You ain't seen liturgical abuse......

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Looks like a Thugee cult leaping around in honor of the goddess Kali.

Nothing surprises me any more.
 
The dance segment appears to have been a performance piece inserted AFTER the final blessing, since the recessional hymn begins immediately after the dance segment ends. So technically, it is not “liturgical.” The Knights filed into the procession, just as they would had the dancers not done their “thing.”

While I find this clip not to my taste, I believe it is technically within the bounds of permissible. I have sympathy for the bishop. Bishops have to smile through a lot of things that make them cringe.
 
“until you see the sort of madness the Bishop of the Diocese of San Bernardino is prepared to preside over. He can be seen recessing, along with the Catholic faith, one might add.”

cathcon.blogspot.com/2007/10/you-aint-seen-liturgical-abuse.html

Something happened after Vatican II and it is on the negative side.
No no no my friend. You see, you are in error. This stuff doesn’t happen. Just read through what some of our esteemed posters have said on this forum. Why we make these things up. There is no or very little abuse going on. In fact, most people have never seen such things.

Just admit it, you staged the whole thing didn’t you?. I mean, after all, if abuses aren’t happening what other explanation could there be?
 
The dance segment appears to have been a performance piece inserted AFTER the final blessing, since the recessional hymn begins immediately after the dance segment ends. So technically, it is not “liturgical.” The Knights filed into the procession, just as they would had the dancers not done their “thing.”

While I find this clip not to my taste, I believe it is technically within the bounds of permissible. I have sympathy for the bishop. Bishops have to smile through a lot of things that make them cringe.
Why? The Bishop is in charge isn’t he? I mean they didn’t change that after Vatican II did they? He is still in charge of the Diocese and what happens there, or have I been misinformed again.
 
Why? The Bishop is in charge isn’t he? I mean they didn’t change that after Vatican II did they? He is still in charge of the Diocese and what happens there, or have I been misinformed again.
Can you show that the performance violated the GIRM?

How much advance notice do you think they gave the bishop?

From what one can tell from the clip, it was outside the Mass proper, and although not to my taste or yours, the performance was actually quite good. I saw this as showing off for the bishop (maybe not the best motive, but how is that different from a showy organ postlude? Life is messy.
 
The dance segment appears to have been a performance piece inserted AFTER the final blessing, since the recessional hymn begins immediately after the dance segment ends. So technically, it is not “liturgical.” The Knights filed into the procession, just as they would had the dancers not done their “thing.”

While I find this clip not to my taste, I believe it is technically within the bounds of permissible. I have sympathy for the bishop. Bishops have to smile through a lot of things that make them cringe.
Stop it right now, those of you on these Forums who are continually making allowances for abuses - and abominable ones at that - and deeming them “permissible”!

Notice the church in the round, with overhead fluorescent lighting?

Notice any statues? Any Stations of the Cross? The restlessness of the “audience”? (What, you think I’m going to call them a “congregation”?!)

Notice the “audience” applauded the performers when the latter were done? Why not? This part of the ceremony is “the glorification of the laity”.

The pastor and liturgical coordinator and music director of this “community” (surely it can’t be a church, now, can it?) should be removed from their positions immediately, if not sooner. This, of course, assumes, the bishop was blind-sided by the whole debacle. If he was in on it, he needs to go, too.

Imagine: the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church conforming to the present age and its overdone multi-culturalism.

Downright tragic. :mad:

Other than that, I have no strong feelings on the matter, one way or another.
 
How this can be accepted in the presence of Christ in the tabernacle is beyond me. Or maybe the tabernacle has been conveniently removed out of sight so dancers can do their thing. Or maybe these Catholics don’t believe Christ is present in the tabernacle. Maybe the bishop and laity don’t understand what the lit candle means. I don’t care if it is technically outside of the Mass. The Bishop does not have to grin a bear it. He could forbid it.
 
How this can be accepted in the presence of Christ in the tabernacle is beyond me. Or maybe the tabernacle has been conveniently removed out of sight so dancers can do their thing. Or maybe these Catholics don’t believe Christ is present in the tabernacle. Maybe the bishop and laity don’t understand what the lit candle means. I don’t care if it is technically outside of the Mass. The Bishop does not have to grin a bear it. He could forbid it.
:newidea: If the Forum Moderator is tuned in, perhaps CAF can create a new Forum where neo-modernist, liberal, anything-goes, spirit-of-vatican-2 crackpots can wax poetic over such “abomination(s) of desolations … in the holy place”. :rolleyes:
 
What is a “holy place” to me, may not be a “holy place” to you, and visa versa. :eek:
 
Can you show that the performance violated the GIRM?
You mean where does it say not to allow the Watusi (a dance of limited popularity for a short time in San Bernadino County in the 1960’s) in front of the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the tabernacle in the year 2007? I don’t think the GIRM covers that.
 
Can you show that the performance violated the GIRM?

How much advance notice do you think they gave the bishop?

From what one can tell from the clip, it was outside the Mass proper, and although not to my taste or yours, the performance was actually quite good. I saw this as showing off for the bishop (maybe not the best motive, but how is that different from a showy organ postlude? Life is messy.
And you know you’re right. After all, the Mass is actually nothing more than another venue for man to show off in front of others. Actually, why not completely do away with the Mass and just have a communal gathering with plays skits dances and maybe a potluck dinner. Afterwards everyone can just do anything they want to and they’ll all be happy.

Just in case you have forgotten, the Mass is really not the place to give a show for the Bishop. Sorry but it isn’t. I must assume this Parish? has a hall or a parking lot where they could have the performances that they wanted.

As far as advance notice, I’m pretty sure the Bishop knew what was going to take place. Even if they seem to be on occasion clueless, they are really quite aware of what goes on in their respective parishes.
 
The video is no longer available.

That said, it is not Vatican II that is at fault. It is people who do not bother to read the papers of Vatican II and think they can do as they please who are at fault. :mad: From the comments, it appears this is one of those situations.
 
Actually, if you read some of the documents attributed to Francis Cardinal Arinze on the Adoremus home page, you will find that he is very much against the idea of liturgical dance, especially in the West. I thnk that Redemptionis Sacramentum even covers that. Of course, Cardinal Arinze is also against music that sounds like it should be performed at a pub instead of a church. He made those two points (dance and music) quite clear during a recent interview on Raymond Arroyo’s “The World Over” program on EWTN.

Now, as far as dancing by indigenous cultures is concerned, there is a very strong Mexican tradition of having the Matachines (indigious people of Aztec ancestry) dance before Our Lady of Guadalupe during her feast day. What the matachines will do is process into the church (berfore the liturgical procession) and then do their “sacred” dance before an image of Our Lady of Guadalupe. After their dance has ended, the entrance hymn is sung and the liturgical procession makes its way down the aisle.

The 'dance" is very tasteful and the costumes are quite modest. Just the same, this particular ritual is performed right before the Mass.
 
It’s still there. The option to embed the video in other web pages has been disabled, but you can view it on the original Youtube page. youtube.com/watch?v=g08eksHjZG8
All the worst of african dance, kabuki theater, and Shakey’s Pizza (words to the songs on the wall). The Knights’ honor guard is hte oly thing that made sense.
 
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