you are not welcome here...

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Sarcasm aside…I was alluding to the tendency of many Catholics to permit the abortion issue to hijack their lives, including of course their better judgment.

What sarcasm?

I’ll just say it: I found your response to be ridiculous. It trivialized the abortion issue, made a nonsensical connection to “politics”, and ignored the clear teaching of the Church on this specific issue (which is that those who persist in explicitly supporting legal abortion are to be DENIED HOLY COMMUNION).

 

[Jacob_Fenton]

Now, GladCatholic doesnt sound too glad and Nordar sounds almost angry. When did we all become judgmentally fundamentalist?

I don’t think I was trying to raz on anyone and if it came across that way, I’m really sorry. I wasn’t trying to offend anyone. I was only trying to step into the shoes of the poster as best I could. I’m a conservative Catholic who follows Church teaching.

Brothers and sisters, why do we seem to leap on each other so quickly? Doesn’t Galations 6:10 say we should be good to all but especially our brethren?

Now, I don’t know what “traditionalist” is but I venture to guess that it’s a way of saying someone keeps sternly pre Vatican II traditions. DON’T QUOTE ME THOUGH!! Before someone tears this apart, I am making it clear that I don’t know what “traditionalist” is.

Look, I’m sorry. I was trying to stick up for the original poster when it seemed like not many others would.

 

[GailMac]

Did anyone hear what was read today at Mass? Just in case not, I’ll repeat it…Ezekiel 33:7-14----7 So thou, O son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore thou shalt hear the word from my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. 8 When I say to the wicked: O wicked man, thou shalt surely die: if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked man from his way: that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. 9 But if thou tell the wicked man, that he may be converted from his ways, and he be not converted from his way he shall die in his iniquity: but thou hast delivered thy soul.

I think the evil of abortion needs to be spoken about. I don’t really care about the delivery! Wonder how this guy would’ve handled a yeller! I had one and he was beautiful! But some folks prefer ear ticklers who keep everything nicey nice.

Peace,

Gail

 

[GladCatholic]

Jacob, I believe what you said about your trying to help out the OP, but when it comes to religion, it never pays to be devil’s advocate. The OP kind of came in slamming on a priest without giving many details on why, and it’s at a point in time where the Church could really use some good priests to step up to the plate and tell it like it is. Our church has been wounded by many things, but the saddest of all are the shepherds who aren’t doing their jobs.

So if I came across as not glad (and trust me, I’m glad just like my name says–more joy in this heart than I would think it could hold), I apologize…I’m just getting really tired of a lot of hits this church is taking because of poor leadership…

GladCatholic

 

[Maureen_Fiore]

I believe the Pastor of this parish hit the nail on the head by stating that if you are in a state of mortal sin then you need to refrain from Communion. Our pastor makes a comment once in a while about the long lines to Communion and the short lines to Confession. Obviously, we are all ready to receive Communion but many of us don’t ask for forgiveness as readily as we should. I also believe that many of our Catholic politicians who are pro-choice need to reflect more about this evil deed.

 

[Nordar]

Now, GladCatholic doesnt sound too glad and Nordar sounds almost angry. When did we all become judgmentally fundamentalist?

I don’t think I was trying to raz on anyone and if it came across that way, I’m really sorry. I wasn’t trying to offend anyone. I was only trying to step into the shoes of the poster as best I could. I’m a conservative Catholic who follows Church teaching.

Brothers and sisters, why do we seem to leap on each other so quickly? Doesn’t Galations 6:10 say we should be good to all but especially our brethren?

Now, I don’t know what “traditionalist” is but I venture to guess that it’s a way of saying someone keeps sternly pre Vatican II traditions. DON’T QUOTE ME THOUGH!! Before someone tears this apart, I am making it clear that I don’t know what “traditionalist” is.

Look, I’m sorry. I was trying to stick up for the original poster when it seemed like not many others would.

Why would you say I was angry? what I objected to was your seeming defense of the OP.
I don’t know? when did we all become judgemental fundamentalists? If it is judgemental to say that a Priest who defends the teaching of the church is an Assest to have in any Parish, then I guess I am judgemental.
I get than you were trying to stick up for the OP so then means because I disagree with you I am angry? or if others do we are all judgemental fundamentailists?

 

[KingAlfred]

What sarcasm?

I’ll just say it: I found your response to be ridiculous. It trivialized the abortion issue, made a nonsensical connection to “politics”, and ignored the clear teaching of the Church on this specific issue (which is that those who persist in explicitly supporting legal abortion are to be DENIED HOLY COMMUNION).

I rest my case. Don’t forget to BREATHE when you get this way.

 

[wynnejj]

Did anyone hear what was read today at Mass? Just in case not, I’ll repeat it…Ezekiel 33:7-14----7 So thou, O son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore thou shalt hear the word from my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. 8 When I say to the wicked: O wicked man, thou shalt surely die: if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked man from his way: that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. 9 But if thou tell the wicked man, that he may be converted from his ways, and he be not converted from his way he shall die in his iniquity: but thou hast delivered thy soul.

I think the evil of abortion needs to be spoken about. I don’t really care about the delivery! Wonder how this guy would’ve handled a yeller! I had one and he was beautiful! But some folks prefer ear ticklers who keep everything nicey nice.

Peace,

Gail

Right on target.

 

[Fran65]

Don’t you think its great that all have the same readings right around the world?

Isn’t this another sign of our community and cohesiveness?

It cheered me anyway.

 

[dang71]

sorry that i have not been as quick to respond, but maybe some could look on this as a way to grow in the virtue of PATIENCE

let me just say, this thread is not about abortion. it is about an attitude displayed by a priest that, IMHO, only drives people further away from the church, rather than bring them back into communion.

should pro-abortion “Catholic” politicians be given communion?
no, they should not.

should anyone in a state of mortal sin receive communion?
no.

is saying “not welcome at this communion rail” the same as saying “not welcome in this church”?
no, but for those who are pro-abortion, they will interpret it as the same.

is the “not welcome” comment appropriate for a priest?
i think not. why not invite them to confession? why not invite them to a private meeting with the priest? why couldn’t he say “if you are pro-abortion, please see me before receiving communion”?

is the “not welcome” comment correct?
no it is not. not welcome means not wanted. Jesus wants EVERYONE to come to Him, and as i have stated in this thread several times, those in a state of sin are still WANTED, but they must first correct their situation.

the whole point of this thread, which very few have actually figured out, is that we win over more sinners by acting out of love and compassion, but still holding on to (and actually living) our true Catholic values. abortion is wrong, yes, but no sinner is won over by some angry Christian telling them they are “not welcome”. we want people to convert/revert, not be driven further away. as someone else in this thread asked, when has anyone ever been converted/reverted by a Christian taking the strong-arm “your not welcome” attitude? Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, and i ask you, is it loving your neighbor to tell them they are not wanted, and acting in a way that drives them away from the church?

 

[dang71]

Did anyone hear what was read today at Mass? Just in case not, I’ll repeat it…Ezekiel 33:7-14----7 So thou, O son of man, I have made thee a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore thou shalt hear the word from my mouth, and shalt tell it them from me. 8 When I say to the wicked: O wicked man, thou shalt surely die: if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked man from his way: that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but I will require his blood at thy hand. 9 But if thou tell the wicked man, that he may be converted from his ways, and he be not converted from his way he shall die in his iniquity: but thou hast delivered thy soul.

I think the evil of abortion needs to be spoken about. I don’t really care about the delivery! Wonder how this guy would’ve handled a yeller! I had one and he was beautiful! But some folks prefer ear ticklers who keep everything nicey nice.

Peace,

Gail

i have never stated we should NOT talk to sinners, only that we should speak to them out of love and compassion, rather than a condescending, nasty attitude.

and this bible quote you listed only reiterates my point, if you speak to the sinner and through your actions they are driven further away, will you not be held accountable for that?

 

[dang71]

if you are in a state of mortal sin then you need to refrain from Communion.

but this pastor said “not welcome”, which means the same as not wanted. and he said it in a really condescending, confrontational way. this is NOT the same as telling someone to refrain from communion UNTIL they can return to a state of grace.

 

[fix]

sorry that i have not been as quick to respond, but maybe some could look on this as a way to grow in the virtue of PATIENCE

let me just say, this thread is not about abortion. it is about an attitude displayed by a priest that, IMHO, only drives people further away from the church, rather than bring them back into communion.

should pro-abortion “Catholic” politicians be given communion?
no, they should not.

should anyone in a state of mortal sin receive communion?
no.

is saying “not welcome at this communion rail” the same as saying “not welcome in this church”?
no, but for those who are pro-abortion, they will interpret it as the same.

is the “not welcome” comment appropriate for a priest?
i think not. why not invite them to confession? why not invite them to a private meeting with the priest? why couldn’t he say “if you are pro-abortion, please see me before receiving communion”?

is the “not welcome” comment correct?
no it is not. not welcome means not wanted. Jesus wants EVERYONE to come to Him, and as i have stated in this thread several times, those in a state of sin are still WANTED, but they must first correct their situation.

the whole point of this thread, which very few have actually figured out, is that we win over more sinners by acting out of love and compassion, but still holding on to (and actually living) our true Catholic values. abortion is wrong, yes, but no sinner is won over by some angry Christian telling them they are “not welcome”. we want people to convert/revert, not be driven further away. as someone else in this thread asked, when has anyone ever been converted/reverted by a Christian taking the strong-arm “your not welcome” attitude? Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, and i ask you, is it loving your neighbor to tell them they are not wanted, and acting in a way that drives them away from the church?

We all were not there to hear what exactly was said. You already have concluded that the words spoken would drive people away. I cannot see how that is fair to conclude? People that choose to leave may rationalize all types of reasons rather than accept what ought to be accepted.

It is easier to say I am leaving becuase I am “unwelcome” than to reflect on what was actually said and why it was said.

Again, the truth will only be received to the degree one is open to receiving it. People often will claim the “tone” was the problem when in fact the tone is not the real issue.

 

[dang71]

It is easier to say I am leaving becuase I am “unwelcome” than to reflect on what was actually said and why it was said.

i don’t disagree, but you must also be honest to yourself and everyone on this thread and recognize that the condescending attitude, at the very LEAST, doesn’t help.

Again, the truth will only be received to the degree one is open to receiving it. People often will claim the “tone” was the problem when in fact the tone is not the real issue.

again, i don’t disagree, but if the tone is corrected, then the people cannot claim that as an excuse, and will have to look deeper at the message. having people look deeper at the truth is exactly what we want, so the obstacle of nasty attitudes should be removed.

 

[fix]

i don’t disagree, but you must also be honest to yourself and everyone on this thread and recognize that the condescending attitude, at the very LEAST, doesn’t help.

Why do you impute such a thing to the priest?

again, i don’t disagree, but if the tone is corrected, then the people cannot claim that as an excuse, and will have to look deeper at the message. having people look deeper at the truth is exactly what we want, so the obstacle of nasty attitudes should be removed.

There is always some who will complain about something when the message is one we rather not hear.

 

[fix]

Let’s concede your point for one minute. Let’s say the tone was too harsh for most. Even given that there is no reason for anyone to leave especially folks who claim to be Catholic and have been there for years.

 

[jmcrae]

Why do you impute such a thing to the priest?

Priests are human beings, too - and some of them do come off with a haughty attitude, at times.

There is always some who will complain about something when the message is one we rather not hear.

So, why give them something? Make them work for their excuses; don’t just hand them a reason to reject the message.

 

[maggiemay2u]

sorry that i have not been as quick to respond, but maybe some could look on this as a way to grow in the virtue of PATIENCE

let me just say, this thread is not about abortion. it is about an attitude displayed by a priest that, IMHO, only drives people further away from the church, rather than bring them back into communion.

should pro-abortion “Catholic” politicians be given communion?
no, they should not.

should anyone in a state of mortal sin receive communion?
no.

is saying “not welcome at this communion rail” the same as saying “not welcome in this church”?
no, but for those who are pro-abortion, they will interpret it as the same.

People who are looking to find fault with the rules, generally will. The priest’s words seem to draw a pretty clear distinction to me, and I am by no means the brightest bulb on the marquee. If someone interprets the words “communion rail” for “church”, then it’s obvious the person is looking for liturgical cover. They need a reason to be “driven from the church”, instead of admitting they’ve driven themselves away, IMHO.

is the “not welcome” comment appropriate for a priest?
i think not. why not invite them to confession? why not invite them to a private meeting with the priest? why couldn’t he say “if you are pro-abortion, please see me before receiving communion”?

How do you know he hasn’t? Maybe the counseling and confession haven’t worked, and the pro-aborts continue to receive. The priest is in the position of either calling them out by name or issuing a general, stern, no nonsense warning. Maybe he was looking directly at them when making the statement.

Maybe he loves them that much.

How much easier it would be to be non-confrontational in the face of evil. How much better liked he would be. One only has to look at our society scene bishops to see how well that’s worked out. Have they demonstrated love by not being more pro active in religious matters? I think not.

is the “not welcome” comment correct?
no it is not. not welcome means not wanted. Jesus wants EVERYONE to come to Him, and as i have stated in this thread several times, those in a state of sin are still WANTED, but they must first correct their situation.

the whole point of this thread, which very few have actually figured out, is that we win over more sinners by acting out of love and compassion, but still holding on to (and actually living) our true Catholic values. abortion is wrong, yes, but no sinner is won over by some angry Christian telling them they are “not welcome”. we want people to convert/revert, not be driven further away. as someone else in this thread asked, when has anyone ever been converted/reverted by a Christian taking the strong-arm “your not welcome” attitude? Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, and i ask you, is it loving your neighbor to tell them they are not wanted, and acting in a way that drives them away from the church?

I see your pastor as a good father, willing to risk the ire of his children to protect them. With all due respect, unless you are one of the pro-abortion folks, you don’t know that this priest hasn’t counseled the congregants, and they’ve simply ignored him.

 

[fix]

Priests are human beings, too - and some of them do come off with a haughty attitude, at times.

Sure, but we are required to presume the best. Why would Catholics with a long history suddenly leave the Church because of what one priest said?

So, why give them something? Make them work for their excuses; don’t just hand them a reason to reject the message.

Anything can be an excuse and often is. If not his tone, then something else. The problem is not the priest.

 

[Lee_M]

I’m shocked more priests don’t get mad. It is a sacrilege for pro-abortion supporters to be receiving communion and they are not welcome at the communion rail. People should be getting mad. Pro-abortion Catholics defy what Catholicism is all about.