They are most certainly traditions that have their origins among Christians. There is nothing inherintly wrong with human traditions. Protestants practice plenty of human traditions, along with Sola Scriptura. Most of them, such as the ones listed above this post, do not nullify the commandment of God, like SS does.
Luke was the first to use the adjective “kath holos” to describe the Church throughout the world. The term was in regular use by AD 107, as it was used formally by Ignatius.
I don’t think so. I think it is centered around authority. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura was invented to facilitate the rejection of those who were in authority over the Church.
Although this is a false statement, this is an excellent example of a man made tradition (that cannot be found in Scripture) that nullifies the commandments of God.
You are right. The term “Catholic”, adopted by the Church to describe herself, was coined in the Eastern Church, quite a long time before the Latin (Roman) Rite emerged as a separate Rite in the Church.
This would be an interesting quote to start a thread.
I think the core of the debate is how the decision is made about what is “essential”. Jesus told His Apostles to teach “all that I have commanded”. For some reason, modern evangelicals think they have the authority to decide what is “essential” or not from what He taught.
How so? And, are you referring to the Early Church Fathers (ECF’s) prior to 325 A.D.? Are you discounting any changes made as the result of any Ecumenical Councils, or discounting Ecumenical Councils in general, including those, which were involved in the formation of the Bible? Also, what are your thoughts regarding the Didache, or the “The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles”, dated from 70 A.D. or earlier, and the references to the Eucharist, for example? Finally, in your opinion, which Church today, most closely resembles that of the “Church of the Earlier Church Fathers”? I would argue that that would be the Roman Catholic Church and we can start with the chronological list of Popes and the Supremacy of the Pope.
I came here initially to witness to Muslims. I have been doing this on various forums for over 8 years. I was actually able to help one that was sitting on the fence to jump over to become a Christian.
Have you ever heard of fellowship?
Then why the need for Bible studies? And why do preachers need to go to seminary?
It was* insufficient* in providing us with a list of books which would be considered Scripture. A non-biblical source–Catholic bishops–were needed to determine this.
The Trinity concept is in the Holy Bible as I have already pointed out.
Wow.
For the Catholic I would say it is important to show you that some of the Catholic Doctrines are truly Scriture based. In fact I think, might be wrong here but all the doctrines about Jesus are Scripture based.
The Trinity is absolutely, you must be able to connect the dots. Yes and why the Jehovah Witnesses need their own translation.
This is interesting. A person trying to talk a Bible believer out of believing the Trinity unless they believe in it for the same reason they do.
I am absolutely not trying to talk him out of believing in the Trinity. I am trying to point out that Scripture is NOT clear on the Trinity. The Bible supports the concept, it does not clearly spell it out.
So you are sure enough about your ability to convince them about tradition to risk that…I am absolutely not trying to talk him out of believing in the Trinity. I am trying to point out that Scripture is NOT clear on the Trinity. The Bible supports the concept, it does not clearly spell it out.
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? I think you give Shiack very little credit. It’s not my job to convince him about anything, I am simply explaining to him why Scripture alone is shaky ground to stand on.
Led right back. He’s questioning me as much as I’m questioning him… funny how you’re not worried about my faith being crumbled. Oh I do not know anything about Shiack. I do know lots of people read these. I always think it is an odd thing for people to do trying to talk people out of believing the Trinity or the Bible.? I think you give Shiack very little credit. It’s not my job to convince him about anything, I am simply explaining to him why Scripture alone is shaky ground to stand on.
Furthermore I have been one of those Christians who was led AWAY by questions. Questions about the Bible completely destroyed my faith in the church. Years later here I am.
Questions are important. If he can’t handle these questions on a message board how will he handle them when he meets someone face to face to has the very same questions and won’t allow him time to ponder?
I was a non-Christian most of my life, I understand atheism well.
I’m sorry if you find this difficult. I appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut. However, I am far easier to deal with then many, many, many people out there. I have debated Scripture with atheists… with hard-core haters of the Christian faith. That’s a lot harder to deal with.
So. Do you believe Scripture alone is enough for a Christian who is seeking to live a fully Christian life? Is Scripture alone enough for Salvation?
I’d say no to Salvation because Scripture does not save us.
I’d also say no to the first because if we do not understand what we’re reading how can it help us to grow as Christians? “How can I know if no one teaches me?”
Then we are in agreeance.
And that’s what I believe. And that’s why I believe Scripture is not enough. Scripture means nothing if I have no one who can explain it to me.