You only think your gay

[theCrow]

I’m seeing a lot of well meaning Christians on here spreading a dangerous theology on homosexuality. That being gay is just “who you are” and acting on it is a sin.

“Who you are” is not determined by preferences. If you are intentionally giving life to homosexual thoughts because it gives you warm and fuzzy feelings about romance and sex, you are committing sin, by choice.

Hearing people keep saying “who you are” is like hearing Michael Jackson say “heal the world” in that corny song from the nineties. It’s a meaningless phrase that just sounds nice.

Why don’t people define objectively what “who you are” means? Is it who I am today? Yesterday or tomorrow? Is “who you are” a collection of organs and blood? Is it a spirit, that possesses a body? Or a body that posseses physical objects and makes physical actions?

End with the euphemisms, if you have a vagina, it is physically “what it is”. Use it for its purpose, peeing and the coincidently pleasurable process of procreation. Same goes for male body parts. If you have deformed genetalia that can still procreate, then procreate. Nobody is born anything. You know nothing about sex until you learn about it. Heck most people first sexual experience is with themselves. Does that make you “gay”

First: Horrible Grammar in subject line. It’s “you’re” not “your.”
Second: As stated, women don’t pee through their vagina.

I stopped reading after that.

By this logic, you only think you’re straight?

 

[SoulSolace]

First: Horrible Grammar in subject line. It’s “you’re” not “your.”
Second: As stated, women don’t pee through their vagina.

I stopped reading after that.

By this logic, you only think you’re straight?

And love is your religion?

Seriously, he gets the general idea of what the parts are used for…

Poor grammar won’t keep one out of Heaven, unless there’s a commandment I am not familiar with.

I think bullying the OP has gone far enough on this thread.

He expressed his ideas in a general form and in an understandable manner.

To continuously make fun of someone is what the LGBT community doesn’t want to happen to them, but feel free to do so to anyone who opposes them, right?

 

[estesbob]

People do not decide to be attracted to the same sex any more than they decide to be attracted to the opposite sex.
We all have desires and temptations- it is our choice to dwell on them and act on them, but simply having them is not a sin- and ignoring the problem doesn’t make it go away.

From the catechism:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity.

That is not what 2358 says:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

 

[Coatimundi]

From the catechism:
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Snowflakeinlove, did you quote from an online copy of the Catechism, or are you quoting from an excerpt which appeared on another website? I ask because there seems to be some confusion about the current wording.

The phrase you have bolded apparently has been removed. Here is one possible explanation, which was posted by another CAF member back in 2005:

This quote is from an un-approved version of the Catechism, published in 1993 (when the USCCB was hav ing a tough time getting an approved English language version they went ahead and printed (a best seller, you may note) an unapproved version that remained quoted CONSTANTLY by homosexual advocates. The imprimatured version had approx 140 changes to it prior to becoming the infallible teaching of the church,which occured in 1997 and was published as 'Second Edition".

The above is NOT the teaching of the church - it has been dramatically changed - the “They do not choose” has been removed entirely and replaced with “This inclination, which is intrinsically disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.”

The version of the Catechism which that person cited, nine years ago, corresponds with the version which Estesbob just quoted.

 

[migueltojose]

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many have we lost.

I think we are loosing more as deviancy has escalated with acceptance, more and more potential individuals who may have chosen marriage as a vocation, may not. More lost babies.

Temperance, justice, tolerance and acceptance are not interchangeable.

I do not accept behavior that inhibits procreation. I tolerate it because it exists. Justice is about being “right” and working to make things that are not right, right. It is not right to prohibit life for one’s own personal “feelings”. That is selfish, not only to one’s family and friends, and society as a whole, but to any potential future family members whom are being defied and denied.

 

[PutresOmega]

Why don’t people define objectively what “who you are” means? Is it who I am today? Yesterday or tomorrow? Is “who you are” a collection of organs and blood? Is it a spirit, that possesses a body? Or a body that posseses physical objects and makes physical actions?

Because it is far to complicated to have a simple answer. I am a writer. I am a security guard. I am a student in college. I am also gay. I am no one single thing and neither are you. You are an Ex Catholic who has returned to your old Faith. You are a Washington resident. You are a poster at this forum. You are many things.

In other words, yes to all of the above questions beyond the first.

You know nothing about sex until you learn about it. Heck most people first sexual experience is with themselves. Does that make you “gay”

There is no one kind of homosexuality. It varies from male to female, from person to person. I realized I was gay when I was in my late twenties and fell in love with another man. Before this, I never really felt love for anyone. I befriended women and could be sexually aroused by them and I assumed that is what love was: a friend you have sex with sometimes. I never really felt the urge to join myself to them, to better them, to let them better me, to protect them in the same way I did the gentleman I fell in love with later, or any of that. My story is far different from what most men experience, however. This is the problem with your one size fits all approach to us.

You are boiling romance and romantic love down to warm and fuzzy feelings but these things are pillars upon which our humanity is built. Our best qualities and worse sins have been born of this yearning to become one with someone special. Sex is secondary to that wanting to become one with that person in that odd sort of spiritual relationship that rests somewhere between kinship, friendship, and the charity of giving up yourself to another in full trust. Looking back, before I knew what sex was I loved being touched by other boys in my youth in gentle and friendly ways. I loved having my back scratched and being hugged close to them. Even unmarred by the profanity of sexuality I found myself loving other males in ways that I now realize were unique to few other people.

From the Illiad to the Hollywood movie Titanic, our literary tradition as a species shows that our romantic drives are a serious part of who we are and what forms us. This drive for a soul mate, this searching for great love that launched an entire genre of books and still holds sway today is every bit as integral to me as it is to you. The Church may teach that pursuing that soul mate or that connection to another is disordered but the yearning is no less there.

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many Adolf Hitler’s and Pol Pot’s have we been spared?

Let me be frank in breaking down the jist of what you are saying. Your great lament here is that unwilling women are no longer forced to submit to rape and then forced to carry their rapists child to term against their will. I have always considered the fact that we have moved past this portion of our history as a species as a good thing, personally.

How many have we lost.

I think we are loosing more as deviancy has escalated with acceptance, more and more potential individuals who may have chosen marriage as a vocation, may not. More lost babies.

Well, we are deviants by your own admission, Miguel. Don’t you think it would be better if we didn’t procreate and birth more people with a tendency towards our deviancy? If you are going to entertain a eugenics argument then do remember that the knife cuts both ways. There is a reason the Church and most moral people find eugenics repugnant.

Temperance, justice, tolerance and acceptance are not interchangeable.

I do not accept behavior that inhibits procreation. I tolerate it because it exists. Justice is about being “right” and working to make things that are not right, right. It is not right to prohibit life for one’s own personal “feelings”. That is selfish, not only to one’s family and friends, and society as a whole, but to any potential future family members whom are being defied and denied.

Have you told your parish priest or written to your bishop to explain to them that they are committing a crime against future generations by not getting married and having kids? Just think of all those wonderful doctors and inventors a guy like Pope Francis could have had if only he hadn’t selfishly chosen to keep his seed out of a woman. That jerk.

 

[Rau]

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many have we lost.

I think we are loosing more as deviancy has escalated with acceptance, more and more potential individuals who may have chosen marriage as a vocation, may not. More lost babies.

Temperance, justice, tolerance and acceptance are not interchangeable.

I do not accept behavior that inhibits procreation. I tolerate it because it exists. Justice is about being “right” and working to make things that are not right, right. It is not right to prohibit life for one’s own personal “feelings”. That is selfish, not only to one’s family and friends, and society as a whole, but to any potential future family members whom are being defied and denied.

How does a homosexual person who feels no attraction to the opposite sex identify a potential spouse, conduct an honest courtship, exchange vows honestly and have a successful (and valid) marriage? How does that work?

Would the process be carried out as a deception by the homosexual of the other party? Or do you foresee that there would be partners who would be happy to proceed to marriage with a homosexual in order to have babies and ensure no potential life is denied?

I note the Church advocates neither of the above courses for a homosexual person, but rather a chaste single life.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many have we lost.

Uhhhhh, doesn’t it follow that we should have kids get married as young as possible, so that genuises aren’t “lost”?

 

[Kamaduck]

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many have we lost.

I think we are loosing more as deviancy has escalated with acceptance, more and more potential individuals who may have chosen marriage as a vocation, may not. More lost babies.

Temperance, justice, tolerance and acceptance are not interchangeable.

I do not accept behavior that inhibits procreation. I tolerate it because it exists. Justice is about being “right” and working to make things that are not right, right. It is not right to prohibit life for one’s own personal “feelings”. That is selfish, not only to one’s family and friends, and society as a whole, but to any potential future family members whom are being defied and denied.

Not everyone is called to marriage.

 

[Mulligan2]

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many have we lost.

I think we are loosing more as deviancy has escalated with acceptance, more and more potential individuals who may have chosen marriage as a vocation, may not. More lost babies.

Temperance, justice, tolerance and acceptance are not interchangeable.

I do not accept behavior that inhibits procreation. I tolerate it because it exists. Justice is about being “right” and working to make things that are not right, right. It is not right to prohibit life for one’s own personal “feelings”. That is selfish, not only to one’s family and friends, and society as a whole, but to any potential future family members whom are being defied and denied.

I highlighted the sentence from above that I find most confusing. You are saying that you “tolerate” what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Well, thanks for your tolerance. This is not your concern, nor is it mine. The intimate behaviors of consenting adults is profoundly disinteresting to me.

 

[pnewton]

I highlighted the sentence from above that I find most confusing. You are saying that you “tolerate” what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home. Well, thanks for your tolerance. This is not your concern, nor is it mine. The intimate behaviors of consenting adults is profoundly disinteresting to me.

Yet here you are discussing it. Disinteresting you say?

If homosexuality was in fact private, there would be not gay agenda, no parades, special interest groups or gay rights legislation.

 

[PutresOmega]

Yet here you are discussing it. Disinteresting you say?

If homosexuality was in fact private, there would be not gay agenda, no parades, special interest groups or gay rights legislation.

I would agree with this pnewton on this. While I can respect that you wish to keep people out of the bedroom, homosexuality is about relationships which are quite public as well. I have a disdain for talk of sex in public, generally, so I agree with your sentiment but feel it is misguided as well. Silence is deadly for LGBT people thus there is a need to be public, form political groups, and remain visible lest the wicked be allowed to control the dialogue and define us. We see what is happening in Russia and Uganda now thanks to that. Evil festers in the darkness like fungus. It will do that here too if people are allowed to spread dangerous rhetoric unanswered and unrebutted.

 

[SoulSolace]

I would agree with this pnewton on this. While I can respect that you wish to keep people out of the bedroom, homosexuality is about relationships which are quite public as well. I have a disdain for talk of sex in public, generally, so I agree with your sentiment but feel it is misguided as well. Silence is deadly for LGBT people thus there is a need to be public, form political groups, and remain visible lest the wicked be allowed to control the dialogue and define us. We see what is happening in Russia and Uganda now thanks to that. Evil festers in the darkness like fungus. It will do that here too if people are allowed to spread dangerous rhetoric unanswered and unrebutted.

Another user posted this earlier, it is very interesting.

catholicworldreport.com/Item/3172/samesex_marriage_and_parenting_four_big_myths_debunked.aspx

God bless.

 

[PutresOmega]

Another user posted this earlier, it is very interesting.

catholicworldreport.com/Item/3172/samesex_marriage_and_parenting_four_big_myths_debunked.aspx

God bless.

I won’t address the first two Myths as this isn’t a place for political commentary and I have grown weary of endless debate on it. Needless to say, I disagree and am content to let it be handled in the governing bodies of this and every nation.

For the third Myth, I will cop to that much. Not personally, of course, but the LGBT community can be an unruly and passionate bunch with some practicing the same sort of negative tactics used against them. Many of my own friends in that community are vicious and angry towards the other side. Try to understand that many have faced horrific abuse at the hands of parents and, in a few cases, were kicked out and disowned spending a portion of their lives in homeless shelters or trading sex for housing from older people. I know that doesn’t make it right. ** As such I would apologize for our rude behavior, transgressions, excesses, and trespasses against the other side.**

That said, that does not mean that our political identity and visibility as a group are not necessary. I am what you would consider “straight acting” though I hate that term, passionately. I live in the middle of Oklahoma and have been privy to the thoughts of those who do hate people like me, listening in and biting my tongue if only to let their vile words wash away my uncertainty about whether or not I am on the right side of this and temper my will to keep fighting for what is right. I know what is waiting in the darkness if we don’t keep the torches lit and man the walls. That evil won’t prevail against us without a fight. Not if I can help it.

The final Myth is nonsense, to put it bluntly. There is no such thing as “homosexual parents” as if such a grouping were somehow all uniform and as easy to judge. Many of those studies were studying broken families where a gay parent left the opposite sex parent for another same sex partner. Divorce is bad for kids but there is no causal link between the orientation of the parents and the way the kids turned out. I suspect one would find similar difficulties with divorced heterosexual parents.

Don’t take this as me being angry or biting your head off but merely as correction. I recognize that you likely don’t understand our experience except through media and second hand knowledge. God Bless you as well.

 

[pnewton]

Silence is deadly for LGBT people thus there is a need to be public, form political groups, and remain visible lest the wicked be allowed to control the dialogue and define us. We see what is happening in Russia and Uganda now thanks to that. Evil festers in the darkness like fungus. It will do that here too if people are allowed to spread dangerous rhetoric unanswered and unrebutted.

There is never a need to publicly defend something that is sin. Speaking of allowing dangerous rhetoric to spread un-rebutted, there no more comparison between Russia and Uganda than that they both have laws. You are using rhetoric yourself, in other words. Making gay rights parades illegal is nothing at all compared to imprisoning and executing people who are gay. Also, the side of evil, is to say the least, open to debate. Not speaking, or restricting free speech, may be wrong, or even sinful. However, Jesus said whoever causes a little one to stumble is in bigger trouble. Perhaps Putin did not want a millstone with his name on it.

 

[Mulligan2]

I would agree with this pnewton on this. While I can respect that you wish to keep people out of the bedroom, homosexuality is about relationships which are quite public as well. I have a disdain for talk of sex in public, generally, so I agree with your sentiment but feel it is misguided as well. Silence is deadly for LGBT people thus there is a need to be public, form political groups, and remain visible lest the wicked be allowed to control the dialogue and define us. We see what is happening in Russia and Uganda now thanks to that. Evil festers in the darkness like fungus. It will do that here too if people are allowed to spread dangerous rhetoric unanswered and unrebutted.

I appreciate your perspective on this.

 

[migueltojose]

I appreciate your perspective on this.

I don’t. Having a public forum and debate is one thing… flaunting perversity in parades is another. Active recruitment too. There are militant activists who identify themselves or are identified as gay. Just like there are militant activist feminists, tea baggers, vegans, pro lifers, etc. Humility and civility are in order for all.

This gay stuff also takes the form of bullying by threatening those in public (ie Chik Fil A, various CEO’s and any celebrity, wealthy or famous) with financial ruin if they don’t tow the line. It’s fascism. It’s wrong.

 

[AnnieHall]

Here’s my issue… for either those who succumb to homosexual behavior or even those who don’t but are repulsed by the opposite sex. It’s a form of birth control. If you were to use your genetalia the way in which it was designed you would most likely procreate.

How many genius or brilliant minds, inventors, politicians, etc… really important people in our gene pool throughout history (just like you and I) had a link somewhere along the line of a homosexual who willfully acquiesced to social norms, married and pro-created. Millions and millions I’m sure.

How many have we lost.

I think we are loosing more as deviancy has escalated with acceptance, more and more potential individuals who may have chosen marriage as a vocation, may not. More lost babies.

Temperance, justice, tolerance and acceptance are not interchangeable.

I do not accept behavior that inhibits procreation. I tolerate it because it exists. Justice is about being “right” and working to make things that are not right, right. It is not right to prohibit life for one’s own personal “feelings”. That is selfish, not only to one’s family and friends, and society as a whole, but to any potential future family members whom are being defied and denied.

This is an interesting perspective that I can’t seem to wrap my head around. I’d like to think that there’s more purpose to life than just creating more - hopefully we are enriching the world around us and the lives of others through love and kindness, as well as using our gifts and energy to contribute to the good of society. I don’t see abstinence as a form of birth control, and personally, I’d rather be single than in an unhealthy relationship, or in a relationship with someone who doesn’t want to be in one with me - whether for lack of attraction or other reasons. I certainly hope that if I ever do settle down with someone, it is because both of us love and care for each other and have similar hopes and goals, and not because we feel obligated to use our bits and pieces to make life, in order to live a full life.

 

[SMGS127]

Active recruitment too.

I’m sorry, because I usually don’t, but I have to respond rather harshly to this. How, exactly, do you suggest gay people recruit straight people? Magic? We don’t exactly have a magic wand that gives people SSAs (although that would be both cool and frightening at the same time). I can’t say I’ve met many straight women that I was able to seduce before I converted to Catholicism – in fact, heterosexuality tended to be the biggest cause of heartbreak for me when pursuing a woman. Do we perform conversion therapy forcibly on minors to try to force them to accept a sexual orientation they don’t have? Oh wait, sorry, no…that’s fundamentalist Christians.

There is no recruitment in the LGBT community, period. There is just an encouragement to accept oneself as you are and to love oneself, all-encompassing, including sexual orientation. Sadly, that message is deemed “recruitment” by fundamentalists.

 

[migueltojose]

I’m sorry, because I usually don’t, but I have to respond rather harshly to this. How, exactly, do you suggest gay people recruit straight people? Magic? We don’t exactly have a magic wand that gives people SSAs (although that would be both cool and frightening at the same time). I can’t say I’ve met many straight women that I was able to seduce before I converted to Catholicism – in fact, heterosexuality tended to be the biggest cause of heartbreak for me when pursuing a woman. Do we perform conversion therapy forcibly on minors to try to force them to accept a sexual orientation they don’t have? Oh wait, sorry, no…that’s fundamentalist Christians.

There is no recruitment in the LGBT community, period. There is just an encouragement to accept oneself as you are and to love oneself, all-encompassing, including sexual orientation. Sadly, that message is deemed “recruitment” by fundamentalists.

Okay encouragement. I think encouragement with the messed up narcissistic society we have right now is essentially active recruitment. There are a lot of kids searching, curious and vulnerable. Who are also selfish, under-catechized, lack good judgment and see non-conformity as an ideal. I think encouraging them is wrong. A certain amount of conformity is good and necessary. There are upper and lower limits of acceptable (abnormal, normal, subnormal) behavior. Otherwise, everything goes which we seem to be embracing. You see it throughout the secular culture and especially media.

You can hardly watch TV or watch a movie or read a paper without the gay stuff being shoved in your face. Hence my signature below…

And I am not a fundamentalist Christian. I am a cradle Catholic. I have friends with SSA too.