"You must respect your wife."

[CB_Catholic]

I think it is always wise to examine the priorities in life. The very first one, which is not negotiable, is that God comes first in all things, and that His will be done. Nothing comes before God. Thus, if you have examined yourself and prayed and truly sought the will of the Lord, and find that the Holy Spirit is calling you into the Catholic Church, you must obey God.
(Note that I did not say “feel” that you are being called into the Church, because feelings are subjective. If you are convinced that the Catholic Church holds the fullness of TRUTH, that is the path to be followed.

Then, rely on God to take care of the other things. Of course you must respect your wife. That is different from respecting her wishes, and giving in to them, which is where I think the confusion lies. Always treat her with love and respect, even if you disagree, and remember that disagreement does not mean lack of respect. As far as the minister goes, IMO, any good minister or priest would tell a person that they should always discern and follow God’s will–anything else is worldly and subjective advice, but Jesus in the Scriptures tells us that we need to follow the will of God. We love God first. “Thy will be done”.

Be assured that if you follow God’s will in the matter, He will allow what is best. Trust Him to take care of everything. God bless you.

 

[St_Francis]

Yes, you should respect your wife: you should give appropriate respect to everyone. However, God is the Highest Authority. People need to obey God *first. *God is calling you into the Catholic Church (congratulations and welcome ), and He is Whom you need to obey first.

Why would you even listen to people who so obviously have an agenda that is counter to God’s?

Scott Hahn discusses this in his and his wife’s conversion story *Home Sweet Rome." Their paths were separate and at one point he realizes that although he had promised his wife to wait 5 years to convert, he had come to realize “delayed obedience is disobedience.”

Follow Christ no matter what crosses this brings to you.*

 

[angell1]

Hello. I was told this today. I don’t see anywhere in the Bible that husbands must respect their wives. I do read that wives are to submit and respect husbands. I see husbands are called to love their wives; I see nothing about husbands submitting to their wives and respecting their wives.

Yet, I read from catholic appologetic material that men are to respect their wives and make sacrifices for them. Okay? So Bible doesn’t say anything about respecting their wives but catholic teaching says I should? How do I make sense of this? To what extent do I respect my wife? I want to follow my conscious and join the Catholic Church so do I sacrifice what I want and ignore my conscious and submit to my wife’s will out of respect for her? I was literally told plainly today that I would destroy my family if I convert against my wife’s wishes.

Today I had a female protestant pastor, who says I am the head of the household in my o reading all the advice and responses.

hi Cyril, Jesus said that his coming would bring division in families. I’m pretty sure this is the kind of thing he was talking about.

yes, you need to respect your wife, it doesn’t matter if the bible says this word for word or not, it’s common sense. however, this does not mean you let her get in the way of God’s will. and we know that his will is unity for his church. so if you are convinced that Catholicism is the truth, then you can no longer ignore you obligation.

if your wife asked you to help with the household chores and you didn’t, preferring to make messes and expect her to clean upp after you, this would be disrespect. if you spend money irresponsibly and she asked you to stop and you ignored it, this would be disrespect. if she makes reasonable suggestions of any kind and you blow her off because “you’re 'the head of the household and she must sumbit to you”, that would be disrespect. if you take out anger on her, put her down, call her names, that is disrespect.

now I’m not saying I think you do any of these things, they are just examples

ultimately we have to follow God first, have you had a proper discussion with your wife?why is she so opposed to you being catholic? and I agree with the others, try to get the other “ministers” out of it. and if your wife really insists on leaving the marriage, I am very sorry for that but that may be a cross you have to bear. but honestly, she would be the one destroying the marriage, not you

 

[Lou2U]

Yes, that’s the problem here and in your many threads about this. You seem to think you can win them over with logic, reason, as long as you “say the right things.” But they have no interest in that. Continuing to agree to these meetings and interviews is not getting you anywhere, but it does provide some convenient stalling options. These people are manipulating you.

It would show greater respect for your wife if you did not let her treat you so badly. That doesn’t mean you completely disregard her wishes or that you deny her the respect and dignity due to her as God’s loving creation and as your chosen wife, but no, you don’t let people just run all over you.

The most argument you need to make is, “Thank you for your concern. I know what I’m doing. I love my wife. Now please let me get on with my life.” And then stop seeing these people.

Lou

 

[AdamP88]

Yeah, we should respect our wives. But when it comes to the faith there’s nobody that can stop you from following your conscience. If you believe the Catholic faith is the true path to holiness, then you should follow that.

Respect for your wife is grand, but your wife is not respecting you. By emotionally blackmailing you, and getting the local protestant pastor to do the same, she is disrespecting you and putting your family life at risk.

If my wife wanted to join some other faith, I’d certainly be duly disappointed, but rather than threatening to leave, I’d pray and hope that God brought something good out of the situation and perhaps strengthen her faith in the long run.

 

[Dorothy]

I mean, how do I even begin to articulate my words and explain why I am not committing any wrong doing by becoming a catholic even though my wife feels I am not respecting her?
How do I begin to defend against the accusation I’d be destroying my family due to not respecting my wife?

Am i committing wrong doing by converting to the Catholic Church against my wife’s wishes? Am I obligated to respect her in all circumstances and if I don’t, is it wrong doing?

What does the Church teach in light of all this is what I’m asking.

You are not committing wrong by converting to the Catholic Church against your wife’s wishes. Pray for your wife, and pray for yourself to be peaceful about choosing to convert. It seems best if you go and talk to a priest about this.

In Sacred Scripture Jesus said “I have come to bring a sword not peace…” Jesus comes first.

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

Hi guys I just want to clear something up. I’m under the guidance of a priest. Maybe some people didn’t realize that. I’m standing firm no matter what my wife and others say. I called her up yesterday to say I’m not going to share any of my personal views with her unless she asks and it somehow touched on to the topic of my desiring to become catholic, so I made it clear I’m not waiting ten years to convert and am planning to do it with or without her because God has called me to his Church. The conversation was rather circular and went kind of like this:

"I read your e-mail and tried to take the time to respond. In the end, I just thanked you for sharing what you had to say. But I still wanted to call up and say ‘hey, I can tell something was up and I had crossed a barrier, and so I wanted to appologize and say I won’t share my views anymore unless you want to hear them.’

“You know what, you’re really getting into the whole theological aspect here and dogma and I don’t have the time to really get into that right now because we’re busy, and frankly, people have been discussing that stuff for a long time. It just really distracts from our focus on Jesus and we should really not get caught up in all that stuff, and really, what we need to do is come back to the Bible and focus on Jesus. For me baptism is a not a matter of salvation”

“Well, you see, it does matter to me. It is a matter of salvation to me.”

“I know you’re really getting caught up in all that, and it’s great to learn more about that, but it’s very distracting, and so I feel you’re really getting caught up in all that and you need to just find a good bible commentary.”

“You see, for me, The Bible says The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. We can know what the truth is.”

“Look, I know you’re all caught up with converting to the catholic church and all, and your family is coming back soon and you’ll all be together, but joining the catholic church, that’s like ten years away, and even then…”

“No, it isn’t ten years away. I’m planning to do it before then. Not now, but within a year or two. I’m focused on my family right now. God has called me to His Church—The Catholic Church.”

“You are in his church.”

“You know that it isn’t the Church that Jesus established—it’s the Catholic Church. God has called me and is leading me there. For me it’s a matter of conscious.”

“God has not called you there because he wants you to remain where you are, with your family. If you go and convert, you’ll be taking her with you and she’ll be leaving her community and friends and people who speak her language. It’ll be so difficult on her.”

“First of all, I did not say I would take her from her community. No, I did not say that. I placed no burden and obligation on her. In fact, I already sacrificed my intention to have my children baptized as infants even though I feel it’s the right thing to do and it’s a matter of conscious.”

“I can’t help but feel you have some sort of…well, how do I put this, once you convert, you’ll eventually turn around and say that you want him baptized.”

“Are you saying I’m lying? I told you I’m not going to do it. Look, I’m not asking my wife and my son to leave your church and your community. I have placed no burden on her and no obligation whatsoever; In fact, as I said, I’m not going to do what I feel is right and have my children baptized—AND, I’m even going out of my way to accomodate them and her beliefs.”

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

“All I ask is that she respect that I become catholic For me it’s a matter of conscious.”

“NO, you need to respect her. You can’t just do whatever you want anymore.”

“Bible says love your wife and that I don’t have to agree with everything she says. She married me for better or for worse.”

“NO, you married her for better or for worse.”

“You have to respect her.”

“You’re telling me I have to respect her and that she doesn’t have to respect me?”

“No, I didn’t say that. There you go again by saying those kind of things!”

“God has called me to his Church—the Church he established on Peter. So for me, it’s a matter of conscious. And you know it’s the Church that Jesus established. You know that. I don’t believe it’s in error and I don’t believe God called the Reformers out of it. God comes before wife, even if she feels I don’t respect her. Calvin, John Wesley, and even John Shultz agree. God before wife even if she feels I don’t respect her and doesn’t agree. He’s calling me home.”

“You are in his Church----the mystical body of Christ.”

“If two jews were married and one wants to convert to the christian faith, you’d be okay with that.”

“You’re talking about something completely different. Those were jews.”

“Okay, let’s try this again. If an athiest or someone wanted to join your church against the wishes of their spouse, you’d be okay with that. It’s the same with someone wanting to join the Catholic Church. That’s partly why what you say doesn’t sit right…”

“Look, that’s different. You and your wife are already christians together in the church.If you go and convert, you’ll be destroying your marriage.”

“I’m planning to do it with or without her support.”

“You’re part of his body. God has called you to where you are. I don’t get it. Why are you needing to convert away to the catholic church when we are already part of the body of christ and part of his church. It doesn’t make sense. Don’t you feel the Holy Spirit is among us? You want to convert because you feel it is better?”

“Yes, because the catholic faith is the fullness of the christian faith. The Church isn’t in error. God has called me to be part of the church He established on Peter. You have the Holy Spirit, I’m not denying that. I’m not denying that anyone has the Holy Spirit and that God is in this church, but God is calling me to join the Church he established.”

“Then I’m sorry Rob, you’ll just be destroying your marriage. It’s going to hurt your wife and son so much and cause so much trouble in your home.”

“No, I won’t be destroying my marriage. There are couples whose marriages weren’t destroyed.”

“Most marriages don’t last when that happens.”

"Look, if you don’t agree with my decision then fine. But if you go and tell my wife that converting to the Catholic Church will destroy my marriage, you’re interfering in our marriage and becoming a source of division for us in our home.

The conversation went kind of like that and was circular. It’s pretty clear I’m not going to listen to them and that that I’m not going to discuss with her anymore things she doesn’t want to hear. It’s just what she said to me didn’t sit well and I want to learn more about what it means to respect my wife. I’m not saying I don’t. As head of my household and domestic church, it’s tempting to step in as boss and demand the pastor stop interfering and that my wife do as I say because the Bible says she must submit to me as to I do to Christ. Do as I say or else it’s a sin and she is rebelling against my god-given, ordained position as head-of household. I’m talking about playing hardball and getting tough here with a rod of iron kind of tough.

 

[Lou2U]

Honestly, it doesn’t seem pretty clear to me. You keep arguing with someone who isn’t going to change their opinion, no matter what. You would be much better off saying “Thank you for your concern, but I am convinced of my decision and I do not wish to discuss it any further.”
Stick to it, and repeat it when necessary. You don’t need to get angry, confused, upset or anything else and if that is how you feel when talking to the pastor, stop talking about it to her. These discussions are getting you nowhere.

Lou

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

Now, I was not raised that way. I was raised to respect my wife and others in a modern, secular kind of way with some instilled christian values. And when I say “respect me”, it’s more of a request or imploring her to use her free will to submit to what I’d like her to do. It doesn’t mean I’m not willing to change my mind and submit to what she wants—and I have done so before. I understand more about respect from a secular perspective and have some understanding from it from reading my bible and being affected by feminism in today’s society. I have a concern that that concern is that that pastor will manipulate my wife to rebel against what I feel is best for our family by insisting that I submit to her will or else I’d be destroying my marriage. I take that very seriously and yesterday it caused me a lot of stress and anxiety and I struggled to put my feelings and thoughts into words and questions. The other day I picked up a book on how to set up the home as the domestic church. I want to learn more about all of that.

The discussion has led me to ask some questions. Some of it I am seeking out on my own. But some of it I could use some help. Sure, I could read my bible and interpret passages as giving me authority to order my wife around. Do as I say or it’s rebellion. But I wasn’t raised that way and that is one of the reasons why my catholic mother doesn’t go to catholic church…My father is secular and treats my mother wonderfully and has acted as a model for me in life, but now is the time to get to know more about what all of this means according to the Catholic Church.

What does it mean for wives and husbands to submit to one another as to the Lord? What does it mean the husband is the head of household? Does the husband exercise any kind of authority that he can exercise to rein in a wife in order to keep the peace at home? Does the husband have the authority to call the shots at home even if his wife doesn’t agree or respect it or do they have to do as protestants often do, pray about life changing decisions and make decisions together as equal people under God, with the man having the final say. What does it mean for a wife to submit to her husband as to the Lord? What does it mean for a wife to respect her husband? What about cases where the man doesn’t do anything wrong and she doesn’t agree with it? Is the man sinning? What does it mean for the husband to submit to his wife as to the Lord? What does it mean for the man to love his wife? Is there a distinction between love and respect or is it one and the same?
What is the family. What does it mean that the home is the domestic church. How do catholics live their lives at home as the domestic church? Does the wife have any authority over her husband? Does the husband have any authority over his wife, and if so, what is it, and how can he enforce it?

I am also learning about what a Church really is, how the Catholic Church recognizes other churches and how they define them as churches. I’m learning what the difference is between The Church, churches that are churches not communion with Rome, and why my “church” is not a church in the proper sense of the word but is actually an ecclesial community. I’m learning what the mystical body of Christ is, and how separated bretheren not in communion with the bishop of Rome are part of it. Why is it my ecclesial community still has the Holy Spirit among them bringing people to Christ yet I’m called away from this community where the Holy Spirit is working on it to bring people to Christ to Christ’s Church, which I am not visibly part of. I’m learning that the Church is visible, not invisible, as protestants think, and that there is only One True Church, established by Jesus, and that I belong there. And I want to be. And I in good conscious feel a need to unlearn stuff I knew and relearn what I thought I knew.

So, I think from now on, I’ll be referring to my “church” as not a Church in the proper sense but as a building, parish or an ecclesial community. I feel in the coming days this distinction will become more pivitol in helping others to understand the gravity of why I’m being led to join Christ’s Church. The truth is, I never was in it. I was part of His mystical body, though imperfectly, because of the virtue of baptism and the receiving of the Holy Spirit. And I understand that God is calling people to be baptized and become a part of that mystical body. Sure. But as I see it now, God is not calling people to join an offshoot for the sake of it being an offshoot, but to join His Church—The Catholic Church and for protestants to be called back to The Church and the fullness of the christian faith.

So, sorry guys for the long post. I just really wanted to share this to clear up some confusion created on my part. I’m ready to rein in my wife and boss her around by demanding she respect me and held my tongue when on the phone with the pastor, but I know my understanding if flawed and fallible, so I was really hoping to get help with that. I’m sorry I gave you guys the impression I’m letting myself get manipulated and not standing firm. I just don’t want to use those bible verses to act as a tyrant in my marriage and I really don’t think that’s what they mean. And I don’t accept Samantha’s idea about respect either. So, rather than go by my own understanding and act as a tyrant and make my wife feel disrespected and loved, I hope to come to you guys for help and get help, and if she still feels disrespected when I become catholic, at least I can say in good conscious I tried to do what I could do love and respect her. God bless.

 

[DarkLight]

Your fundamental problem here isn’t about respecting your wife, in these discussions. It’s that they don’t see the Catholic church as anything different or special. To their mentality, you’re already a Christian, you’re already in the church, so there’s no reason except stubbornness to insist on being Catholic. To them it’s just like if there were two Baptist churches, and you and your wife had been going to one but you suddenly insisted that you would only go to the other.

They don’t understand that you see a fuller communion with God in the Catholic church than you can achieve in the protestant church you are in. To them, you’re already a Christian and there’s not much more to it. They don’t understand, and don’t seem like they really want to.

It’s not an issue of respect so much as obeying God over man. The answer would be the same if your wife wanted to convert and you didn’t want her to. Just tell them “This is where God is calling me and it’s not up for discussion.”

 

[AClaire11]

No one is saying you get to boss around your wife and demand she submit. That would be abusive and make things even worse. Drop the rope with the pastors and just focus on loving your wife and learning more about Catholicism.

 

[AClaire11]

Your fundamental problem here isn’t about respecting your wife, in these discussions. It’s that they don’t see the Catholic church as anything different or special. To their mentality, you’re already a Christian, you’re already in the church, so there’s no reason except stubbornness to insist on being Catholic. To them it’s just like if there were two Baptist churches, and you and your wife had been going to one but you suddenly insisted that you would only go to the other.

They don’t understand that you see a fuller communion with God in the Catholic church than you can achieve in the protestant church you are in. To them, you’re already a Christian and there’s not much more to it. They don’t understand, and don’t seem like they really want to.

It’s not an issue of respect so much as obeying God over man. The answer would be the same if your wife wanted to convert and you didn’t want her to. Just tell them “This is where God is calling me and it’s not up for discussion.”

This.

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

Honestly, it doesn’t seem pretty clear to me. You keep arguing with someone who isn’t going to change their opinion, no matter what. You would be much better off saying “Thank you for your concern, but I am convinced of my decision and I do not wish to discuss it any further.”
Stick to it, and repeat it when necessary. You don’t need to get angry, confused, upset or anything else and if that is how you feel when talking to the pastor, stop talking about it to her. These discussions are getting you nowhere.

Lou

You guys are right. Unlike Samantha, John told me he wasn’t anti-catholic and has shown a willingness to hear what I have to say and taken an interest in what I have learned. I shared with him that John Wesley supported Mary’s perpetual virginity and helped clear up some misconceptions he had about the Catholic Church. The discussion was very fruitful and it led him to ask: “Then why did Martin Luther leave the Catholic Church? Surely he must have had a good reason.”

They handed me a sheet of paper that said Mary bore sons after Jesus but I was able to share my findings that the Reformers they look up to were in line with Catholic Teaching and help clear up some misconceptions. And he invited me to share more with him and continue the discussion.

My priest encouraged me to share what I learned with them and ask questions and plant healthy seeds of the catholic faith. John showed willingness to hear what I have to say; Samantha not so much. I was able to appeal to John for his support to encourage my wife to accept my decision to become catholic; Samantha, not so much. So, I wouldn’t say engaging them has been fruitless, but as it stands, I’m retreating from these discussions for now.

You’re right. I plan to focus on loving my wife and son and say this if I am pressed to discuss my conversion to the catholic church any further: “This is where God is calling me and it’s not up for discussion.”

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

Yeah, we should respect our wives. But when it comes to the faith there’s nobody that can stop you from following your conscience. If you believe the Catholic faith is the true path to holiness, then you should follow that.

Respect for your wife is grand, but your wife is not respecting you. By emotionally blackmailing you, and getting the local protestant pastor to do the same, she is disrespecting you and putting your family life at risk.

If my wife wanted to join some other faith, I’d certainly be duly disappointed, but rather than threatening to leave, I’d pray and hope that God brought something good out of the situation and perhaps strengthen her faith in the long run.

You are not committing wrong by converting to the Catholic Church against your wife’s wishes. Pray for your wife, and pray for yourself to be peaceful about choosing to convert. It seems best if you go and talk to a priest about this.

In Sacred Scripture Jesus said “I have come to bring a sword not peace…” Jesus comes first.

You guys are right. Thanks for this.

 

[CthgeDelendaEst]

OP,

Your biggest problem is you are attending a church pastored by a woman. Female lead churches lead to feelz being more important than biblical truth, which leads to rot and perdition. Men led churches, including Catholic ones, are not immune from this either, but with a female at the helm it’s 100% going to be this way. Women have many roles to play. Teaching from the pulpit is not one of them. Tell your pastor to take up the issue with St Paul. If you do nothing else, get your son away from there.

 

[Cyril_Of_Canada]

OP,

Your biggest problem is you are attending a church pastored by a woman. Female lead churches lead to feelz being more important than biblical truth, which leads to rot and perdition. Men led churches, including Catholic ones, are not immune from this either, but with a female at the helm it’s 100% going to be this way. Women have many roles to play. Teaching from the pulpit is not one of them. Tell your pastor to take up the issue with St Paul. If you do nothing else, get your son away from there.

Actually, it’s great you brought this up. The ecclesial community I’m part of has a male head pastor; His wife is also a pastor. I’ll call him Sam and Lucy. Sam was very respectful that I want to become a catholic and said that I’m always welcome in their ecclesial community.
He showed a willingness to hear my views and has stated he is interested in other interpretations on scripture and that there are passages that he finds difficult to understand. I sense that he’s happy where he is for reasons that ministers have in common when they face the question whether to convert or not. So, he prefers to just remain where he is and not trouble his conscious further by doing any investigation into things such as the Canon Of Scripture. He isn’t anti-catholic at all. His wife, well, I’m not sure what she thinks tbh but I’ve heard nothing bad necessarily from her and she has been warm and welcoming of me too. I love them and like them a lot. I have a lot of good things to say about them. But they come from the same background as my wife, and in my wife’s culture, it’s counter cultural to not go along with the ground. There is a lack of emphasis on individuality in japanese culture and people put more emphasis on self sacrifice for the greater community. I think it may have to do with the Bushido way of thinking ingrained in their thinking. I know that at work places in Japan if you stick out individually at, say the work place, you can get bullied into conforming with the group. I know for a fact that groups of people in that country conform with what their friends do, so they may dress the same, think the same, ect and sacrifice personal for the greater group. My wife was supportive of me at first becoming catholic and journeying along with me. But she changed once there was an indication from Sam and Lucy that I was diverging from the group and not in line with their common thought. I wronged my wife before too and she has a fear that if I convert, I’ll continue to do bad things and just confess it to my priest while keeping it from her…my wife really is honestly hurt but I feel some things aren’t as big a deal as she makes them out to me. My father and others feel it’s not as bad as she makes it out to be and are concerned that she is bullying me and being hard on me. One of her gripes is that I should not change my mind when I make a future plan and backtrack on something I intended to do. Part of that is really my fault and part of that is also because of the bushido way of thinking where you don’t change or backtrack on something you say you’ll do. As a canadian, I can’t know the future. It’s complicated and I’m sorry I can’t share with you the full picture.

John and Samantha are two other pastors under the leadership of the male lead pastor. Then there are intern pastors who are more for the youth who attend the ecclesial community.

A few months ago the intern pastor that I’m friends with stood up in front of the whole congregation to resign over differences. He didn’t get into it with many people and he wept in front of everyone. It was at that time I joined this forum and I was inspired by his courage. He later told me his issue was over female pastors and was going to look for another church.
I tried to share my views with him privately because at the time I don’t recall having told my wife yet, and I feared I’d have to do the same thing.

 

[AClaire11]

You keep hinting at what you’ve done in the past. I think that, in addition to the cultural issues, is a key factor in this. What happened?

 

[chevalier]

I mean, how do I even begin to articulate my words and explain why I am not committing any wrong doing by becoming a catholic even though my wife feels I am not respecting her?
How do I begin to defend against the accusation I’d be destroying my family due to not respecting my wife?

Am i committing wrong doing by converting to the Catholic Church against my wife’s wishes? Am I obligated to respect her in all circumstances and if I don’t, is it wrong doing?

What does the Church teach in light of all this is what I’m asking.

Unfortunately, I can’t give you anything a Pope or a Council said on similar facts, but respecting someone is not the same as having to comply with that person’s wishes in everything. Nor do you automatically disrespect someone by doing something that person says disrespects him or her. And converting certainly does not objectively disrespect her, especially when it’s a concious, well-meditated decision and not something done on a whim or experiment (experimenting could be disrespectful, e.g. choosing some sort of spirituality because it made you feel fuzzy rather than following what you believe to be God’s true revelation).

Your conversion is certainly something that’s going to affect her life, not just yours, and you do need to go about it in a way that’s respectful toward her, but she doesn’t get to block your conversion. Besides, she can’t tell you what to believe or not believe — even if you wanted to comply, you couldn’t possibly force it. And your conversion follows your belief.

Also, as much as I certainly hope you don’t have to make that choice, ultimately God > wife. Your wife isn’t your maker or saviour, nor a binding source of faith.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Honestly, it doesn’t seem pretty clear to me. You keep arguing with someone who isn’t going to change their opinion, no matter what. You would be much better off saying “Thank you for your concern, but I am convinced of my decision and I do not wish to discuss it any further.”
Stick to it, and repeat it when necessary. You don’t need to get angry, confused, upset or anything else and if that is how you feel when talking to the pastor, stop talking about it to her. These discussions are getting you nowhere.
ou

This. It seems like you have said enough to them, more than enough. They are manipulating you and using emotional blackmail. Sometimes the best thing is to stop responding and explaining.