You'll be happy to know that

[hoosierdaddy]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

 

[corvidae]

I am happy some of us are having a psoitive influence on you, and I am happy that you are reading scriptures searching for truth rather than something to justify your belief.

You are having a positive influence on some of us too hoosierdaddy.

A lone Raven

 

[Church_Militant]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either.

I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.My dear friend
Until we are willing to follow wherever the Holy Spirit leads us are we not still choosing our own will over His?

As for Sola Fide falling…good, that’s a start. Do you yet realize that SF is only purported by those who also hold to SS? If the essential doctrine that one believes is fallacious then are not all the subsequent doctrines that are derived from it suspect?

The peace of the Lord be always with you.

 

[Rawb]

Kinda makes you wonder what else you missed, eh? I know that when I was a protestant and started learning about Catholicism I had the “That IS in the Bible!” experience several times. I was so used to hearing the same verses again and again that I never noticed some of it.

Can’t reject Sola Fide? So do you think now (not trying to be argumentative) that we’re saved by faith, but justified through works? Sola Fide means ‘saved by faith’ right?

 

[ribozyme]

Kinda makes you wonder what else you missed, eh? I know that when I was a protestant and started learning about Catholicism I had the “That IS in the Bible!” experience several times. I was so used to hearing the same verses again and again that I never noticed some of it.

Can’t reject Sola Fide? So do you think now (not trying to be argumentative) that we’re saved by faith, but justified through works? Sola Fide means ‘saved by faith’ right?

Sola Fide means faith alone…

 

[MrS]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

Hoosier, thanks for sticking to your guns and reading Scripture yourself to see what it might mean. Catholics, too, are encouraged to read the Bible… but they usually don’t. They have this mindset that the Church will tell them what to do… and when the Church doesn’t, well, they are left with nothing… and become easy prey to be drawn out of the Church and into any one of thousands of non or anti-Catholic denominations.

You could be entering into a quest for knowledge that could lead you anywhere, but I pray it will be to the Truth.

Yes, the Holy Spirit will guide you. But additionally, He has set the guidelines to do this for you. The biggest will be the unchanging teachings on doctrine found in the Catholic Church.

I will pray for your strength to overcome Catholics themselves, who will make this difficult for you.

 

[rr1213]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

James is one of my favorite books. Protestants often read Romans and Ephesians and fail to read James. Sometimes I think that Catholics read James and fail to read Romans and Ephesians. James tells us that a faith that does not result in good works is dead. James tells us that we cannot credit ourselves because we belief that God is one, because even the demons believe that and shudder. So, a faith that does not display the fruit of good works is a faith that is not a saving faith, but merely an intellectual faith. There are numerous threads in this forum regarding the faith/works discussion with posts by some pretty sharp people on both the Catholic and Protestant sides of the issue. I would encourage you to do a search for those threads and read them.

 

[MilesXpisti]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

I was raised in Evangelical Protestantism (my father is himself a Freewill Baptist transplanted from Anglicanism), and I know all too well what you’re feeling. When you discover that one thing that you’ve been told all your life isn’t true, then you begin to wonder if any of it is. Thankfully, my search for answers lead me to Holy Mother Church. I’ll pray to Our Lord that you’ll find comfort in your discovery and that the outcome for you is the same. God bless you.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Thank you everyone. Thanks for your prayers too.

I do have to clarify though. I still believe in Sola Fide. I cannot reject it because I believe Scripture teaches this 100%.

However, salvation and justification are two different things and I did read about justification in James last night. But even if I got this wrong and they are the same thing, it is still by faith. The good works come as a result of the faith. But I have learned something. Thanks again.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thank you everyone. Thanks for your prayers too.

I do have to clarify though. I still believe in Sola Fide. I cannot reject it because I believe Scripture teaches this 100%.

However, salvation and justification are two different things and I did read about justification in James last night. But even if I got this wrong and they are the same thing, it is still by faith. The good works come as a result of the faith. But I have learned something. Thanks again.

Doesn’t wash in the light of Matthew 25:31-46 Bro.
Pax tecum,

 

[rr1213]

Thank you everyone. Thanks for your prayers too.

I do have to clarify though. I still believe in Sola Fide. I cannot reject it because I believe Scripture teaches this 100%.

However, salvation and justification are two different things and I did read about justification in James last night. But even if I got this wrong and they are the same thing, it is still by faith. The good works come as a result of the faith. But I have learned something. Thanks again.

How are salvation and justification two different things? They are the same thing. Now, justification and sanctification are two different things. We are saved by grace through faith and unto good works. We have nothing to add to our salvation, which is by the grace of God alone (I’ve been told Catholics believe this also). However, we do participate in our sanctification.

 

[Fidelis]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

hoosierdaddy - I respect your honesty and openess about this. You will find that there are many evident truths in the Scriptures that you have not previously been exposed to, but are nonetheless there.

Also, I apologize for badgering you on a previous topic. It will not happen again.

 

[scylla]

Glad your sticking around, I know these boards get kinda messy sometimes so I encourage you to stick it out, it takes a little bit of bravery to search the Scriptures and do what you are doing, so keep it up.

Yesterday I got into a huge discussion at an office where I work and I was not that charitable as they were just slamming me with questions and it is hard to be charitable when you have this sort of situation, so instead of just answering their questions I trapped one guy, pointed out his mistake and kept hammering him until he would admit he was wrong.
It wasn’t the most charitable way to go but sometimes emotion takes over and we don’t do the right thing. He even said, “that isn’t the way to convert anyone the way you talk.”
I thought that proving him wrong in front of the others would help, but when I went to the other room to fix the computer then they just started talking again with each other about me.

So the point is we all mess up sometimes in the way we share our faith and sometimes even with good intentions we insult or anger people. I have seen some of the threads you have been on and I encourage you to be patient with us and hopefully most of us will be patient with you.
(I can’t speak for everyone)

God Bless
Scylla

 

[VociMike]

I salute you for having the integrity to follow the truth as you see it, even if it lead you in this one case where you do not want to go.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

Hoosier-

If you haven’t ignored me, then I just want to let you know that I am very thrilled to read your post.

I sometimes consider apologetics discussions to be like a game of backyard football where the kids pummel the stuffing out of each other…then walk happily down to the corner drugstore for an ice cream together afterword.

If I pummel too hard, just dish it right back.

And the ice cream’s on me!

 

[BlestOne]

Hoosier,
Glad to see that you checked it out for yourself! My hubby had similiar experiences after talking to me about Catholicism. Apparently in his faith they skipped alot of verses and chapters too. Once he read them he had lots of studying and thinking to do… Hope your search leads you to the Truth too.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hoosier,
Glad to see that you checked it out for yourself! My hubby had similiar experiences after talking to me about Catholicism. Apparently in his faith they skipped alot of verses and chapters too. Once he read them he had lots of studying and thinking to do… Hope your search leads you to the Truth too.

Scott Hahn makes the point that when he was a Presbyterian minister, he tended to preach again and again on his favorite passages. People in his congregation might never him speak on some verses.

In the Catholic Church, of course, if someone were to attend daily mass, they would hear practically the entire bible read over a three year period.

We don’t all attend daily mass, but the Church certainly offers us the option to do so.

 

[quasimodo]

Thank you everyone. Thanks for your prayers too.

I do have to clarify though. I still believe in Sola Fide. I cannot reject it because I believe Scripture teaches this 100%.

However, salvation and justification are two different things and I did read about justification in James last night. But even if I got this wrong and they are the same thing, it is still by faith. The good works come as a result of the faith. But I have learned something. Thanks again.

Salvation and Justification may indeed be two different things. But, in the ordinary course of events, isn’t justification a necessary (but perhaps not sufficient) condition to salvation?

You admit to “justification being by faith AND works.”

In the ordinary course of event, are unjustified people saved? Can a dead faith save you?

No work of ours can force our salvation. God never owes us salvation. But through grace and a living faith we can be saved . A living faith is one brought to life through works accoring to James.

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.

Is a dead faith salvific?

 

[Lukelion]

hoosierdaddy
A quote by Marcus Grodi: " I am a former Protestant minister. Like so many others who have trodden the path that leads to Rome by way of that country known as Protestantism, I never imagined I would one day convert to Catholicism."

He has a list of 10 verses he never saw as a Protestant at chnetwork.org/newsletters/Sept06.pdf

I pray we all have the fullness of truth, and I am glad you are open to searching. Would you be willing to check these verses out as well?

 

[mercygate]

I found out I was wrong. I read CLOSELY the second chapter of James.

It DOES talk about justification being by faith AND works. I was angry when I read it though. I had never seen that before.

I am far from Catholic but I wanted to let some of you know that I am not an idiot and I know how to search the Scriptures. I also wanted to let you know that even though I am not even close to being a Catholic, some of you have been a positive influence on me.

Looks to me like one of the Sola’s was shot down. I’m hurt and I’m angry. I’m sorry though, but I just cannot reject Sola Scriptura. I cannot reject Sola Fide either. I hope everyone has a good day tomorrow. I’m outta here for the night.

Take it easy, Hoosier. This stuff can just about do you in. Take it from one who has been there. The first time I read Irenaeus of Lyons on the primacy of the See of Rome, I couldn’t breathe for a week. The first time I saw the words in I Tim 3:15 that it is not the Bible but the church that is "the pillar and bulwark of the truth, they almost had to take me to the Emergency Room!