Young Earth v. Old Earth

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God created the heaven and earth. God has always existed. So what has earth has always existed in some form. Man has existed for some 6000 years. It is not accurate to p(name removed by moderator)oint how old some things in the galaxy actually are. I don’t believe in evolution whatsoever. What was in the atomosphere was said to be void. No light. Basically we can’t determine how old the earth is itself until God reveals things to us that he intends to reveal to us If and when we make it to heaven. Man we can actually p(name removed by moderator)oint an approximate figure on when Adam was created in the likeness of God’s image. It is such a shame science is starting to become a religion these days. God intended science to help mankind and yet people put science before God. They might as well say “Thank science” instead of thanking God. I honestly think that the physical aspects of earth are roughly 6000 years, right around the time God created man. Call me crazy, but today scientist are just paid to give us a bunch of hogwash.
 
God’s creation is his word. There are tons of methods that scientists use to determine the age of the Earth. Geologists and geophysicists consider the age of Earth to be around 4.54 billion years, based on overwhelming evidence.

Science works based on how God created the universe. If the evidence points to 4.5 billion year old earth, but the Earth is really only 6,000 years old, then you are accusing God of lying.

Science and God say the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old.
 
larsegarots said:
God’s creation is his word. There are tons of methods that scientists use to determine the age of the Earth. Geologists and geophysicists consider the age of Earth to be around 4.54 billion years, based on overwhelming evidence.

Science works based on how God created the universe. If the evidence points to 4.5 billion year old earth, but the Earth is really only 6,000 years old, then you are accusing God of lying.

Science and God say the Earth is about 4.5 billion years old.
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Science says that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, but in NO way does God say the earth is 4.5 billion years old
 
buffalo said:
I do understand this issue. However, this county is founded on Judeo Christian values. God is an essential part of learning, but we leave Him out.

The message to the kids - God is not really highly regarded for we do not teach you He exists.

It is a conundrum.
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Are parents and Sunday Schools incapable of teaching about God? What of areas where the “Catholics are not Christians” style of Protestants dominate, would you want that being taught to your children in school, and being paid for with your tax dollars?

Trying to get religion into public (as opposed to private) schools has a great many problems. Easier to keep religion out of school and in the home and the church/mosque/synagogue/temple. That way every parent gets their kids taught precisely the kind of religion they want to.

rossum
 
tobinatorstark said:
Science says that the earth is 4.5 billion years old, but in NO way does God say the earth is 4.5 billion years old
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I disagree. God created the laws of the universe, such as radioactive isotopes and their decay rates. If the evidence he gave us tells us the earth is 4.5 billion years old, then that is God talking to us. And its in a way that can’t be mistranslated between languages, cultures, nor countries. Its universal.
 
rossum said:
Are parents and Sunday Schools incapable of teaching about God? What of areas where the “Catholics are not Christians” style of Protestants dominate, would you want that being taught to your children in school, and being paid for with your tax dollars?

Trying to get religion into public (as opposed to private) schools has a great many problems. Easier to keep religion out of school and in the home and the church/mosque/synagogue/temple. That way every parent gets their kids taught precisely the kind of religion they want to.

rossum
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That’s only because we humnas cannot agree on the Ultimate Truth. If we all could then there would be no problem.
 
The_Barbarian said:
Let’s see what the guys who invented it say (when they think no one else is in earshot)

**Governing Goals
Code: 
* To defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural and political legacies.
* To replace materialistic explanations with the theistic understanding that nature and hurnan beings are created by God.
**
(Wedge Document, accidentally released outside the DI)

Yep. It’s a religion, with the goal of reducing God to a size they hope to fit into public schools.

God is the Creator, not some inferior “designer.”
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Theistic evolution (TE) is a religion too [a sort of scientism?], so what if ID can be shown to be likewise?.

BUT TE is also a a “political wedge” designed to update the old Greek myth of macroevolution and make IT a part of our Catholic faith with death before Adam and Eve etc. So which is worse? ----

ID which allegedly “tries to replace materialistic explantions with the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by God” OR

MacroEvolution that brings with it the baggage of materialistic ideas: no original sin, no need for a redeemer and the promotion atheism - there is no God TE is OK to believe as long as you believe God infused a soul into an evolving creature. You then can believe in macroevolution which God used over billions of years. Thus God has been reduced to a programmer on a cosmic computer who occasionally introduces a new program or intervenes.

How simply beautiful and this “scientism type of mythology” is taught in our Catholic schools and colleges as a fact with NO opposltion. Talk about brainwashing in North Korea in the 1950’s. That is nothing compared with what is goilng on now in our Catholic schools. DUH!! 🤷

.
 
larsegarots said:
I disagree. God created the laws of the universe, such as radioactive isotopes and their decay rates. If the evidence he gave us tells us the earth is 4.5 billion years old, then that is God talking to us. And its in a way that can’t be mistranslated between languages, cultures, nor countries. Its universal.
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But C-14 dating of fossils from dinosaur bones to coal to diamonds demands that the earth is only 1000’s of years old. So what shall we believe?

(1) Unreliable radiometric dating systems that give ages of up to4.5 billion years for ancient volcanic materials and meteorites but can’t get it right for “most” known earthly volcanic events or discoveries [half lives of millions to billions of years BUT in the plasma state gives half lives in seconds and minutes]? OR

(2) C-14 dating of all fossils that can at least give a ball park figure of 1000’s of years. So maybe God is telling us to thoroughly restudy our dating methods before claiming that scripture in general and Genesis 1-11 can’t be taken in the literal sense [six 24 hour days, Adam and Eve and then the deluge of Noah’s time]. See Fr. Victor’s book on Genesis 1-11 www.kolbecenter.org

So I’ll go with that fairly good track record for C-14 and the reasoning of our church fathers and Pope St. Pius X before believing in the updated Greek mythology of macroevolution and long ages, taught as a a fact to our innocent and gullible students!

Since there is still a debate and more in-depth research is needed isn’t it therefore a lie and an injustice to teach macro-evolution as a fact??? :eek:
 
Phillipp remains convinced that you can use a candy thermometer to check a blast furnace. No matter how many times people show him that dating material millions of years old by C-14 methods will simply peg out the analysis and give the maximum possible C-14 result (tens of thousands of years or so, depending on the equipment) he’ll still deny the truth.

Ironically, it was a volcanic eruption that gave scientists the opportunity to check the longer-half-life isotopes. Dating the Pompeii material, scientists came up with an accurate date.

**Berkeley – A powerful geologic dating technique called argon-argon dating has pegged the 79 A.D. eruption of Vesuvius so precisely that it establishes one of the most solid and reliable anchors for any dating method.

With such validation, the radioactive argon dating technique now can reliably establish the age of rocks as old as the solar system or as young as 2,000 years, say researchers from the University of California at Berkeley and the Berkeley Geochronology Center.**
berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/97legacy/pompeii.html
 
Theistic evolution (TE) is a religion too [a sort of scientism?], so what if ID can be shown to be likewise?.
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Then it means that theisic evolution can’t be taught in public schools, either. And it’s not. Only the scientific theory.
BUT TE is also a a “political wedge” designed to update the old Greek myth of macroevolution and make IT a part of our Catholic faith with death before Adam and Eve etc.
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Good heavens! You’re right. So chemistry is a “political wedge” to update the old Greek myth of atoms and make IT part of our Catholic faith! How clever of you to have not been fooled by those Greek tricksters. :rolleyes:
So which is worse? ----
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Conflating theistic evolution with evolutionary theory is definitely worst, from a scientific viewpoint. But trying to cut God down to a size that will fit into the school house door is a lot worse from a Catholic viewpoint.
MacroEvolution that brings with it the baggage of materialistic ideas: no original sin, no need for a redeemer and the promotion atheism - there is no God TE is OK to believe as long as you believe God infused a soul into an evolving creature.
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Either you’re hilariously wrong, or Pope Benedict XVI never wrote that common descent was “virtually certain.”

Unless you want to accuse him of denying original sin or a need for a Redeemeer. Which is it, Phillipp?

If Catholicsm bothers you this much, why bother posting on a Catholic board?
 
According to the Catholic Church its been 2000 years since Christ and there were about 4000 years before him. So to me that points everything physical to a young earth with space being infanite just as God has always existed. I strongly agree with scientist view on this matter completely. God intended science to be for the good of man, which some stuff is. But most of science anymore is just a bunch of made up, meaningless theories. They have slowly phased out religion in schools and promoted the false evolution theory. Evolution should be banned. I am not saying that science shouldn’t be taught, but when it come to things that God has proven, I take the Church and God’s side over science any day.
 
Philipp said:
But C-14 dating of fossils from dinosaur bones to coal to diamonds demands that the earth is only 1000’s of years old. So what shall we believe? :
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C14 dating isn’t used to date dinosaur fossils or the strata they are found in or coal or diamonds. you know that. you are misrepresenting science again.
 
The_Barbarian said:
Then it means that theisic evolution can’t be taught in public schools, either. And it’s not. Only the scientific theory.

Good heavens! You’re right. So chemistry is a “political wedge” to update the old Greek myth of atoms and make IT part of our Catholic faith! How clever of you to have not been fooled by those Greek tricksters. :rolleyes:

Conflating theistic evolution with evolutionary theory is definitely worst, from a scientific viewpoint. But trying to cut God down to a size that will fit into the school house door is a lot worse from a Catholic viewpoint.

Either you’re hilariously wrong, or Pope Benedict XVI never wrote that common descent was “virtually certain.”

Unless you want to accuse him of denying original sin or a need for a Redeemeer. Which is it, Phillipp?

If Catholicsm bothers you this much, why bother posting on a Catholic board?
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Which Pope shall I believe is correct? Pope St Pius 10th who’s body had remained incorrupt as a gift from his Creator for remaining faithful to His Word or Benedict the 16th who for the moment “allegedly” accepts the adivse of the Pontifical Academy of evolutionists. The real research into the errors of evolution have only just begun.

Oh Yes, I never said Pope Benedict has denied original sin. The modernist theologians get around that knotty problem by simply saying that we can believe that God infused a soul into an evolvilng critter(s) and then they sinned. BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT GOD HAD MOSES WRITE IN SCRIPTURE SO WHY SHOULD ANYONE BELIEVE THAT TE STORY? TRUE SCIENCE SAYS OTHERWISE. AND PLEASE STOP GIVING US THAT SAME OLD BALONEY ABOUT C-14 NOT BEING VALID ABOVE 30,000 RC YEARS. YOU STILL CAN’T SEEM TO GRASP WHAT C-14 DATING HAS DONE TO THOSE LONG AGES YOU NEED FOR ET OR TE. I THINK YOU ARE IN A STATE OF COMPLETE DENIAL AS IT CHALLENGES THE NEW RELIGION OF TE.

True Catholicism is indeed wonderful like the works of St. Lawrence of Brindisi of the 16th century, St. Thomas Aquinas and the early church fathers. BUT unCatholic certain clever, modernist theologians from the late 1800’s to the present time have thoroughly corrupted the faith and have confused the faithful and the clergy alike with their attempt to marry evolutionary fairy tales to the faith of our forefathers. .

I think it is only natural therefor for those of us who believe in true science to review all the scientific claims of TE’s and the atheist variety including all the dating systems. And I, and many many other scientists are enjoying every moment of it. Time will tell how it all ends but as I said we have only begun to fight. 😛
 
rossum said:
Are parents and Sunday Schools incapable of teaching about God? What of areas where the “Catholics are not Christians” style of Protestants dominate, would you want that being taught to your children in school, and being paid for with your tax dollars?

Trying to get religion into public (as opposed to private) schools has a great many problems. Easier to keep religion out of school and in the home and the church/mosque/synagogue/temple. That way every parent gets their kids taught precisely the kind of religion they want to.

rossum
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I would like my tax dollars to follow my school choice.
 
StAnastasia said:
Where does God say it is not 4.5 billion years old?
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He never said that the earth was 4.5 billion years old, nor did he not say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Who did God physically say to how old the earth is??? He hasn’t revealed it, and it is something we really don’t even need to bother with either
 
tobinatorstark said:
He never said that the earth was 4.5 billion years old, nor did he not say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Who did God physically say to how old the earth is??? He hasn’t revealed it, and it is something we really don’t even need to bother with either
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He has revelaed it in the rocks that He made. He has revaled it in the light from the stars. He has revealed it in the moon that He made. He has revealed it in the radioactive elements that He did, and did not, place in the earth.

Just because you cannot see it does not mean that God did not reveal it.

rossum
 
tobinatorstark said:
He never said that the earth was 4.5 billion years old, nor did he not say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Who did God physically say to how old the earth is??? He hasn’t revealed it, and it is something we really don’t even need to bother with either
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Of course we need “to bother with it.” Catholics are interested in the truth, and Catholic scientists need to know the age of the earth and of the universe in order to function; in order to lay out the glories of God’s universe to our eyes.

StAnastasia
 
StAnastasia said:
Of course we need “to bother with it.” Catholics are interested in the truth, and Catholic scientists need to know the age of the earth and of the universe in order to function; in order to lay out the glories of God’s universe to our eyes.

StAnastasia
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I am most certainly interested in truth. Truth that God will reveal, not science. This is an example of putting science before God. God has given us signs of the tribulation and etc. I don’t need some scientist to tell me that the world is going to go through this at this period of time. They can’t determine that. God is only one that determines that.I try to live my life to God’s will. He reveals himself to us more and more each day. It sounds like your trying to tell me I need a scientist to tell me what God has in store for us
 
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