trying to obey the commandments and be a good person. I am not looking for any special consolations or favors because I know God loves me even though I have tons of faults.
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friardchips
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True. Very nice. Although you forgot about praying and receiving the Sacraments. Prayer and Church are vital. Christian mantras i.e:- contemplation and meditation, is food for us. I agree that Christian prayer does not include Yoga for reasons I’ve stated above and throughout this thread. The CCC is for reference, which is what Pope Francis means, he doesn’t mean we can’t read it. The CCC is a good thing not a bad thing!There is no such thing as Christian yoga,it is merely an exercise class.It is just a fancy name they give to it to seem modern.True yoga seeks to arouse a serpent.Ask any guru.
Pope Francis said you will not find God doing any kind of yoga,He also said you will not find Him by reading any books even the catechism.
Live your life trying to do good.Accept the suffering along with the graces and realize how much God loves us all.It is really very simple.You do not have to do contortions or exercise or do mantras. Just follow the 10 commandments like Jesus said and obey the Church.
Take care.
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