Young Earth v. Old Earth

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edwest2 said:
This is almost word for word what I’m reading elsewhere. Misleading statements and the exaltation of the mind of man above God.

“Man is the measure of all things.”

“Man invents himself.” How very, very false.

Peace,
Ed
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Come on, Ed. Do you really think that someone expressing a true sense of discovery and excitement in scientific pursuits has to be guilty of hubris?

For one thing I don’t see where any of your quotes come from. Are you implying that they were implied?

Best,

Tor
 
SFTor said:
You have no argument from me. I love science. I was simply describing what may be part of the perception in science in the public at large. Science changes its mind, it quibbles, it disagrees with itself, it gets numerical on us. I think these qualities make many feel that “they can’t trust it.”

In a previous job I was sitting in a meeting room at the Jet Propulsion Lab, listening to a bunch of space scientists discuss whether there is water on Mars. Thank God the ceiling was tightly screwed down. It was one of the most wonderful two hours of my life. You hit it on the head: it was FUN.
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I an not a scientist but have always enjoyed science and have never had a conflict believing in the Creation or in the Concept of Evolution. Let God alone to do His work the way that He wants to. Let Him out of the Box you so neatly put Him in people. You should be ashamed that you have so little faith that you can only believe a story designed for the minds of children (in mentality and development ) to understand.

I am an old man now. I believe in God more than ever. Everywhere I look I see His work. Why are the science haters so Blind! Shame on their lack of faith. Why is it so hard??

I wait with baited breath. Will they discover signs of previous life on mars. I’m almost afraid they will find life elsewhere in the Universe. But what Is really terrifying is that they will not.😦
 
ROBIN97 said:
I an not a scientist but have always enjoyed science and have never had a conflict believing in the Creation or in the Concept of Evolution. Let God alone to do His work the way that He wants to. Let Him out of the Box you so neatly put Him in people. You should be ashamed that you have so little faith that you can only believe a story designed for the minds of children (in mentality and development ) to understand.

I am an old man now. I believe in God more than ever. Everywhere I look I see His work. Why are the science haters so Blind! Shame on their lack of faith. Why is it so hard??

I wait with baited breath. Will they discover signs of previous life on mars. I’m almost afraid they will find life elsewhere in the Universe. But what Is really terrifying is that they will not.😦
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Well Robin,

they’ll keep looking, that’s for sure. And I’m with you: it’s exciting. I wouldn’t be very surprised if they find traces of microbial life on Mars.
 
SFTor said:
Come on, Ed. Do you really think that someone expressing a true sense of discovery and excitement in scientific pursuits has to be guilty of hubris?

For one thing I don’t see where any of your quotes come from. Are you implying that they were implied?

Best,

Tor
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Hi Tor,

“Man is the measure of all things” is quoted from the Greek philosopher Protagoras. It means the individual human being rather than god or unchanging moral law is the source of value.

Here, I see very little other than this. The Bible tells us that the foolish things of the world please God and confound the wise.

I know brilliant people, but they are not so caught up in politics and the here and now.

As an avid reader of science and a historian of technology, I always see hubris coming into play. Man takes his childlike knowledge and has to use it for something later on. In many cases, it becomes a weapon. Sometimes a physical weapon, other times a psychological one.

The knowledge of God is real knowledge but it is dragged through the mud here. It becomes allegory or mythology. And, on other forums, that is where the discussion always ends up, back at the Bible. On the really bad forums, Christians are called names, called ignorant and “if only they understood…” But if they continue and do not accept evolution, it’s the Bible that is attacked. They are told to forget about their book of fairy tales. That there is no invisible man in the sky. That’s what it always comes down to when “acceptance” doesn’t occur.

This forum is far more strict, and therefore, more polite than most others. But the same marketing program is in play. The goal: universal acceptance of evolution.

If you’re interested, look up Human Persons Created in the Image of God online. Go to part 69. It’s quite clear.

Peace,
Ed
 
edwest2 said:
Hi Tor,

“Man is the measure of all things” is quoted from the Greek philosopher Protagoras. It means the individual human being rather than god or unchanging moral law is the source of value.

Here, I see very little other than this. The Bible tells us that the foolish things of the world please God and confound the wise.

I know brilliant people, but they are not so caught up in politics and the here and now.

As an avid reader of science and a historian of technology, I always see hubris coming into play. Man takes his childlike knowledge and has to use it for something later on. In many cases, it becomes a weapon. Sometimes a physical weapon, other times a psychological one.

The knowledge of God is real knowledge but it is dragged through the mud here. It becomes allegory or mythology. And, on other forums, that is where the discussion always ends up, back at the Bible. On the really bad forums, Christians are called names, called ignorant and “if only they understood…” But if they continue and do not accept evolution, it’s the Bible that is attacked. They are told to forget about their book of fairy tales. That there is no invisible man in the sky. That’s what it always comes down to when “acceptance” doesn’t occur.

This forum is far more strict, and therefore, more polite than most others. But the same marketing program is in play. The goal: universal acceptance of evolution.

If you’re interested, look up Human Persons Created in the Image of God online. Go to part 69. It’s quite clear.

Peace,
Ed
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Hello Ed:

I simply don’t understand what evolution has to do with Christianity. Darwin was Christian, and expressly said that he thought God had set the process in motion.

There doesn’t seem to be any quarrel with Darwin at any rate. If you have a beef with people like Dawkins and Hitchens, that’s certainly understandable. They do believe in strict materialism. My understanding of their position however is that they are counter-attacking creationists, who are attempting to get creationism taught in science classes. There I agree with them. I do not believe creationism is scientific, just as I believe that the theory of evolution is not religious.

Best regards,

Tor
 
algran said:
There have been many evangelicals lately who hold to the Young Earth theory, that the earth is 6,000 years old. They deduce this from scripture. I would like to know what some of you CF members think of this theory. It seems to me that science has provided considerable evidence that shows the contrary: that the earth is very old. About 4.5 billion years. Please render your comments on this subject. Thanks.
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**I think the vast majority of Catholic Christians would agree with you - that science has provided considerable evidence that shows the contrary: that the earth is very old. About 4.5 billion years. **
 
peary said:
**I think the vast majority of Catholic Christians would agree with you - that science has provided considerable evidence that shows the contrary: that the earth is very old. About 4.5 billion years. **
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Why should we trust Godless Science?
 
historyb said:
Why should we trust Godless Science?
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Because it enables you to display your thoughts across the world in electronic form. How many mentions of God are thre in an electronics textbook or in the instruction manual for the computer you are using? Both are Godless Science. You might with to consider adopting the same lifestyle as the Amish - they avoid a great deal of Godless Science.

rossum
 
I don’t trust atheistic science that says we came from goo period. I am a Creationist
 
Jerry-Jet said:
Eden existed on a different plane and dimension.

Young Earth and Old Earth are both true!

If anyone tried to travel from our plane to Eden’s plane they would be stopped by the angel with the sword!

Eden exists in present day Iraq on a different plane and dimension.

It is as real beneath the accidents of present day and time Iraq as Jesus is present beneath the accidents of bread and wine in the Eucharist!

For all the Catholics out there who believe in the substantial presence of Jesus in the eucharist–whether old earth evolution believers or young earth literal creationist believers–do you have any problem with my explanation?
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Yeah, like, what the heck are you talking about?? :confused:
 
Wonder, if he gets sick, if he’s going to reject “atheistic” antibiotic protocols.

Or if his toilet backs up, he’ll refuse to consider “atheistic” plumbing.

Or… 😃
 
SFTor said:
I have heard a recent estimate that there are 135 million people who believe in the Young Earth Theory of Creation in the United States.

Has anyone read or seen this statistic anywhere? It’s a pretty staggering number if it is true.

I will admit it boggles my mind a little. I mean Mesopotamians and Chaldeans were already brewing beer 6,000 years ago.
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What is it in oujr society that causes people to totally reject science and technology to embrace that the world is only 6000 years old? It’s rather sad.
 
rossum said:
Because it enables you to display your thoughts across the world in electronic form. How many mentions of God are thre in an electronics textbook or in the instruction manual for the computer you are using? Both are Godless Science. You might with to consider adopting the same lifestyle as the Amish - they avoid a great deal of Godless Science.

rossum
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Rossum, please educate me on the relationship between the Buddhist concept of the World as illusion and the scientific method.

Best,

Tor
 
SFTor said:
Hello Ed:

I simply don’t understand what evolution has to do with Christianity. Darwin was Christian, and expressly said that he thought God had set the process in motion.

There doesn’t seem to be any quarrel with Darwin at any rate. If you have a beef with people like Dawkins and Hitchens, that’s certainly understandable. They do believe in strict materialism. My understanding of their position however is that they are counter-attacking creationists, who are attempting to get creationism taught in science classes. There I agree with them. I do not believe creationism is scientific, just as I believe that the theory of evolution is not religious.

Best regards,

Tor
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Tor,

The secular world tells us that “nature” through mutation and natural selection brought man into being. That’s it. You’re done.

The Catholic Church tells Catholics quite plainly, that God, through divine providence, was intimately involved. Any sort of evolution that may have occurred was infallibly guided by the will of God (see "Human Persons Created in the Image of God, part 69). So, you see, man was not just a right turn or wrong turn on a random winding road, but a predetermined result. By God. Not a symbolic God. Not a 2,000 year old God, but a real person.

It is interesting that some Catholics who were taught, and actually believe, that they will meet the living God at the final judgement, also believe a theory that tells them “natural forces” brought them into existence.

Some here make a very weak connection between evolution and God, but more as an afterthought: “Oh yes, and God.” That seems totally lacking in a connection to God as a reality.

Catholics do not pray to no one. We will not be judged by no one. Evolution has been the motivation of many scientists to say that it negates a role for God. The Pope knows this and has addressed it. This is not only some “opinion” but is being used to shape public policy.

However, there are those here whose only concern is power, political power, and the manipulation of that power. If some so-called, self-named “Christian” group wants to force God into public schools, I am against that. However, the Catholic Church teaches that God did not just drop kick creation into motion, He intervenes, directly. The greatest intervention being the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So, on this forum, I recommend avoiding the “get your religion out of my public school” commentary since that is not what this is about. It is about people believing that they are only animals, and subject to no higher law or power. Or that they are only bags of chemicals programmed by their genes, and whose only goal is to successfully reproduce. Problem is, computers are not in the habit of programming themselves. That’s where it all breaks down.

God bless,
Ed
 
SFTor said:
Rossum, please educate me on the relationship between the Buddhist concept of the World as illusion and the scientific method.
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Buddhism sees the world as like a mirage - it is not what it appers to be. But also it is not nothing at all - a mirage is something rather than nothing. The world is not what it appears to be: mountains appear to be permanent but they are not. We appear to have souls but we do not. Careful investigation is required to determine the correct nature of the world.

Science assumes that the world is consistent, it does not require that the world is real. “Reality” is more of a question for philosophers. For example, if we were all being fed a virtual reality by the computers in The Matrix, then science would still work as long as that virtual reality was consistent. The consistency is required for the repeatability of experiments. Science requires careful investigation to elucidate the underlying structure and laws that determine the consistency of the world.

Buddhism is quite happy with an illusory but consistent world. Science is quite happy with a consistent but illusory world.

rossum
 
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