Young Earth Creationists

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Quote me where I said that I believe the world is 6,000 years old. Time and time again, I stated that I am not discussing the evidence for and/or against evolution/creationism. I am discussing the position of the church on the matter, and its consistency. Majority of Muslims keep silent on this matter, because the Qur’an is silent on the age of the world, and as Allah tells us in the Qur’an, he didn’t make us witness to His creating the world.
 
If thats the case you’ve done nothing but waste the gift of the time Allah has blessed us with.

All you’ve done is misinterpet and misrepresent your personal opinion of Church teaching. Not once have you even come close to showing that the Church ever infallibly defined the Universe is 10,000 years old or less.

@SalamKhan I will make a covenant with you: show me where the Church OFFICIALLY taught the Universe and World were young - a document from an Ecumenical Council, a Papal Encyclical, a Catechism, not just some individual saints opinion because that is NOT official Church magisterium - and then show me where the Church officially promulgated the contradictory view that the World is ancient.

If you can do this, I will publicly renounce my faith in Catholic Christianity, and I will then be open to converting to Islam.
 
By chance, have you heard of potassium-argon dating? We use this to date rocks as old as 4 billion years.
 
People try to discredit the Bible, the creation story in particular to discredit God are to put doubt like there is no God. Well we had to be made from and infinite being at one point in time because we are physical matter and he is outside of time which means he has no beginning and no end. Our physical bodies have a beginning in an end. But our finite minds will never grasp Gods’ intelligence.

The soul transcend’s when egg and the sperm meet. That’s why the Church is really strong on saying no to abortion or any method to prevent childbirth.
 
Spyridon said:
If thats the case you’ve done nothing but waste the gift of the time Allah has blessed us with.
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I agree, and unfortunately I tend to do this a lot.
Spyridon said:
Not once have you even come close to showing that the Church ever infallibly defined the Universe is 10,000 years old or less.
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Because it’s not something I ever claimed, if you paid attention to my conversation with Kei, I was speaking from the viewpoint of the consensus of the Church Fathers and the Ordinary Universal Magisterium (until the 19/20th century). If, according to your epistemology, the aforementioned hold no weight, then even the doctrine of the Trinity can be considered a mere opinion if it were never infallibly defined (and not all Catholics agree as to what exactly is an infallible definition).
 
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Can you show me where it was ever taught by the Magisterium (an Ecumenical Council document, a Papal bull or encyclical, a Catechism, something official) that the Universe is under 10k years old?

If not, what you regard as the “consensus” of the Fathers is merely your personal opinion, not an authentic Magisterial teaching of the Church.
 
A consensus is observable/verifiable. A consensus is not dependent upon whether a specific entity deems it to be a consensus. In that case, the Church Fathers could have been silent on something, and according to your epistemology, if the Magisterium claims that something is based on consensus, the claim would be true. Was the Trinity a mere opinion in the first three centuries?

Anyway, several Catechisms heavily imply a Young Earth, via a literal interpretation of the creation account in Genesis:

 
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Just looked @SalamKhan

There’s not a single reference given where the Church says “the Earth is 6,000 years old” or “we decree and define that the understanding that the Earth is 6,000 years old is to be definitively held by the faithful to the end of time, and anybody who says otherwise is anathema.”

It simply shows the Church talking about the Creation of Adam and Eve and God creating the world.

@SalamKhan if you can show me the Church teaching that the Earth is 6,000 years old I will publicly renounce Catholicism here and now.

Cmon @SalamKhan, you will be held responsible by Allah for not enlightening an infidel if you can’t do this simple task.
 
Spyridon said:
There’s not a single reference given where the Church says
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And I didn’t say there was.
Spyridon said:
Cmon @SalamKhan, you will be held responsible by Allah for not enlightening an infidel if you can’t do this simple task.
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I can’t, because you imposed a rigid criteria which I never claimed to prove my assertion. A rigid criteria which was pretty much non-existent in the first millennium, and reduces the vast majority of your doctrines to mere opinions, whether they were previously undefined and are now defined, or whether they are still yet to be defined.
 
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The church had historically been silent on the specific number of the world’s age, because there is discrepancy between the various textual traditions of the Old Testament. Nonetheless, if it is in scripture, it is a matter for the church, unless you’re saying that the church has no right to declare upon scripture. And I have shown that at the very least, the church in some ‘official’ capacity has declared upon a literal interpretation of the creation in Genesis.

Before putting such unrestricted hope in science, consider the following verses in scripture:

“Nothing may be taken away, nor added, neither is it possible to find out the glorious works of God: When a man hath done, then shall he begin: And when he leaveth off, he shall be at a loss.” (Ecclesiasticus 18:5-6).

“And I understood that man can find no reason of all those works of God that are done under the sun: and the more he shall labor to seek, so much the less shall he find: yea, though the wise man shall say, that he knoweth it, he shall not be able to find it.” (Ecclesiastes 8:17).

“For the works of the Highest only are wonderful, and his works are glorious, secret, and hidden.” (Ecclesiasticus 11:4).

“For great is the power of God alone, and he is honoured by the humble. Seek not the things that are too high for thee, and search not into things above thy ability: but the things that God hath commanded thee, think on them always, and in many of his works be not curious. For it is not necessary for thee to see with thy eyes those things that are hid. In unnecessary matters be not over curious, and in many of his works thou shalt not be inquisitive. For many things are shewn to thee above the understanding of men. And the suspicion of them hath deceived man, and hath detained their minds in vanity.” (Ecclesiasticus 3:21-26)

You should ponder upon what end (if any at all) does unrestricted science (by that I mean modern Physics and such) lead to.
 
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LOL, why have I been wasting my time? May Allah forgive me.
 
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SalamKhan said:
See above. Someone like yourself, who has no epistemology, has no business attempting to define what is impossible.
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Bald assertions do not make for reason.
I believe Benedict was right in noting the lack of “logos” in some other religions.
 
Sorry that you’ve been having a bad experience… Can I ask, if you could succinctly state your view on the matter at hand (young earth creationism and whether it is a view to be respected, etc.), what would you say? I’m asking out of curiosity.

On threads like these, the conversations get so carried away and branch off into many things, we often forget what the original views of the posters are. I feel like it’s more conducive to a good discussion to have a time to neatly state ones’ opinion. I guess I’m sort of a neat freak, though 😊
 
I put young earth creationist in the same boat as flat earthers - everything around us tells us that the earth is billions of years old nothing around us tells us its 6000 yrs old - but i guess we are supposed to ignore whats right in front of us - God gave us minds to think and understand and knew that we would explore the origins of the universe - much like the flat earthers not one piece of evidence exists to say the earth is 6000 yrs old. There Is no evidence that the earth is only 6000 yrs old.
 
The idea that the Church only deals with faith and morals has been condemned, and threads like this would not exist if that was not the case. Of course it talks about science:

"The Time Question

“Much less has been defined as to when the universe, life, and man appeared. The Church has infallibly determined that the universe is of finite age—that it has not existed from all eternity—but it has not infallibly defined whether the world was created only a few thousand years ago or whether it was created several billion years ago.”
  • Catholic Answers
 
Can you solve an equation that has a natural logarithm in it? That’s all
you need to solve a radiometric dating problem, friend. Pretty sure they
teach that in high school.
 
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It’s an interesting theory, please share the Catholic theologians who
support it.
 
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Aborigines are in Australia, but aboriginals are only in Zoolander, I’m
afraid 🙂

And how exactly has it been scientifically proven that aborigines have
“been here for nearly 60,000 years”? What method of dating was used?
 
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MLowe75 said:
Aborigines are in Australia, but aboriginals are only in Zoolander, I’m

afraid 🙂
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We use the terms Aboriginals as well as Indigenous people here in Australia. Unsure what your point?
“Aboriginal involvement, Aboriginal permission, Aboriginal rights over the excavation itself are very important in this kind of endeavour,” he said.
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This is a quote from one of the links below.
MLowe75 said:
And how exactly has it been scientifically proven that aborigines have

“been here for nearly 60,000 years”? What method of dating was used?
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You can find further information both here and here.
 
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