You must not challenge the NO Mass

[pickguard1]

If all else fails, pray?

Before I was Catholic I used to say that our best course of action we only seem to use as a last resort. With all that Catholic spirituality has to offer, how much more this need apply.

Thanks for jumping in, Fr. Keebler.

Well said and amen to that. It’s easy to overlook prayer, simply because you don’t necessarily get any immediate visible results from it (not that anyone gets any immediate results by vocally criticising abuses, either - but at least you feel like you’ve “done something” to further human discussion on the topic.) This kind of ties into my previous post in that, it doesn’t really take being vocal to be “actively participating” in tyring to bring unity and harmony to the church. Prayer is our best weapon against Satan, and of course should be our first recourse when we see him working to subvert our unity in Christ.

 

[EnchantedEve]

Good Morning Folks:

The typical argument against the Novus Ordo is typically an argument against abuses in the Mass and general secularization. Interestingly, this topic seems to be much hoter today than even ten years ago. That leads me to believe things are far from settled.

Personally, I love the Novus Ordo Mass. I also love the Tridentine Mass and a Fr. Mark (FSSP) in nearby Dayton gave me a great EWTN DVD on the Extraordinary Rite and I am very grateful. I also plan to attend a Tridentine Latin Mass when I have the opportunity.

We need to make the distinction between abuses and secularization expressions in the Novus Ordo Mass compared to a solid Novus Ordo Mass. While interior participation will always be necessary the Novus Ordo Mass offers more possibilities for active participation in the Liturgy and this trend really began as far back as Pope Saint Pius X. The so called “Dialogue Mass” (Tridentine) of the 1950’s was popular.

The true renewal needs to happen in the clergy. If the daily life of the priest is a factory on the sacramental plane and personal interior life isn’t happening, the mass will be valid but reverence will be compromised. In other words, orthodoxy may be presnt but where is the Charity?

What is the solution? Pope Benedict XVI has called for a renewal of devotion to the Sacred Heart. This devotion was described as the essence of the Christian life by Pope Pius XII. Interior life remains the key and if the Novus Ordo is seen as “flat” the guarantee is the Mass isn’t flat, we are.

God bless,

Fr. Bill keebler
Richmond, IN

Your Reverence, with all due respect to your exalted office, I am afraid I must disagree with some of what you have stated here.

For some like myself, I have more concerns than just abuses in the Mass, but rather with matter of more substance, that is, with the New Mass itself, even if celebrated in the most orthodox possible way. It is not a matter of whether or not we like the New Mass. I attend the New Mass and fulfill my Sunday obligation at it. In fact, until I was 12 years old I did not know any other Mass existed. So I don’t lose sleep over the New Mass, but I must confess myself concerned about both the manner in which it was created, how it has been practiced, and the fruits it has produced. These concerns are not removed even if said in Latin and according to the rubrics. (Although it helps ALOT!)

However, the balance of what you is say is certainly true. We will not see true change unless we see a renewal in both the priesthood and the laity. Perhaps it is right when they say we do not know what we have, until it is gone. May this be a lesson to us Catholics!

May Our Lady, who is Mother of all priests, and St. John Marie Vianney, patron of parish priests, be your guide, Father, in your journey in Faith and in enacting the Most Immemorial Sacrifice. My prayers to the Sacred Heart are with you.

 

[Ockham]

Interior life remains the key and if the Novus Ordo is seen as “flat” the guarantee is the Mass isn’t flat, we are.

Thank you for contributing to this discussion Father Keebler. Your time spent here offering us guidance is most appreciated. It was such a blessing to have regular contact with a priest prior to the shortage. If it wasn’t for websites and blogs most of our interactions would be limited to exchanging greetings with our parish priest after Sunday Mass. We should all pray daily for a renewal of those accepting God’s calling to the priesthood.

Based on surveys and a lot of anecdotal evidence it certainly appears a significant portion of our Church has indeed fallen flat. In my business practice if an undesired outcome gets identified as a problem, then a root cause analysis occurs prior to a search for the solution. Those who identify themselves as Traditional Catholics often point to the Novus Ordo Mass that was created after Vatican II as the root cause of the decline in our Church today.

There is no dispute to the sudden change in North American Catholic life since the sixties (I’m not aware of non North American statistics on number of priests, seminarians, active parishioners, etc). The question then becomes: what went wrong? One possiblility is the attempts at reform in general after Vatican II had the opposite result. Another would be to single out the NO Mass. However, some here will argue that if it hadn’t been for the "spirit of Vatican II’ changes (most notably the NO) we’d be in worse shape given the cultural changes in the Western world and the pressures they put on the devout and apathetic alike.

From my research, “active participation” wasn’t originally defined as vocalizing prayer during Mass. However, that is how we now view it along with increased liturgical participation from the laity. What isn’t clear is whether vocalizing the Our Father while standing increases interior participation as opposed to hearing it in Latin while kneeling as in the TLM. I’m sure many regular Sunday worshippers are effectively just going through the motions and following the congregation - actively participating with an absent interior.

The NO Mass is certainly more prone to liturgical abuse than the TLM. It has been pointed out that the TLM suffered from abuse also, but those charges are limited to tempo and pronounciation. I’ve yet to see any evidence of a priest dressed up as a clown, giant puppets, dancing, or any other notorious innovations at a TLM pre or post council. There must be tremendous pressure on a priest by modernist parishioners when bishops and even cardinals can’t resist taking unauthorized liberties with the liturgy.

Yet, criticism of the NO isn’t limited to liturgical abuse. The essential elements may be included but so much of our culture, history, and doctrine was removed. The TLM is more of a prayer and by the increased amount of reverence given to the Blessed Sacrament one would have to be extremely obtuse to miss the miracle of transubstantiation. The TLM also bears the four marks of the Church (one, holy, catholic, apostolic). As Catholics we trace our Church’s origin to Christ Himself and worshipping at a TLM is a connection through time to saints and brethren. Given the different languages, options, and creation date of the NO it is difficult to see the four marks on it. It may be licit and appeal to many, but there is a break with tradition and decrease in reverence in a NO Mass regardless of active participation levels.

What is clear is the need to reverse the trends in our Church today or soon we’ll be out of priests. Our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI has told us we need to revisit the council documents and properly interpret the spirit in which they were given to us. Isn’t this to mean what has been known as the “spirit of Vatican II” was either erroneous or imbedded with ulterior motives? The Pope is giving us examples of his intentions by only distributing Holy Communion to those on their tongue while kneeling. He has brought the TLM back to us and rumours indicate more of it will be incorporated into the NO. While the majority of seminaries are sparsely attended, those of the FSSP have waiting lists.

Unless I’m reading these signs incorrectly, it appears Pope Benedict XVI in his role of Christ’s representative on Earth is guiding us back towards the traditional Mass of the Church. Hopefully this is not just a liturgical preference of a mortal man, but the Holy Spirit acting in the best interests of us all, to identify a root cause and offer us a solution.

If the NO satisfies the interior life of some and even reached out to others outside the Church, bringing them back in then, we should all be grateful. Personally, discovering the TLM has been the most significant event in my spiritual life and strengthened my interior profoundly. If our Church has been crumbling these past few decades perhaps a greater discovery of our traditional liturgy would build it back up.

May God bless you,

 

[pickguard1]

Ockham - I couldn’t have expressed my sentiment any better than you have. It goes beyond the abuses and novelties. This isn’t to criticise the licitness or holiness of the Novus Ordo, only to point out how much of our rich tradition is so painfully missing in action, so to speak.

While it might be argued that much of the changes have a root in the culture itself, rather than the changes to the mass, one has to take into consideration the means by which the culture has been so easily able to supplant the doctrine, rites, and rubrics of the Church. If our Shield (meaning clear teaching on the Mass and Catholic doctine, as well as the discipline to back it up) were as strong as ever, the culture that has sprung up since the revolution of the sixties and seventies would have had a much smaller impact IMHO, and I think that a good analogy to this shield metaphor would be to say that in the middle of battle, the Church decided to upgrade its armor (Vatican II), but forgot to get it custom fitted (ambiguities in Vatican II), so while the material may be more suited to the battle (addressing current issues and developing social doctrine) at hand, there are still gaping holes that effectively negate the advantages of the better material. Better to go back to the inferior armor that fits, IMO while the new armor gets custom fitted!

 

[weepixie71]

i was born in 1971 and was raised in the novus ordo mass. as i grew with the mass i watched more and more be stripped away from it. i think when you attend a novus ordo mass on a regular basis you see it and acknowledge it but it doesnt hit home how many disciplines and traditions were stripped until you start attending the tridentine mass more frequently.

so for me, when i attend a novus ordo mass, i feel like im offering hot dogs and chips when i could be offering a steak dinner, a potato with all the toppings and a fresh green garden salad at the tridentine mass. i know this is not the best example but its the best i could come up with at the moment.

the problem i see, and i could be wrong i often am, is some people feel this way about traditions and disciplines of the mass while others feel like :shrugr .

 

[damooster]

Here’s a hypothetical question for you guys:

If an OF Mass is celebrated properly (no abuses) and reverently, is it on par with the EF Mass, or do you guys still believe the EF Mass is superior?

I ask because I attend Mass at two different parishes: my RCIA parish is full of abuses (and I won’t be going there any more) and my home parish is very reverent and “by the book.” I enjoy Mass at my home parish very much.

I do plan on attending an EF Mass as soon as I can gather up the courage to (the EF Mass intimidates me).

Thanks.

 

[pickguard1]

Here’s a hypothetical question for you guys:

If an OF Mass is celebrated properly (no abuses) and reverently, is it on par with the EF Mass, or do you guys still believe the EF Mass is superior?

I ask because I attend Mass at two different parishes: my RCIA parish is full of abuses (and I won’t be going there any more) and my home parish is very reverent and “by the book.” I enjoy Mass at my home parish very much.

I do plan on attending an EF Mass as soon as I can gather up the courage to (the EF Mass intimidates me).

Thanks.

First off - don’t be intimidated by the EF! I would say the best way to get comfortable with it is to make sure you have a good Missal with side-by-side English/Latin translation, and be familiar with it before you go. It could take a while to get used to the page turning and knowing which part you are in - just ask for help. No one is going to think less of you - I promise

As for would the OF be on par with the EF - it depends on which aspects you are talking about. Grace of the sacrament? Always equal provided it is validly confected and received, even now. As for everything else? I think that objectively the EF would still be higher on my list simply because it holds more tradition, is more consitent (you know what to expect - so sudden changes aren’t a distraction) For example, even in a perfectly celebrated OF in Latin, you might still be guessing at which Eucharistic prayer is being used, which form of the Canon, etc. Not so in an EF.

My argument would end like this - if you get a perfect OF mass in Latin, what changes were made to it from the EF that were all that necessary in the first place? Pretty much the only changes would be the readings/calendar, and a stripping down/removal of a lot of prayers. Does removing prayers make it better? Not in my opinion. I would say, why not say the whole EF in English if you really want/need the vernacular?
So - same grace? YES Equal ritual and spriritual inspiration? NO

 

[MarthaTherese]

THE NEW LITURGY

In 1969, Pope Paul VI issued a New Order of the Mass, the Novus Ordo Missae. Up to that time, what is commonly referred to as the “Tridentine” or “Latin” Mass, was used by the Church. On the face of things, it may seem to be a simple matter for the Pope to change the Mass. It has been done before. Is there a difference, then, between the modifications made by Paul VI and the liturgical changes of the past? There is a radical difference, and one that has had disastrous consequences for the universal Church.

THE NEW MASS CONTRADICTS TRADITION

The “Tridentine” or Roman Rite Mass, while it has developed organically over the 2,000 year history of the Church, is essentially the Mass that was given to the Apostles and the Church by Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Although various rites emerged, they all maintained the same spirit imparted to the liturgy by Our Lord and were only adapted to various cultures without any deviation in doctrine. The Roman Rite, up to Vatican II, underwent only minor changes, such that the famous English liturgist Fr. Adrian Fortescue was able to state that “no one has ventured to touch it except in unimportant details.”

Pope St. Pius V, to protect the Roman Rite from innovations and eliminate any variations, codified the Traditional Latin Mass in the Apostolic Constitution Quo Primum in 1570. The Mass that he was confirming was not some new creation like the Novus Ordo Missae, but a Mass that matched in every respect the Faith of the Apostles. Nor was it the Mass of some particular area of the Church like the Eastern rites, but the universal rite of the Church, the rite of the Roman See. His bull says in part:

"We specifically command each and every patriarch, administrator, and all other persons or whatever ecclesiastical dignity they may be, be they even cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, or possessed of any other rank or pre-eminence, and We order them in virtue of holy obedience to chant or to read the Mass according to the rite and manner and norm herewith laid down by Us and, hereafter, to discontinue and completely discard all other rubrics and rites of other missals, however ancient, which they have customarily followed; and they must not in celebrating Mass presume to introduce any ceremonies or recite any prayers other than those contained in this Missal.

"Furthermore, by these presents , in virtue of Our Apostolic authority, We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used. Nor are superiors, administrators, canons, chaplains, and other secular priests, or religious, of whatever title designated, obliged to celebrate the Mass otherwise than as enjoined by Us. We likewise declare and ordain . . . that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid and retain its full force . . .

(The complete Apostolic Constitution “Quo Primum” of Pope St. Pius V (July 14, 1570) is available in print from Angelus Press (angeluspress.org/) or online (papalencyclicals.net/Pius05/p5quopri.htm).

I could not agree more with this post. This is the only explanation anyone should need to know that all the abusive changes made in the NO are in error. Instead of being shy or afraid of offending people who attend NO with all it’s abuses, we are instructed by Our Lord to shout from the rooftops and lead those in darkness into the light.
This is NOT schismatic! It’s just the simple truth.
Your sister in Christ.

 

[Ockham]

I do plan on attending an EF Mass as soon as I can gather up the courage to (the EF Mass intimidates me).

I agree with Pickguard - don’t be intimidated, but be prepared. It is a different form of worship than the NO. To paraphrase Carla from Cheers, it’s not a Mass for wimps. Your local TLM church may have translated missals available for use, but if not it’s a good idea to get one. The bounded leather missals cost around fifty bucks. There are smaller ones for ten or so. If last resort, print a translation off the web. I haven’t actually bought a missal yet as I’ve been using my mother-in-laws she purchased in the fifties. It’s a joyful feeling praying in the same missal a woman who means so much to me used to use. I also suggest watching a few Masses on-line to get an idea of the differences. Basically, it’s a higher form of prayer, more reverance, tradition, and awe. It’s the Mass St. Thomas Aquinas attended!

 

[pickguard1]

It’s a joyful feeling praying in the same missal a woman who means so much to me used to use.

Aboslutely! My mother gave her mother’s St. Joseph Missal to my wife as a gift. I think she got that missal in the fifties as well and it’s so cool to see my wife (a convert from the Baptist faith) use the same missal my beloved grandmother used. It’s hard to get that sort of multigenerational connection with the OF mass, as even my St. Joseph missal I received at my First Communion back in 1986 didn’t go beyond 2000, I think and its now very difficult to tell what year the OF calendar is in (A, B, or C) - probably rendering it effectively useless for future generations, except as a memento.

 

[Ockham]

I have an OF missal that I use with the Liturgy of the Hours. The two additional years make it too big to bring to Mass. With my mother-in-law’s St. Joseph Missal it is not merely my Mass translator, but has increased my prayer habits. Before I discovered the TLM I would say a few prayers before Mass and usually deep reflection after Communion. Now I use the missal to say the 129th psalm and the Prayer of St. Thomas Aquinas before, deep reflection after Communion along with the Anima Christi. I never knew these prayers before and tears usually fill my eyes during the Anima Christi - it is so powerful and beautiful at once. After Mass rather than making a bee line for the door I stay and pray the Indulgence Before A Crucifix and the Divine Praises. Of course before the TLM we recite the rosary together too. The thing is, most people at the TLM gets there early and stays late - in prayer. As respectful as I try to be with our NO Mass crowd, I’ve never seen that much reverence and respect at one. Isn’t there a saying that goes like, you believe as you pray?

Sorry for rambling…it appears we have similar experiences.

 

[pickguard1]

I never knew these prayers before and tears usually fill my eyes during the Anima Christi - it is so powerful and beautiful at once. After Mass rather than making a bee line for the door I stay and pray the Indulgence Before A Crucifix and the Divine Praises. Of course before the TLM we recite the rosary together too. Isn’t there a saying that goes like, you believe as you pray?

…it appears we have similar experiences.

Yes, similar experiences indeed. I hadn’t even heard of the term “indulgence” until I started going to a TLM (fancy that!) and my missal, like yours has so many prayers I had never heard of (the Anima Christi and Prayer before a crucifix included) I especially like the Act of resignation to the Divine Will " O lord, my God, I now readily and willingly accept at Thy hand whatever death it may please You to send me, with all its pains, penalties and sorrows." I find that it helps keep my mind turned towards those things necessary to avoid as many of the pains, penalties and sorrows as possible (especially the eternal ones!)

I believe the Latin saying is “Lex orandi, lex credendi” The law of prayer is the law of believing - that is, how you pray is how you believe.

 

[damooster]

I bought a 1962 missal as kind of a mistake: I thought it was the missal for the OF Mass. So, I’ll have that if/when I go to an EF Mass.

I’m mostly concerned with receiving the Eucharist as I was taught to receive on the hand and not really sure how to receive while kneeling.

 

[pickguard1]

I bought a 1962 missal as kind of a mistake: I thought it was the missal for the OF Mass. So, I’ll have that if/when I go to an EF Mass.

I’m mostly concerned with receiving the Eucharist as I was taught to receive on the hand and not really sure how to receive while kneeling.

The 1962 missal will be fine. As for communion, you receive kneeling and on the tongue. Depending on where you go there may be an altar rail across the whole sanctuary (possibly with kneelers, possibly not), or conversely a couple fo portable kneelers placed at the center of the main aisle at the bottom of the sanctuary. When you get there you kneel, and the priest moves down the line of communicants (if it’s an altar rail) distributing communion. When he gets to you, the altar boy will hold a patten under your chin (to prevent the Blessed Sacrament from falling to the floor should it fall from the priest’s hand or off your tongue). The priest will take a host, make the sign of the cross in front of you with it saying the words “Corpus Domini Nostri Jesu Christe custodiat animam tuam ad vitam aeternam, Amen.” which means “May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ bring your soul to everlasting life, Amen.” You don’t say “Amen” afterwards - he just places the host on your tongue and then moves to the next communicant.

For me it is very moving to kneel at the foot of the sanctuary to receive Our Lord, and the prayer at reception by the priest is so much more rich - simply because it presupposes agreement that it IS the Body of Christ and asks graces from Jesus right at the moment of reception, whereas I take the NO form of the priest saying “The Body of Christ” and then “Amen” by the recipient as kind of a challenge - that is, the priest is making sure you know that this is the Body of Christ (as opposed to assuming you do), and then waiting for you to affirm your belief.

 

[PJM]

Good Morning Folks:

Fr. Bill Keebler here. I’ve not posted for a while so I thought I would weigh in on the discussion on the New Order of the Mass.

We want to be sure we are making distinctions to begin with. i remember when I went off to seminary I did not see the point of all the Logic courses and philosophy in general, but as grace builds on nature, so too does Faith unite with right reason.

The typical argument against the Novus Ordo is typically an argument against abuses in the Mass and general secularization. Interestingly, this topic seems to be much hoter today than even ten years ago. That leads me to believe things are far from settled.

Personally, I love the Novus Ordo Mass. I also love the Tridentine Mass and a Fr. Mark (FSSP) in nearby Dayton gave me a great EWTN DVD on the Extraordinary Rite and I am very grateful. I also plan to attend a Tridentine Latin Mass when I have the opportunity.

We need to make the distinction between abuses and secularization expressions in the Novus Ordo Mass compared to a solid Novus Ordo Mass. While interior participation will always be necessary the Novus Ordo Mass offers more possibilities for active participation in the Liturgy and this trend really began as far back as Pope Saint Pius X. The so called “Dialogue Mass” (Tridentine) of the 1950’s was popular.

The true renewal needs to happen in the clergy. If the daily life of the priest is a factory on the sacramental plane and personal interior life isn’t happening, the mass will be valid but reverence will be compromised. In other words, orthodoxy may be presnt but where is the Charity?

What is the solution? Pope Benedict XVI has called for a renewal of devotion to the Sacred Heart. This devotion was described as the essence of the Christian life by Pope Pius XII. Interior life remains the key and if the Novus Ordo is seen as “flat” the guarantee is the Mass isn’t flat, we are.

God bless,

Fr. Bill keebler
Richmond, IN

Hi Father,

We were almost neighbores. I moved to Florida from Greenville, Ohio [about 30 miles from Richmond Ind.]

I have a sense that their are an GREAT Many Bishops and Priest who strongly desire at a minimum a “status quo” on THE NO Mass.

They seem very adament about Ordinary Ministers of the Eucharist, Lay Lectors, Holy Communion under both species, and the like.

I find personaly that these are modifications to Vatican II teachings that have not done Spiritualy good things, and indeed have caused GREAT Spiritual damage to the Bride of Christ.

PEW report stats are clear evidence that the innonvations have failed.

Still, God is in charge, and in the end, I know that while we may “lose this battle,” Chrsit win’s the war!

The EWTN Daily Mass shows that even the NO Mass, can be said with reverence.So we know that it can be done.

Love and prayers,

Patrick

 

[EnchantedEve]

Thank you for contributing to this discussion Father Keebler. Your time spent here offering us guidance is most appreciated. It was such a blessing to have regular contact with a priest prior to the shortage. If it wasn’t for websites and blogs most of our interactions would be limited to exchanging greetings with our parish priest after Sunday Mass. We should all pray daily for a renewal of those accepting God’s calling to the priesthood.

Based on surveys and a lot of anecdotal evidence it certainly appears a significant portion of our Church has indeed fallen flat. In my business practice if an undesired outcome gets identified as a problem, then a root cause analysis occurs prior to a search for the solution. Those who identify themselves as Traditional Catholics often point to the Novus Ordo Mass that was created after Vatican II as the root cause of the decline in our Church today.

There is no dispute to the sudden change in North American Catholic life since the sixties (I’m not aware of non North American statistics on number of priests, seminarians, active parishioners, etc). The question then becomes: what went wrong? One possiblility is the attempts at reform in general after Vatican II had the opposite result. Another would be to single out the NO Mass. However, some here will argue that if it hadn’t been for the "spirit of Vatican II’ changes (most notably the NO) we’d be in worse shape given the cultural changes in the Western world and the pressures they put on the devout and apathetic alike.

From my research, “active participation” wasn’t originally defined as vocalizing prayer during Mass. However, that is how we now view it along with increased liturgical participation from the laity. What isn’t clear is whether vocalizing the Our Father while standing increases interior participation as opposed to hearing it in Latin while kneeling as in the TLM. I’m sure many regular Sunday worshippers are effectively just going through the motions and following the congregation - actively participating with an absent interior.

The NO Mass is certainly more prone to liturgical abuse than the TLM. It has been pointed out that the TLM suffered from abuse also, but those charges are limited to tempo and pronounciation. I’ve yet to see any evidence of a priest dressed up as a clown, giant puppets, dancing, or any other notorious innovations at a TLM pre or post council. There must be tremendous pressure on a priest by modernist parishioners when bishops and even cardinals can’t resist taking unauthorized liberties with the liturgy.

Yet, criticism of the NO isn’t limited to liturgical abuse. The essential elements may be included but so much of our culture, history, and doctrine was removed. The TLM is more of a prayer and by the increased amount of reverence given to the Blessed Sacrament one would have to be extremely obtuse to miss the miracle of transubstantiation. The TLM also bears the four marks of the Church (one, holy, catholic, apostolic). As Catholics we trace our Church’s origin to Christ Himself and worshipping at a TLM is a connection through time to saints and brethren. Given the different languages, options, and creation date of the NO it is difficult to see the four marks on it. It may be licit and appeal to many, but there is a break with tradition and decrease in reverence in a NO Mass regardless of active participation levels.

What is clear is the need to reverse the trends in our Church today or soon we’ll be out of priests. Our Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI has told us we need to revisit the council documents and properly interpret the spirit in which they were given to us. Isn’t this to mean what has been known as the “spirit of Vatican II” was either erroneous or imbedded with ulterior motives? The Pope is giving us examples of his intentions by only distributing Holy Communion to those on their tongue while kneeling. He has brought the TLM back to us and rumours indicate more of it will be incorporated into the NO. While the majority of seminaries are sparsely attended, those of the FSSP have waiting lists.

Unless I’m reading these signs incorrectly, it appears Pope Benedict XVI in his role of Christ’s representative on Earth is guiding us back towards the traditional Mass of the Church. Hopefully this is not just a liturgical preference of a mortal man, but the Holy Spirit acting in the best interests of us all, to identify a root cause and offer us a solution.

If the NO satisfies the interior life of some and even reached out to others outside the Church, bringing them back in then, we should all be grateful. Personally, discovering the TLM has been the most significant event in my spiritual life and strengthened my interior profoundly. If our Church has been crumbling these past few decades perhaps a greater discovery of our traditional liturgy would build it back up.

May God bless you,

Amen, my friend.

 

[MarthaTherese]

I bought a 1962 missal as kind of a mistake: I thought it was the missal for the OF Mass. So, I’ll have that if/when I go to an EF Mass.

I’m mostly concerned with receiving the Eucharist as I was taught to receive on the hand and not really sure how to receive while kneeling.

I was blessed to be given a real 1962 missal, but I also bought a new one on E-bay. They are reprinted from the original and bound beautifully. Cost $60 and well worth it.
It’s so easy and reverent to receive kneelng: just kneel down on both knees, put your hands together in prayer and lift your chin and open your mouth. If, like in some churches, they don’t have a kneeling rail or won’t allow kneeling (yes, some priests say it “disrupts the Communion”) then just do the same while standing. Priests are not allowed to refuse your demonstrated request to receive on the tongue. Make the sign of the Cross and say Amen as usual.

 

[pnewton]

**This is NOT schismatic! It’s just the simple truth. **

Since you are new, let me in on the fact that most of us know the difference between truth and opinion. Shout your opinion all you want, but you will deceive ot this difference no one by using bold text.

 

[pnewton]

Unless I’m reading these signs incorrectly, it appears Pope Benedict XVI in his role of Christ’s representative on Earth is guiding us back towards the traditional Mass of the Church. ,

If you read his words instead of trying to read into actions, you would no this is not the case. He said that there is no question that we are not going back in his book on liturgy. I typed up the quote on another thread. I would not be surprised to see some elements incorporated back into the Mass, as the first reform of the liturgy incorporated elements lost for centuries.

 

[pickguard1]

If you read his words instead of trying to read into actions, you would no this is not the case. He said that there is no question that we are not going back in his book on liturgy. I typed up the quote on another thread. I would not be surprised to see some elements incorporated back into the Mass, as the first reform of the liturgy incorporated elements lost for centuries.

I believe I saw your post with that quote, but I think that the Holy Father IS in some ways guiding the CHurch back to the traditional mass, it isn’t the elimination of the OF, but rather re-translating the varnacular to fit more closely with what the missal of 1962 had, such as responding “and with thy spirit” instead of “and also with you”, or the words of consecration returning to “for many” ranther than “for all.” So in that sense, there is a return. But you are right, I don’t think the Holy Father intends to abrogate the Mass of Paul VI.