You, yes you, are part neanderthal

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I’m not telling my wife about this story, then she’ll be convinced that would explain so many things about me! Though the other poster is correct about speciation and interbreeding: it is possible for two separate species to have fertile offspring, albeit rare.
Well, if you want to get really technical, it is the X chromosome that is shared. Women have two and men only have one. So, she’s more of a neanderthal than you! 😛

But more seriously, it is a shame that people still have this thought that neanderthals were dumb and thus turned into an insult.
 
It’s quite possible that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens were separate species. Many separate species can interbreed and produce fertile offspring (such as the hybrids of grizzly and polar bears).
I am not a geneticist, but I have been under the impression that the ability to produce fertile offspring is precisely the determinant of whether two seemingly different species are, in fact, just one, despite physiologic differences that might make one think otherwise.
 
I am not a geneticist, but I have been under the impression that the ability to produce fertile offspring is precisely the determinant of whether two seemingly different species are, in fact, just one, despite physiologic differences that might make one think otherwise.
The concept of species is not as definitively understood as one would think. The criterion of whether two individuals can sexually reproduce fertile offspring is a common one, but this criterion is not definitive for determining species status. For instance, many more primitive animals reproduce without sex – so one would have to find other ways of determining species status in asexually reproducing organisms.

In the case of extinct organisms, one could never know if they were able to sexual reproduce fertile offspring – unless you were able to ‘clone’ them from any DNA samples in the fossilized or remnant tissue.

Since Neanderthals separated from Homo sapiens no more than 500,000 years ago, the genetic distance between them was probably not so great as to prevent hybridization. (Polar bears separated from brown bears about 200,000 years ago.)
 
Well, if you want to get really technical, it is the X chromosome that is shared. Women have two and men only have one. So, she’s more of a neanderthal than you! 😛

But more seriously, it is a shame that people still have this thought that neanderthals were dumb and thus turned into an insult.
Ha ha, but no, she’s Japanese so no chance really of Neanderthal DNA there…but you are right, it wouldn’t appear the Neanderthal was a “stupid” hominid, probably lacking in the sophistication the average homo sapiens sapiens has, but by no means a dumb brute.
 
The concept of species is not as definitively understood as one would think. The criterion of whether two individuals can sexually reproduce fertile offspring is a common one, but this criterion is not definitive for determining species status. For instance, many more primitive animals reproduce without sex – so one would have to find other ways of determining species status in asexually reproducing organisms.

In the case of extinct organisms, one could never know if they were able to sexual reproduce fertile offspring – unless you were able to ‘clone’ them from any DNA samples in the fossilized or remnant tissue.

Since Neanderthals separated from Homo sapiens no more than 500,000 years ago, the genetic distance between them was probably not so great as to prevent hybridization. (Polar bears separated from brown bears about 200,000 years ago.)
What do you mean by “separated”. Separated geographically? That doesn’t make them separate species, any more than the ages-long separation of, say, Rifs from Australoids makes them separate species.
 
Ha ha, but no, she’s Japanese so no chance really of Neanderthal DNA there…but you are right, it wouldn’t appear the Neanderthal was a “stupid” hominid, probably lacking in the sophistication the average homo sapiens sapiens has, but by no means a dumb brute.
How sure are you that Ainu didn’t have any Neanderthal forbears? One would not discount that possibility by looking at them. Nor can any Japanese discount the possibility that he/she has Ainu in his/her ancestery, as much as many would prefer not to think so.

And, of course, lack of sophistication doesn’t tell us a whole lot. The earliest Brits landing in Australia and confronting the aborigines would have posed an even more striking “sophistication” contrast than would have been the case between neanderthals and homo sapiens.
 
How sure are you that Ainu didn’t have any Neanderthal forbears? One would not discount that possibility by looking at them. Nor can any Japanese discount the possibility that he/she has Ainu in his/her ancestery, as much as many would prefer not to think so.

And, of course, lack of sophistication doesn’t tell us a whole lot. The earliest Brits landing in Australia and confronting the aborigines would have posed an even more striking “sophistication” contrast than would have been the case between neanderthals and homo sapiens.
Well, possibly, though not a notion I would suggest to my wife since I don’t like sleeping on the couch! Most Japanese are very…quietly and politely proud, shall we say, of their japanese-ness, and for many, suggesting they might have some ancestry of anything other than Japanese, and especially the Ainu who do not have exactly a high degree of esteem in Japanese society, would be likely to make you persona non grata to say the least.😃
 
Ugg…

This thread makes the intro to the song Hooked on a Feeling pop into my head when I see it.
 
Ha ha, but no, she’s Japanese so no chance really of Neanderthal DNA there…but you are right, it wouldn’t appear the Neanderthal was a “stupid” hominid, probably lacking in the sophistication the average homo sapiens sapiens has, but by no means a dumb brute.
The Japanese are included in the “Neanderthal” family. All human lines that left Africa 30,000+ years ago are included, and that means Japanese too; her ancestors left Africa, and on the way East they met up with Neanderthals. East Asians are not as distant from Europeans as you might think. 🙂

My wife is Japanese and she found the Neanderthal thing to be an interesting and fun bit of information, though she’s hardly a traditional Nihonjin by any stretch of the imagination. 😛

I for one am not surprised by this at all. I never bought the idea that Neanderthals were such a distinct species from humans; there just wasn’t enough physical variation to reach that conclusion, IMO.

Peace and God bless!
 
Well, possibly, though not a notion I would suggest to my wife since I don’t like sleeping on the couch! Most Japanese are very…quietly and politely proud, shall we say, of their japanese-ness, and for many, suggesting they might have some ancestry of anything other than Japanese, and especially the Ainu who do not have exactly a high degree of esteem in Japanese society, would be likely to make you persona non grata to say the least.😃
This is kind of interesting, though it’s not quite topical, so I’ll make it brief. Possibly you know this, but I have read, in any case, that Japanese are a mixed race, composed largely of Malay and Korean stock with possibly tiny smatterings of Chinese and even perhaps a touch of Polynesian. And, of course, the Ainu are in the background. Some have observed that there is a sort of 'class difference" among Japanese; the more upper enders being taller, slender, more refined in appearance while the working and farmer classes are shorter, more robust and with a rougher overall appearance. Whether that’s “nature” or “nurture” is hard to know, of course.

It is generally accepted, however, that Japanese are now perhaps the least genetically diverse of all the world’s peoples, undoubtedly the result of long centuries of non-admixture with other peoples after a very ancient point in time.
 
Interesting read, thanks.
so would those of us with ancestry from Spain and France have some Neandertal genetics?
 
I for one am not surprised by this at all. I never bought the idea that Neanderthals were such a distinct species from humans; there just wasn’t enough physical variation to reach that conclusion, IMO.

Peace and God bless!
One of my daughters is an anthropologist who worked out her own "protocol’ for determining those things those folks can determine from studying skeletal remains. That protocol is now being used by others, including her own university’s professors.She has also long doubted that Neanderthals were a distinct “species”; her doubts being based on some of the skeletal “markers”, some of which are very, very indicative of racial or ethnic origins or mixes thereof. Some of the “markers” serve no “survival” purpose whatever, and are simply the result of mutations that tend to repeat down through generations. Neanderthals share some of those inheritable but (from an evolutionists point of view) absolutely useless markers with some moderns, particularly northern Europeans.
 
Between 1% and 4% of the Eurasian human genome seems to come from Neanderthals.

While the Neanderthal genetic contribution - found in people from Europe, Asia and Oceania - appears to be small, this figure is higher than previous genetic analyses have suggested.
 
Between 1% and 4% of the Eurasian human genome seems to come from Neanderthals.

While the Neanderthal genetic contribution - found in people from Europe, Asia and Oceania - appears to be small, this figure is higher than previous genetic analyses have suggested.
I realize how much anthropologists like to think in terms of these evolutionary trees and all, but I truly do wonder whether there is any actual branching to the human species at all. I can accept the notion of evolution. Doesn’t bother me. But I sometimes think these distinctions are a bit strained because so many just simply want to believe in them.
 
Interesting read, thanks.
so would those of us with ancestry from Spain and France have some Neandertal genetics?
Yes, it is saying that everyone who is not sub-Saharan African has some Neanderthal DNA.
 
What do you mean by “separated”. Separated geographically? That doesn’t make them separate species, any more than the ages-long separation of, say, Rifs from Australoids makes them separate species.
I mean “separated” as in the two populations begin to separate reproductively from each other. Members of each population begin to breed only with members of the same popluation.

Different Homo sapiens peoples may have been separated for, say, 50,000 years (and nowadays such separation no longer exists, for the most part), but it would take hundreds of thousands of years of such separation to produce distinct species.
 
but it would take hundreds of thousands of years of such separation to produce distinct species.
But would it ever, necessarily? If Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens are really just human beings with somewhat different physiognomies, in the main, is there really any good reason to assume that human DNA would change suffiently to create a species diversification? It seems there is an underlying assumption in your statement that geographic separation will inevitably cause species differention from a single specie root; specifically that some kind of “invisible hand” drives evolution toward goals. But is there really a good reason to believe that? After all, sharks, crocodiles and other species have remained essentially the same for far longer than hundreds of thousands of years and we, for instance, might not represent any evolutionary improvement over Neanderthals any more than Belgians did over the 19th Century residents of the Congo, notwithstanding the differences in technological achievement between the two.
 
In my humble observation, neither Neandertals populations nor Homo sapiens populations have sufficient evidence for human nature which is the same as yours and mine. The use of the word human for every Tom, Dick or Harry fossil is an exaggeration.
 
But would it ever, necessarily? If Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens are really just human beings with somewhat different physiognomies, in the main, is there really any good reason to assume that human DNA would change suffiently to create a species diversification?
Supposedly, a Homo erectus population diverged sufficiently from other Homo erecti, producing the first Homo sapiens. Or maybe some other species of Homo was most directly ancestral to Homo sapiens. In any event, there’s no reason to suppose that Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens could not have diverged even further from each other, if only because other species of Homo have experienced genetic divergence from their ancestors.

Of course, it’s possible that the rate of divergence between H. neanderthalensis and H. sapiens would have slowed down to zero. The fact that Neanderthals and Homo sapiens interbred, would have largely halted such divergence. But if the two groups had stopped interbreeding, then the rate of divergence would have likely gradually increased.

Certain species of shark and whatnot may have continued over millions of years with little genetic change, true, but that doesn’t stop other shark species and whatnot from experiencing further genetic change.

(My characterizing of Neanderthals as a separate species is not universally accepted, but I find the arguments for it relatively convincing.)
 
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