Agreed. The Pope used the word “can”, maybe meaning that we “can” do lots of things, for good, or bad, or neutral, we have free will, but not all lead to where we wish. And so what you say above naturally follows this reasoning.
It leaves us in the second paragraph of section #28
Yes, beautiful. And how many do hear His voice? And what does it sound like? Isn’t knowing how to listen what contemplation really is all about? And if it is true listening it must also be at least a momentary suspension of all the things we think we know, all our opinions and judgments. In the silent core at the center of our being we become available to God beyond our own small wants. Physical stretching can assist in the easing of our restless minds, in the taming of our distractions, in the quality of our listening. If we do not find Jesus in that silent core, we certainly will not find him anywhere in the outer world.
As you are well aware, I think, unless you have forgotten, I already answered this which you put forward way, way, way back in the thread, and to which you gave no well-reasoned answer, so not sure why you are veering the argument away from the points at hand, unless you mean to disrupt the flow of the thread.
This again is simply avoiding the most recent debates in the thread by simply pretending they haven’t been said. That is not debate. If your sole intention is to win an argument, well, this is not what this thread is about. Thanks, Michael.
This is not what the latest debate on this thread is about. Between you and Michael, you are again veering around the latest arguments and instead going back to old points which have already been dealt with. And you have been present in the thread for a long time so you could do with remembering this so we don’t keep going in circles back to old dialogue. Is this always a feature in debate with those who wish to ‘defend’ Yoga?!
Thanks for reminding us… again.
I think it is important to remember as well that this document, On Some Aspects of Christian Meditation, was issued in 1989 under the direction of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, AKA Pope Benedict XVI, known for his doctrinal expertise and his exceptional attention to detail. His inclusion of the above paragraph, a clear caveat, or exception, to the warnings which are also in the document, certainly cannot be accidental or an oversight. The same goes for this passage, which comes just before the paragraph you quoted:
"In prayer, the whole man must enter into relationship with God, and so his body should also take up the position most suited to recollection."
Now it sounds like we are being given options here. If a meticulous man like Benedict meant to say, “And this means on your knees with rosary in hand, or at the adoration chapel,” why would he offer the more ambiguous, “and so his body should take up the position most suited to recollection.”? Having just mentioned yoga earlier in the document, and given the later passage which you quoted, it seems to me that certain postures of yoga could indeed be included in the potential positions that are conducive to genuine Christian prayer.
Not that there’s anything wrong with the rosary or the chapel - quite the opposite! - but we clearly have options - a good thing!
I am not trying to “win” anything. I am sharing my view. If all you want this thread to be about is “argumentation”, then you are wasting your time.
I recall it was you who tried to skate around the question, “What genuine practices of meditation which come from the great non-Christian religions are being referred to?” I think by saying it was addressed to Indian Catholics or something.
Michael, respectfully, please go back yourself through the thread, and remind yourself of the dialogue we have already had concerning your latest arguments (in which then as now you used the same quote way out of context to ‘defend’ Yoga). Why should I have to go back and do this for you?
No, you stopped responding, when I helped you to separate the context in the documents they are addressing. When sourcing documents, we have to get specific, as to the reason they were written, otherwise, they lack meaning and substance, or rather, we don’t benefit from the goodness that is in them written for us to digest.
What is your goal in this thread? To convince others that yoga is evil?
Alright, allow me to respond to this then. If I pray while doing yoga postures, then my yoga postures are prayer. If I am able to pray while I work (sometimes I can, and sometimes I can not) then my work becomes prayer. Can you understand this? I acknowledge your statement about giving God undivided attention, but I’ll be honest with you: I am far more often distracted at Mass or in private prayer than I am when I do my yoga stretches. There’s something about focusing the body that helps to calm and focus the mind, for me at least.
No. Rather to ascertain reasons why Yoga has been pronounced as unwise for Christians to practice despite the endeavours of self-acclaimed ‘Christian Yoga’ gurus.
Your premise needs qualification then.
Perfect common sense. Just don’t call it “Yoga” for the more scrupulous. Call it athletic or therapeutic stretching. Or why not Prayer of the Body?
Thank you.
Sorry to hear this, it sounds painful. No one is judging your motive of seeking remedy for pain. This is an assessment of Yoga from a spiritual perspective.
We have been issued advice to not seek spiritual answers in Yoga practice. This includes all Yoga, otherwise a specific type of Yoga would have been specified. This angle too, has already emerged during conversation, not far back in the thread. I suggest you not only read his words again but also yet another document you have just mentioned which does not highlight what you just suggested as being true. I know because I read the document thoroughly and commented on it myself further back in the thread!
…sorry, also, to add to my last questions just posted, are you then saying that you do Yoga because you can’t focus on prayer, and so acknowledging that you are in fact just practicing Yoga AND praying; because, earlier on, you posted the details of ‘Christian Yoga’ books, which suggests not just doing Yoga in order to feel relaxed enough to then concentrate on prayer but that you are intentionally attempting to combine Yoga practice with prayer as if you believe Yoga is a ritual needed during prayer?
Are you aware that chastity is a form of yoga?This includes all Yoga, otherwise a specific type of Yoga would have been specified.