You gave it to us.....lets read

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Rence said:
You’re absolutely right: it is forbidden to make, have or worship false gods and their images. We, on the other hand worship God and God only.

We create and have images in His likeness ( as we interpret them, as in Michelangelo’s creation of the world), and in the likeness of Christ, Mary and the saints to honor them. Not to worship them. We do not worship Mary and the saints. We only worship God, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Further, we do not worship our artistic creations that represent God. Those artistic creations are to honor Him.

There is no where in the Bible that says we cannot create images of God, in His honor, and there is no where in the Bible that says we cannot honor Mary and the saints by representing them in art.
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When did I mention anything about worship?
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
I DID NOT mention worship. Repeat, I DID NOT mention worship. Those verse say that you should not make images of male or female, or of animal…etc…

That’s what it says. You should not have them. Once again, God instructed those things to be built, but forbids others.
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You did not mention worship, but God does. He was teaching the people against idolatry. Idolatry is concerning images that are worshipped.

Let me ask you something Truth Seeker123. Do you celebrate Christmas? Do you put up nativity scenes, or enjoy viewing them? Do you place an angel on top of the tree? Do you send out Christmas cards with images on them? Do you have a picture of Jesus anywhere around? Is there any difference in those images and the images you’re thinking about in Catholic Churches?
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
I DID NOT mention worship. Repeat, I DID NOT mention worship. Those verse say that you should not make images of male or female, or of animal…etc…

That’s what it says. You should not have them. Once again, God instructed those things to be built, but forbids others.
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You are absolutely right: we are forbidden to have images of false idols, whether in the form of male, female, or of animal. I don’t understand why you think we do 🤷
 
Rence said:
You are absolutely right: we are forbidden to have images of false idols, whether in the form of male, female, or of animal. I don’t understand why you think we do 🤷
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But you do have images.
 
Now you are getting the point, God can allow image as he instructed and he forbids those are considered idol.

what are those images that are allowed, the image of the Angels, whether its crafted through the Ark of the Covenant and Images of Angels are also visible on wall of the Holy Temple.

Now, what are those forbidden, the image of an idol who has a body of a man and a head of the bird, a face of a pig, the golden calf or basically, things you cannot see on Heaven and does not have any heavenly connections.

As you can see in the Catholic church, you can see images of people whether statue or paintings whom are Saints, who are in heaven including the Holy Mary Mother of the Lord., and most of all the Image of Christ who is God Incarnate and what he has done on earth.

The Church actually is following what the original temple is supposed to be. “Heaven on Earth” and that is not forbidden. The church can actually identify what is idolatry and which is not.
Truth_Seeker123 said:
I think you are forgetting that those things were instructed by God. But in the verses I posted those things were forbidden by God. If they are forbidden, why are they done?
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“KJV Deuteronomy 4:15-20” said:
15 Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 16 Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, 17 The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, 18 The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: 19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. 20 But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.
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Let’s take a look at this. No where does it say “do not make images.” What it does say can be paraphrased as follows: If you regard an image (whether its the moon or a golden calf) as God you will not receive God’s gift for you.
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
But you do have images.
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Of course I have images, why wouldn’t I? It’s forbidden to have images of idols. I have no images of idols.

I don’t mean to be mean, but this is getting old. First you ask us what we think of three verses, we tell you, and you argue about it by comparing apples to oranges.

And I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but why do you care if I have images? Just because I have images (pictures, figures - again, notably NOT of idols), doesn’t mean you have to. If you don’t want to have images, by all means, don’t. But I don’t get why you care if I do…🤷

Your eyes must bleed every time you walk outside your door: all one sees is images…:eek:
 
marlo said:
Now you are getting the point, God can allow image as he instructed and he forbids those are considered idol.

what are those images that are allowed, the image of the Angels, whether its crafted through the Ark of the Covenant and Images of Angels are also visible on wall of the Holy Temple.

Now, what are those forbidden, the image of an idol who has a body of a man and a head of the bird, a face of a pig, the golden calf or basically, things you cannot see on Heaven and does not have any heavenly connections.

As you can see in the Catholic church, you can see images of people whether statue or paintings whom are Saints, who are in heaven including the Holy Mary Mother of the Lord., and most of all the Image of Christ who is God Incarnate and what he has done on earth.

The Church actually is following what the original temple is supposed to be. “Heaven on Earth” and that is not forbidden. The church can actually identify what is idolatry and which is not.
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Can you provide scripture with these things? I would love to read it for myself. I think that it is fair that if I provide scripture, you do the same.
 
Rence said:
Of course I have images, why wouldn’t I? It’s forbidden to have images of idols. I have no images of idols.

I don’t mean to be mean, but this is getting old. First you ask us what we think of three verses, we tell you, and you argue about it by comparing apples to oranges.

And I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be rude, but why do you care if I have images? Just because I have images (pictures, figures - again, notably NOT of idols), doesn’t mean you have to. If you don’t want to have images, by all means, don’t. But I don’t get why you care if I do…🤷

Your eyes must bleed every time you walk outside your door: all one sees is images…:eek:
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I wasn’t talking about YOU, but in your church. I have seen many images in the likeness of men and women in the catholic church, but God clearly forbids that. That is Scripture. You can read it for yourself.
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
This is off topic. Why do you ask?
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Actually, it’s not off topic. There are many Protestant denominations that celebrate Christmas, have pictures of Jesus or crosses mounted inside or outside their Churches. Your condemnation, according to your interpretation, crosses more lines than just Catholic.

I ask about the authority of who explained your interpretation to you, because scriptures teach us the people of the Old Testament had to have an ‘authority’ to explain scriptures to them.

**Nehemiah 8

1And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.

2And Ezra the priest brought the law before the congregation both of men and women, and all that could hear with understanding, upon the first day of the seventh month.

3And he read therein before the street that was before the water gate from the morning until midday, before the men and the women, and those that could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive unto the book of the law.

4And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.

5And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people) and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6And Ezra blessed the LORD, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the LORD with their faces to the ground.

7Also Jeshua, and Bani, and Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, caused the people to understand the law: and the people stood in their place.

8So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.**

It’s not off topic, since you’re explaining an interpretation of scriptures, as you understand it, to us…
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
Can you provide scripture with these things? I would love to read it for myself. I think that it is fair that if I provide scripture, you do the same.
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You provided scriptures that forbade us from having images of false gods. You did not provide scriptures that said other images were forbidden. Can you please provide those for us? Since you are the one insisting that you are right, you have the burden of proof.
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
I think you are forgetting that those things were instructed by God. But in the verses I posted those things were forbidden by God. If they are forbidden, why are they done?
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Why would God instruct to be done - That which He Himself has forbidden?

Peace
James
 
Truth_Seeker123 said:
Nope…nor a cross

I have my Bible. I had to add that lol
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Yet when you speak of having no graven image in your home, are you saying there are no pictures on the wall? How about a TV set? Family photos?

The prohibition is stated as:
*Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. *

That’s everything that can be seen.

Or doesn’t that count and only our statues, stained glass and other artwork count?
 
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