H
- Status
J
jmcrae
Guest
a) He was crazy. (Read the Sermon on the Mount; could a crazy person have written it?)
b) He was a megalomaniac. (Would not have died on the Cross for any reason; certainly not for our sins.)
c) He was really God.
H
hosemonkey
Guest
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
It is **not **we Catholics, not the Church, but Christ, Who is “right”. His rightness & Righteousness - not, & never, ours - is what sustains the Church. We don’t have it right - left to ourselves, we are hopelessly wrong. He changes all that, by making us members of Him: & by being in Him, we have access to everything else in Him: including some of what you have mentioned.
Christian faith is based on Him; because it is purely His gift - never ever ever ever is it based on anything as feeble as Christians. And by this faith which God grants to us, we are united with His Church, in many different ways. To fill in the details of what this means, read the NT - the earliest Fathers show in their writings many details of how this faith developed.None of the questions you ask can be answered in one sentence - if you want answers, why not ask them one at a time ?
H
hosemonkey
Guest
Where has reen12 gone to? Or perhaps, just a breath of wind? Or an itinerant troll? Seems to have departed nontheless, but with “elan”, of course.
M
mark_a
Guest
Well don’t you think you’re right??
R
reen12
Guest
H
hosemonkey
Guest
R
reen12
Guest
What’s so interesting, about Christianity,
is that 2+ billion people actually believe that
human beings are born in ontological sin.
Does each human being sin, in his/her lifetime?
Of course they do. God does not expect His human
creatures to be perfect. That’s why the God of Israel
granted forgiveness, and still grants same.
Come now, let us set things right, says the Lord:
Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow…Is.1:18
The God of Israel is most tender with human beings.
He had already granted forgiveness, mercy and eternal life.
I consider Christianity ‘hoping’ that God will have ‘mercy’ on an infant.
This is where the error of Christianity is glaring.
Compare this ‘theology,’ vis a vis infants, with the words of God, Who is I AM.
Even if your mother forget you, I will never forget you.
See? I have written your name on the palms of My hands. [Isaiah]
reen12
is that 2+ billion people actually believe that
human beings are born in ontological sin.
Does each human being sin, in his/her lifetime?
Of course they do. God does not expect His human
creatures to be perfect. That’s why the God of Israel
granted forgiveness, and still grants same.
Come now, let us set things right, says the Lord:
Though your sins be like scarlet, they may become white as snow…Is.1:18
The God of Israel is most tender with human beings.
He had already granted forgiveness, mercy and eternal life.
I consider Christianity ‘hoping’ that God will have ‘mercy’ on an infant.
This is where the error of Christianity is glaring.
Compare this ‘theology,’ vis a vis infants, with the words of God, Who is I AM.
Even if your mother forget you, I will never forget you.
See? I have written your name on the palms of My hands. [Isaiah]
reen12
A
Americanrevert
Guest
**
Was Jesus a man? Or was he a God? which one?
So, while he was earth he wasn’t a god? Just a man?? Then why do you claim he is part God of the trinity? This doesn’t make sense at all. Why do you really think God would want to kill his supposed son for something He created? You really think that a part of God can die? I don’t. Not in the least, then that would mean God is limited to a degree and that is humiliating God. (my words )
Jesus never claimed to be part of the trinity. These are workings of the churches. Where is Jesus’ words where he said, “I am God, worship me.” He always referred to one better than he. He also criticized men who follow him as well (in the books in the bible.)
example: These people draw near to me with their mouth, and
honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:8-9). (Wonder how many this would apply to even NOW!)
*“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven…” *(Matthew 7:21-23).
“*Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me,” * (We believe all messengers were given the gift of miracles but done with the permission of their Creator.)
…why callest thou me good, there is only One good…(Imagine a part god not claiming to be good.)
In all seriousness, these questions are submitted in humbleness and they are not considered blasphemy simply on account as they are humble questions posed with sincerity. You find many Christians when questions like these arise, they start all huffin n puffin all over the place and wham, straight to your face with degradations, humiliating remarks, criticisms, and hurtful remarks not worthy of being replied to. These are simple questions and have every right to be asked.
thank you
americanrevert **
.
Was Jesus a man? Or was he a God? which one?
So, while he was earth he wasn’t a god? Just a man?? Then why do you claim he is part God of the trinity? This doesn’t make sense at all. Why do you really think God would want to kill his supposed son for something He created? You really think that a part of God can die? I don’t. Not in the least, then that would mean God is limited to a degree and that is humiliating God. (my words
)Jesus never claimed to be part of the trinity. These are workings of the churches. Where is Jesus’ words where he said, “I am God, worship me.” He always referred to one better than he. He also criticized men who follow him as well (in the books in the bible.)
example: These people draw near to me with their mouth, and
honor me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” (Matthew 15:8-9). (Wonder how many this would apply to even NOW!)
*“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven…” *(Matthew 7:21-23).
“*Jesus answered, I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father’s name speak for me,” * (We believe all messengers were given the gift of miracles but done with the permission of their Creator.)
…why callest thou me good, there is only One good…(Imagine a part god not claiming to be good.)
In all seriousness, these questions are submitted in humbleness and they are not considered blasphemy simply on account as they are humble questions posed with sincerity. You find many Christians when questions like these arise, they start all huffin n puffin all over the place and wham, straight to your face with degradations, humiliating remarks, criticisms, and hurtful remarks not worthy of being replied to. These are simple questions and have every right to be asked.
thank you
americanrevert **
R
reen12
Guest
One often hears some variation of the following theme:
The writings of our authorities go back centuries.
…as if error improved, like wine, with the passage of time.
How can you think that you will be saved,
if you don’t accept [fill in the blank.]
Jesus said that…
The Church has always taught…
The first ecclesial entity speaks for Godhead.
Jesus was a nice man who thought he was God.
reen12
The writings of our authorities go back centuries.
…as if error improved, like wine, with the passage of time.
How can you think that you will be saved,
if you don’t accept [fill in the blank.]
Jesus said that…
The Church has always taught…
The first ecclesial entity speaks for Godhead.
Jesus was a nice man who thought he was God.
reen12
A
Americanrevert
Guest
**
americanrevert**
In which text are you referrin to? Where did he think he was god???
americanrevert**
H
hosemonkey
Guest
J
jmcrae
Guest
The front page of nearly every newspaper on earth seems to confirm this theory.
if you are still in doubt after reading a few newspapers, go and visit any nursery or preschool. You will notice that, without ever being taught, every child in there knows how to lie, how to rebel against authority, how to cry at will in order to get his mates into trouble, how to bully, and how to steal. Nobody there ever had to teach the children these things - they knew how when they were born. The struggle is to teach them to share, to be kind to each other, and to listen to the teachers and obey their commands.
If God doesn’t expect us to be perfect, could it be because we were not born perfect? (Which means to say, that we were born with sin? Since sin is nothing more nor less than imperfection.)
But, if God created us perfect, then would He not have the right to expect us to be perfect? Yet, He seems not to claim this right.
R
Robert_in_SD
Guest
K
kell0618
Guest
Hi Irene,
I’ll take that ‘LOL’ as not laughing at Catholics and the Church but with them.
What makes you think you have it right and Catholics are wrong? Based upon YOUR interpretation, Catholicism is wrong. Based up the first 1600 years or so, much of your interpretation was considered to be heresy to the Christian Church.
If the Holy Spirit tells me that the Catholic Church is right, and the Holy Spirit tells you that your choice of Christianity is right - then what? I will guess - YOU declare victory because you think YOU are right.
You know, I often am amazed at how Catholicism is continually attacked and yet when you look at the Eastern Orthodox Church, we have more in common with them than any protestant denomination or non-denom church. We parted ways 1,000 years ago, yet we have much of the same common interpretation. Perhaps in another 600 years, the continual re-inventing of the wheel will be complete and the ‘reformers’ will be realize that the Church was already complete back when it was the Catholic one. We’ll see.
Kelly
R
reen12
Guest
Re: the OP -You say you are right?
For just short of a thousand years, Orthodoxy and
Catholicism have both claimed to be the sole ‘authorized’
spokesman for deity. [1054 A.D. - the eastern wing of
Christendom broke off, ‘protesting’ over the filioque.]
Not quite 500 years after this, an Augustinian monk
took issue with the agents [of the Dominican Tetzel]
crying out, as they hawked indulgences:
“The moment the coin in the coffer rings
The soul from purgatory springs.”
Protest…once again. [aka ‘Protest-ant’ ]
The Church never taught that an indulgence might be ‘bought,’
yet it is interesting to note that people thought one could ‘purchase’
a relative out of purgatory.
Concepts that were taught ----->such as the ‘Treasury of Merit,’
‘economy’ of salvation, no doubt gave impetus to such a belief.
Deposits and Withdrawls…in terms of ‘grace.’
*Grace as ‘commodity.’ *
An indulgence was said to be tranferable to another,
and ‘applied’ to the other.
By 1500 A.D., the Jesus of the gospels became
unrecognizeable, under these doctrinal accretions -
‘treasury,’ ‘economy’ - and transferable spiritual
assests [aka ‘indulgences.’] This was more a
commercial approach to the spiritual.
One hesitates to think of what the founder of Christianity
might have thought of this.
“You have turned my Father’s house into a marketplace.”
God, and the things of God, reduced to the patois of
the banking house.
reen12
For just short of a thousand years, Orthodoxy and
Catholicism have both claimed to be the sole ‘authorized’
spokesman for deity. [1054 A.D. - the eastern wing of
Christendom broke off, ‘protesting’ over the filioque.]
Not quite 500 years after this, an Augustinian monk
took issue with the agents [of the Dominican Tetzel]
crying out, as they hawked indulgences:
“The moment the coin in the coffer rings
The soul from purgatory springs.”
Protest…once again. [aka ‘Protest-ant’ ]
The Church never taught that an indulgence might be ‘bought,’
yet it is interesting to note that people thought one could ‘purchase’
a relative out of purgatory.
Concepts that were taught ----->such as the ‘Treasury of Merit,’
‘economy’ of salvation, no doubt gave impetus to such a belief.
Deposits and Withdrawls…in terms of ‘grace.’
*Grace as ‘commodity.’ *
An indulgence was said to be tranferable to another,
and ‘applied’ to the other.
By 1500 A.D., the Jesus of the gospels became
unrecognizeable, under these doctrinal accretions -
‘treasury,’ ‘economy’ - and transferable spiritual
assests [aka ‘indulgences.’] This was more a
commercial approach to the spiritual.
One hesitates to think of what the founder of Christianity
might have thought of this.
“You have turned my Father’s house into a marketplace.”
God, and the things of God, reduced to the patois of
the banking house.
reen12
R
reen12
Guest
Re the OP You say you are right?
I can remember thinking, in 1954, that it was odd that
everybody before Jesus had to wait around a long time
to get to see God. And then I was told that the mother
of Jesus was not born in sin, because Jesus saved her
from that, before he was born.
A picture formed - of the ‘rays’ of grace going backwards.
But not way far backwards. Everybody in the waiting place
had to wait until their turn came. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
reen12
I can remember thinking, in 1954, that it was odd that
everybody before Jesus had to wait around a long time
to get to see God. And then I was told that the mother
of Jesus was not born in sin, because Jesus saved her
from that, before he was born.
A picture formed - of the ‘rays’ of grace going backwards.
But not way far backwards. Everybody in the waiting place
had to wait until their turn came. http://bestsmileys.com/nono/9.gif
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
reen12
N
notsmart
Guest
ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι, ὥσπερ ὁ πατὴρ ὑμῶν ὁ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς τέλειός ἐστιν.
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect
Mat 5:48
I guess Jesus did expect us to strive at least, for perfection.
He even said if you even look at a woman, (with lust) you have committed adultery.
He had high demands for purity.
Was it out of line?
Only if he did not give us means to achive this.
Only if he did not think we could achive this.
I don’t think he was out of line.
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect
Mat 5:48
I guess Jesus did expect us to strive at least, for perfection.
He even said if you even look at a woman, (with lust) you have committed adultery.
He had high demands for purity.
Was it out of line?
Only if he did not give us means to achive this.
Only if he did not think we could achive this.
I don’t think he was out of line.
R
reen12
Guest
How perfectly curious.
Here’s Jesus, counseling others to be perfect,
while he’s going about cursing a fig tree for
not producing figs…out of season.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Matthew 21:18-22
When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.
When the disciples saw this, they were amazed and said, “How was it that the fig tree withered immediately?”
Jesus said to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, if you have faith and do not waver,
not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,
‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will be done.
Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive.”
A bit of pique, on the part of Godhead?
He was hungry, and the tree had no figs…out of season.
So a growing plant is destroyed?
“…not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree…”
These are both the act and the mindset of Godhead?
A series of non-sequiturs?
Even the burnig bush was not consumed by I AM.
But, then, the God of Israel truly is God.
reen12
Here’s Jesus, counseling others to be perfect,
while he’s going about cursing a fig tree for
not producing figs…out of season.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Matthew 21:18-22
When he was going back to the city in the morning, he was hungry.
Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went over to it, but found nothing on it except leaves.
And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again.” And immediately the fig tree withered.
When the disciples saw this, they were amazed and said, “How was it that the fig tree withered immediately?”
Jesus said to them in reply, “Amen, I say to you, if you have faith and do not waver,
not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain,
‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ it will be done.
Whatever you ask for in prayer with faith, you will receive.”
A bit of pique, on the part of Godhead?
He was hungry, and the tree had no figs…out of season.
So a growing plant is destroyed?
“…not only will you do what has been done to the fig tree…”
These are both the act and the mindset of Godhead?
A series of non-sequiturs?
Even the burnig bush was not consumed by I AM.
But, then, the God of Israel truly is God.
reen12
- Status